You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide

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You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-19 09:14:27
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Has anyone got any information on how the last patch affected Arrebati strategies. The V15 thread suggests having cor and ranger spam last stand with an abundance of agility and ranged attack buffs, but Arrebati is susceptible to fire damage. Would a setup with corsair spamming wildfire and ranger going hover/hotshot be better? And if so, what support jobs do you think are best. Tank, Ranger, Cor, Geo, Whm, are pretty set, but do you think bard or scholar would be more ideal as the 6th, and what buffs for them if so.

have your COR+RNG if using them as damage dealers get Chaos+Rogue's roll, and use Empyrean or Relic guns. RNG pop Camouflage when a proc needed, COR saving Random Deal for after those moments. With a few gear choices you're making already, and a new Ambuscade cape for midshot with +Crit Rate vs +STP, you can easily reach 90% crit rate with Rogue's Roll and Camo up...and probably still ~65-70% with it down. I gear my camo sets with less +crit rate gear in this fight simply because I'm getting the Rogue's Roll, and can swap in +Crit Damage gear.

Edit- regarding your BRD vs SCH question and buffs: BRD all the way. Honor March, Minuet 5, AGI Etude, Dirge in a 4 song setup. Add Minuet 4 in a 5 song setup, or if your COR has racc problems sacrifice a minuet (either the only one or the 2nd one depending on your songs usage) for a single Prelude.

We use PLD RNG COR BRD GEO WHM. Decoy Shot is very helpful esp if the COR has Armageddon and gets a few Tripleshot resets along the way- RNG can ride Annihilator and Coronach and not ever pull hate even without Decoy, but it is extra hate on the PLD to fight the COR.
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By SimonSes 2021-05-19 09:17:10
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I mean i only put dedition and chirich there to simulate high stp and low racc set to make a point about RNG racc.

On the other hand getting to 3000tp with barrage might be important if you for example want to get Am3 fast.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-19 09:22:23
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SimonSes said: »
I mean i only put dedition and chirich there to simulate high stp and low racc set to make a point about RNG racc.

On the other hand getting to 3000tp with barrage might be important if you for example want to get Am3 fast.

VERY true and not to be ignored. That reason is definitely the only real "need" in my book to hit 3k TP with Barrage if its a debate between stp and damage per shot.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2021-05-19 16:03:43
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Who cares if I'm at 2208TP or 2800TP after a 2 miss barrage, or more likely: who cares if I'm at 3k TP or 3k TP after a 1 miss barrage.

Not sure if you're just writing this in a way that is a little unclear (like, maybe talking about missing hit 10 of 11 and losing out on the last 2 shots), but to be sure everyone reading this understands or is reminded: Barrage does not work like a normal multi-hit WS where you can hit or miss each hit. If you miss a single Barrage shot, none of the subsequent shots will even be attempted.

For a typical AF+3 hands/550 gift RNG, Barrage will be 11 shots (increased to 12 with Quelling Bolts). If you miss on shot #3, your Barrage will only get two shots, period. That's why capping Racc has always been absolutely vital on Barrage. And at a 95% cap (99% if Sharpshot is up) x 11-12 shots, your risk of a missed shot "dropping" the rest of Barrage goes up with each shot. This is also a compelling reason to always pair Sharpshot/Barrage.

So, while I totally get it that RNG generally doesn't tend to be that worried about Racc, you really need total confidence you're fully capped on Barrage in particular. If you had a 93% or 94% hit rate, it's barely noticeable for normal shooting. It's a significantly bigger and more noticeable issue specifically for Barrage.

That's kinda why I still have that little bit of old school RNG doubt about giving up Racc for Barrage, even if I know it's probably overkill most of the time. And if I overcap Racc... /shrug, I tend not to really care that much about whether I miss out on a little bit of additional damage from Barrage itself. It's almost all about generating instant TP for me.

On a balance though, Enm- is a more interesting differentiating factor, and may be enough right there to steer people toward defaulting to Ikenga anyway. Though like I mentioned, enmity is not always that relevant. I care very little about pulling hate on, say, a Divergence wave 3 normal mob that will die right away anyway after I Barrage > WS. I would care a lot more on a difficult NM.

SimonSes said: »
Then there are also actual shooting weapons/shields if you really shooting and not just ranged WSing and Fomal can get another 30racc from augmenting. Armageddon has even more racc (37-52racc more than in above scenario) and you can also use it's bullets if you dont care about slightly lower damage. Gastra is on whole other level for Barrage accuracy too, +20-50racc on Gastra, +10racc more on ammo and +70racc from unique stat on it.

Actually, this is a great point - bolded the weapons for emphasis, and we should think about specific weapons. I mostly care about maximum Barrage hits to ensure 3000tp, specifically for Mythic/Empy AM - so this is only really a concern in the first place for Gastra, Armageddon, or Gandiva.

For Fomalhaut or Fail-Not, I don't find Aeonic AM3 very important outside of rare cases you just reeeeeealy want fast TP for Radiance/Umbra. It's pretty irrelevant for Relics or non-RMEA. So yeah, totally agreed to go Ikenga for those.

And Simon has good points about Gastra's innate Barrage accuracy boost, and Armageddon being a naturally high Racc weapon. That does help to mitigate uncapped Racc concerns. I guess Gandiva users are the ones who might have the most legitimate concern when using Barrage for AM3 maintenance purposes.

Serjero said: »
But you are right as far as Malignance vs Ikenga goes the difference looks negligible, especially @R0. Though @R20 Ikenga has a massive boost overall to R.atk and makes up 20 of the 40 R.Acc difference.

Ahhhhh... and yeah, I did make a mistake in just thinking of R0 stats. I am still in the habit of not assuming augments on Odyssey armor. Thanks for mentioning that!


Anyway, yeah, I'll concede that unless you're super anal about max Racc for AM3 purposes (I sort of am!), Ikenga seems the way to go for most Barrage use. Appreciate the thoughtful points from everyone about this (rather esoteric) use case.
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By kunami 2021-05-19 16:26:16
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Hi, I'm soliciting opinions on whether Hot Shot and Flaming Arrow are different enough weapon skills to need two separate sets.

I see on the wiki they both have different stat mods, but their ftp stuff seems the same. Happy to hear suggestions on this. On my test node I have a combined table with the two sets that people submitted earlier but I wonder if it will go the way of wildfire and need its own tables for each skill.

It looks like this for now:
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By Nocki 2021-05-19 16:30:18
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kunami said: »
Hi, I'm soliciting opinions on whether Hot Shot and Flaming Arrow are different enough weapon skills to need two separate sets.

I see on the wiki they both have different stat mods, but their ftp stuff seems the same. Happy to hear suggestions on this. On my test node I have a combined table with the two sets that people submitted earlier but I wonder if it will go the way of wildfire and need its own tables for each skill.
If I were writing the node, I would just include a note that there is a differential in stat mods and that if you want 11 ranger capes for all of the different weaponskills then that's a choice on the individual player.
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By kunami 2021-05-19 16:33:22
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I was gonna let the math guys look at that since they both use AGI but Flaming Arrow has a little 20% STR mod. Seems like you'd still use your AGI cape and not sweat it.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2021-05-19 16:42:48
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Serjero said: »
Maybe I'm just spoiled because I get to always tailor buffs to the party composition I'm running

Bingo! These princess RNGs... ;)

But for real, if you're dictating the buffs, tell the BRD to Pianissimo Prelude onto the COR and leave your damage songs alone.
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By kunami 2021-05-19 17:06:48
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Also, the next update will have a section in the Resources part for gearswaps and other handy ranger toys (like SimonSes's damage calculator.) So please submit your ideas for what you think might go in there!

Sneak peak:


It's ugly, but whatever lol
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 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-05-19 18:20:33
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For those who had posts deleted recently:

Don't post quote trains just to say stuff like, "No one's gonna read this, teehee." or any other short variation that doesn't actually contribute anything meaningful to the guide thread, thanks.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-19 20:55:43
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kunami said: »
Also, the next update will have a section in the Resources part for gearswaps and other handy ranger toys (like SimonSes's damage calculator.) So please submit your ideas for what you think might go in there!

Sneak peak:


It's ugly, but whatever lol

I do have a newer version where I've changed my tiering scheme for WSs based around amounts of +PDL vs racc, as well as creating unique toggles for melee sets, WS sets, and ranged TP sets. Newest version is on the ColdDeadHands Discord- I know its not very active for discussion but the repository of stuff is still there for luas and such, and always welcome more added. I'll get responsible and get a clean version on GitHub in the next day or two as well.
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By FaeQueenCory 2021-05-20 07:08:52
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kunami said: »
I was gonna let the math guys look at that since they both use AGI but Flaming Arrow has a little 20% STR mod. Seems like you'd still use your AGI cape and not sweat it.
They're both Hybrid, so there's also the fSTR to benefit from for both of them. (just more potent in Flaming Arrow due to the mod)

That being said... given how everything now except accessories (and even some of those) will be giving you both STR and AGI regardless... MAB and WSdmg is the stronger effects.

As for capes... Shouldn't matter. A 30STR cape would only be marginally be better than a 20AGI/10STR cape... which is only marginally better than a 30AGI cape.
(Also should use Regal instead of Ilabrat, same DEX and AGI... but has STR and Ratk.)
I am assuming buffs though. In an entirely no buffed situation (e.g. nothing is boosting your Ratk) then the STR cape would pull ahead by a fair amount more than when you actually have buffs.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-20 07:21:37
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Cele's most recent Gearswap LUA.

General concept: The addition of so much +PDL gear in the game supports the need for a new tiering of Weapon Skill sets based on the amount of +attack buffs one has, compared to in the past when +accuracy buffs mattered most.

As such, change the lua to independent toggling of melee, ranged, and WS sets rather than all 3 at once based on accuracy needs.


keybinds:

ctrl+`(left of number row)= flurry toggle. In either setting, if no flurry present it will use the +60 snapshot set.

f9= melee TP set toggle. "LowHaste" (31 dual wield), "CapHaste" (11 dual wield), "Accuracy" (a high acc 11 dw set).

f10 = Weapon Skill +PDL toggle. "None", "Half", "Full". Varies the amount of +PDL gear on ranged physical WSs so you can change as you gain more +attack buffs.

f11 = ranged TP set toggle. "LowACC", "HighACC", "Aftermath". "LowACC" set is default. "Aftermath" set to be customized by weapon used to boost ranged attack, PDL, crit rate, and crit dmg as we sacrifice STP.

alt+f12 = idle toggle. "Movement", "Town", "Regen", Magic". "Movement" is default. "Magic" is near identical to mvt set just planned around more magical than physical dmg + status attacks from range.

f12 = auto update gear, good for when locked in a set in laggy areas to try before a full lua reset, or simply to remind yourself what set you're in.

ctrl+= = DT set lock (still called PDT set in the lua because I'm lazy, but with modern gear available the sets became too similar between PDT/MDT to justify excess complexity for my tastes. Locks set for idle/melee, still changes sets for WSs at full potency- don't expect to be invincible.

I do not include weapons in my gearsets as I'm simply swapping them too much. Instead, you'll find in the lua some existing base sets such as "sets.Fomalhaut", etc that are only the common weapon combos like perun+1 and foma, malevolences and gastra, etc. Then I create a line of macros for each weapon combo using the typical "/console gs equip <setname>" format.
------------------------------------------
Its far from ideal, but I am enjoying the switch of concept to use tiers of PDL gear vs an all or nothing approach. Future cleaning up is planned, but it is fully functional and what I use right now.

The lua is more manual than most used these days- nothing wrong with things like auto detecting haste values and then applying the proper TP set, or detecting flurry 1 vs 2 instead of toggling it like I do...I just like a certain level of control. If that is what you're seeking, this may work for you. If you want clean automation of more things, there are many great options by those much more gifted in coding than me!
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By SimonSes 2021-05-20 08:00:45
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Cele's most recent Gearswap LUA.

General concept: The addition of so much +PDL gear in the game supports the need for a new tiering of Weapon Skill sets based on the amount of +attack buffs one has, compared to in the past when +accuracy buffs mattered most.

I dont think Ikenga Gloves is a good option over Meg. Gloves +2 for Coronach. 5%PDL wont beat 7%WSD in your set and Meg also has +2~7racc/+2STR/+2DEX
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-20 08:06:58
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SimonSes said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Cele's most recent Gearswap LUA.

General concept: The addition of so much +PDL gear in the game supports the need for a new tiering of Weapon Skill sets based on the amount of +attack buffs one has, compared to in the past when +accuracy buffs mattered most.

I dont think Ikenga Gloves is a good option over Meg. Gloves +2 for Coronach. 5%PDL wont beat 7%WSD in your set and Meg also has +2~7racc/+2STR/+2DEX

Its been a hard debate. I've only set them to be used in the absolute max +attack situations (The "Full" set), and only because of Anni's +10% ranged attack aftermath do I think they even compete. In a soul voice/bolster situation with Fury, Honor March, Minuet x2, Chaos Roll I've found it to be similar enough that the -enmity is appreciated. Not like hate on Anni is really ever an issue, but WS's don't Decoy.

I will try it out more when I get in that situation. I already agree that at least 99% of the time, Meg. Gloves +2 win and do so simply, and honestly, I won't be too surprised if they remain a better choice :) I just haven't had enough time on RNG to really mess around lately- I haven't even gotten to RNG at an event post-Hover Shot addition yet! OH THE HUMANITY!!!
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By SimonSes 2021-05-20 08:11:48
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In your Full PDL you have 25%WSD in your gear without gloves and 20%PDL.

7%WSD is 5.6% gain
5%PDL is 4.16% gain

Then Meg. also has higher racc/+2STR/+2AGI
Ikenga gloves wont win, even if they take full advantage od PDL.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-20 08:17:25
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SimonSes said: »
In your Full PDL you have 25%WSD in your gear without gloves and 20%PDL.

7%WSD is 5.6% gain
5%PDL is 4.16% gain

Then Meg. also has higher racc/+2STR/+2AGI
Ikenga gloves wont win, even if they take full advantage od PDL.

general question on how you've got spreadsheets computing how valuable PDL vs WSD is. As you increase PDL, the +ranged attack/attack needs to fully utilize it increase. So do you assume both scenarios have capped attack or the same attack value?

I do trust your math for the numbers you're using- I'm just wondering what value for ranged attack you're using to compare the two.
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By SimonSes 2021-05-20 08:28:20
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I havent done this in sheet. It's simple comparison. I assumed fully working PDL, so capped attack for both.

EDIT: And its specifically for Coronach, because its single hit WS. For Last Stand for example WSD only works for first hit, so 5%PDL has potential to beat 7%WSD if you have enough attack. For Coronach that potential doesn't exist. Similar situation will be for Nyame B feet rank 20 over Ikenga feet, even when that slightly lower than advantage of Meg. gloves +2 over Ikenga's gloves.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-20 08:34:01
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SimonSes said: »
I havent done this in sheet. It's simple comparison. I assumed fully working PDL, so capped attack for both.

So question- at some point that extra WSD is going to lose its punch at attack cap and stop being fully valuable, yes? So I get how you assume fully functional PDL to see if it ever is worth it, because if that answer is no, the rest becomes pretty easy. My curiosity (and I just need to get out there with some buffers and test it instead of waxing poetic) is the interaction of the diminishing returns of one compared against the growing returns of the other.

Again- your numbers are trustworthy- I just enjoy seeing how it plays out in game as I feel like I'm understanding it better vs just implementing it blindly.
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By SimonSes 2021-05-20 09:05:50
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PDL doesnt have growing returns, it has diminishing returns same as WSD. WSD never loses its "punch" except from its own diminishing returns.

To make its simpler

For one hit ws WSD is just multiplier for whole WS.
If you have 0%WSD and add 1%WSD your WS damage will raise by 1%. If you have 50%WSD and add 1%, you WS damage will raise by 0.66% (1.51/1.5)

PDL raises your pdif cap.
Your Gun pdif cap on 99RNG is 3.8
PDL in gear is % based, so it works exactly the same way as WSD in term of diminishing returns. So 1%PDL will boost your WS damage by 1% (if you cap attack) if you dont have any PDL already on you. If you have 50%PDL, adding 1% will boost your WS damage by 0.66%

So like you see for 1hit WS, WSD% in gear and PDL% in gear have the same potency and same diminishing returns. Things changes when you can also crit on that WS and its not ranged WS, but Coronach cant crit and is ranged.

PDL has higher potential for multihit WSs. Especially those that have their damage spread evenly to all hits. That's because WSD only works for first hit of the WS and PDL works for whole WS.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2021-05-20 12:02:53
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Wsd and pdl are the same more or less point for point on ws with one hit. There are two reasons why pdl is slightly more valuable when you can use it.

1. Pdl applies to all extra hits on ws
2. You have access to a lot more wsd gear comparatively
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By kunami 2021-05-20 12:31:25
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
kunami said: »
Also, the next update will have a section in the Resources part for gearswaps and other handy ranger toys (like SimonSes's damage calculator.) So please submit your ideas for what you think might go in there!

Sneak peak:


It's ugly, but whatever lol

I do have a newer version where I've changed my tiering scheme for WSs based around amounts of +PDL vs racc, as well as creating unique toggles for melee sets, WS sets, and ranged TP sets. Newest version is on the ColdDeadHands Discord- I know its not very active for discussion but the repository of stuff is still there for luas and such, and always welcome more added. I'll get responsible and get a clean version on GitHub in the next day or two as well.


Please let me know when it's back up on github, since I can't really easily link to downloadable files on discord.
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By kunami 2021-05-20 21:53:46
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Pushed a new update:

  • Added Flaming Arrow and Hot Shot sets (Demhar & Gotenn)

  • Added a section for gear swaps (Celebrindal)

  • Added a section for other handy links (SimonSes)



No one really had any other suggestions so it's a little sparse for now but I get a decent number of PMs asking for "my lua"
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By kunami 2021-05-23 09:38:45
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Added Demhar's R15 REMA video
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-23 09:49:24
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Interesting concept to remember in events like Dynamis-D, where using Hover Shot might not feel natural until wave3 NMs and bosses-

It has no penalty on our melee damage/attack speed like Velocity Shot- in many ways it can be a stance you maintain 100% of the time with no negatives. Combine this with melee attacks don't reset your stacks either, and I can't find any reason outside of needing Decoy Shot to ever not have it up.

And while stacks reset with every new target, I found myself using a very natural RNG thing to generate 2-4 stacks on Wave 3 Volte mobs (non-NM)....fire a few shots at the caster mobs while your RDMs and GEOs (or however your group handles it) silence them. You can easily get a few shots and shuffles off while reeling that BLM mob in, and then add a quick 12-16% to your Ranged WS, in this run for me Trueflight. No, its not double damage, but it is valuable.

Its not insignificant- if you said to any SAM, WAR, DRG, or DRK "hey, you wanna add 12% damage to your <insert strong WS> by just TP'ing naturally and not changing a single piece of gear" they'd sell children and puppies. Its not as easy as spinning around an NM meleeing and dropping WSs from a different spot each time, but it is a very natural thing RNGs are familiar with doing- pulling mobs. Its also safer than running away from support to melee a caster mob not yet silenced and at your camp, and easier for your support.
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By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2021-06-02 16:36:09
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Now that we've had Hovershot for a few weeks.. Has anyone been able to utilize it very much during any endgame activities?

I'm just returning from vacation, messing around soloing a few things and I find the damage to be good, tested mostly HTBF Lilith as i've done it 100s of times so I had a pretty good benchmark of my normal damage.

While the damage is good, I feel it is detrimental as a whole, due to the interrupt and the fact that I feel I don't pay as much attention to what is going on, as I'm worried about if I moved a yalm or not haha.

Just curious on anyone else's thoughts.
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 Asura.Aburaage
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By Asura.Aburaage 2021-06-02 17:16:36
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So far I've regularly used Hover shot on contents like Odyssey V15 Arebati and Gogmagog, and wave 3 dyna, I don't really feel any negative impact to my playstyle at all, after doing it over and over it kinda just become second nature after a while.
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-06-02 18:33:05
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Hover shot is a net gain on extended NM fights. Last night I ran a pair of Veng 15 Arebati's with it and the numbers were impressive. You don't have to move very far so I just went into first person view and strafed a bit. You still see the red animation from first person POV and I found it made it much easier to move and shoot.

It does have significant enmity implications though, since it doesn't stack with decoy shot. I was using fomalhaut and on our first run I ended up pulling hate at around 30% which wiped us. The second fight I took oshosi out of my double shot and wore 5/5 ikenga's instead and things went far smoother. We killed on the second run with little difficulty and hate never left the tank.
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By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2021-06-02 19:45:42
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Hover shot is a net gain on extended NM fights. Last night I ran a pair of Veng 15 Arebati's with it and the numbers were impressive. You don't have to move very far so I just went into first person view and strafed a bit. You still see the red animation from first person POV and I found it made it much easier to move and shoot.

It does have significant enmity implications though, since it doesn't stack with decoy shot. I was using fomalhaut and on our first run I ended up pulling hate at around 30% which wiped us. The second fight I took oshosi out of my double shot and wore 5/5 ikenga's instead and things went far smoother. We killed on the second run with little difficulty and hate never left the tank.

Nice note on the enmity. That was something I definitely noticed in my testing, even while using Coronach and having AM up. It was with Trust tanks, but still.

Hopefully I get to play around with it on more extended fights like W3, or atonement bosses.

Thanks for all the input, everyone.
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By Crossbones 2021-06-02 19:57:17
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I just did the lion on V15 and I use 4/5 ikenga in my midshot Am3 set and a couple pieces in my last stand set and I never pulled hate once with arma. Ranged crits hit for up to 16k and last stand was doing around 28-32k.
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