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Dev Tracker - Discussion
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-05-31 23:14:38
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Jdove said: »
I heard a rumor that is probably true. I'm not typing this to upset anyone but kinda makes me worry. Anyways the rumor is that SE wants to get rid of FFXI and dont want to maintain it anymore so nexon is going to completely take it over not just the mobile port, they are supposably gonna bring it back to consoles and reboot the game on mobile pc and console. This could be a good thing but i hope they dont just shut down the current game and reset the servers there is no link to verify anything i just said but i kind of believe it. a im sure this post is gonna blow this thread up which isnt my intention so im sorry but figured id just pass it along. Anyways i hope this doesnt happen.

This is literally trolling, and I mean no offense by that.
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By Draylo 2020-05-31 23:28:00
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No, its gonna be a new expansion to the far east
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By missdivine 2020-06-01 00:15:40
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I had a seizure by scrolling down all that wall-o-text battle from afania and simonSes
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By SimonSes 2020-06-01 01:43:11
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Afania said: »
You saying "MM is relevant" here doesn't matter much, it's not me that you need to convince, it's the potential recruits that may be interested in joining the party. If I hear tons of people saying "I'd like to lv up MM now let's team up" when I log on then I'd agree that your opinion is right. But I just dont see it.

I dont care at all if I convince anyone. It would actually be creating myself more competition, which would reduce my income. I will keep 3boxing myself 600+ scales doing easy 6M in 30 min lol.
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By Afania 2020-06-01 06:46:09
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SimonSes said: »
Afania said: »
You saying "MM is relevant" here doesn't matter much, it's not me that you need to convince, it's the potential recruits that may be interested in joining the party. If I hear tons of people saying "I'd like to lv up MM now let's team up" when I log on then I'd agree that your opinion is right. But I just dont see it.

I dont care at all if I convince anyone. It would actually be creating myself more competition, which would reduce my income. I will keep 3boxing myself 600+ scales doing easy 6M in 30 min lol.


If you dont care why do you spend 2 days arguing over and over talking useless ***? We already know the content isnt complete. Your "but.....content isnt complete" "MY PREFERENCE" argument doesn't provide new information nor address the design issue. It's just gigantic waste of time to say such thing in a design discussion.

But it's ok, I already know that you are against the grouping efficiency increase change because you dont want organized groups dumping large amount of scales to the market which may hurts soloers gil per hr, and you prefer solo. If this is the case, just FYI the price of scales are mostly depend on demand, and demand changes with new gears.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-06-01 06:57:39
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Odyssey is by far one of the best designed content in all of the game. Its only real flaw is it hasnt been updated as planned due to corona.

You must be doing a different Odyssey than the one I do.

Im doing the same one as everyone else.

The reason Odyssey is by far and away the single best piece of content SE has ever put out is simply because this is the first piece of content where you have multiple paths to the objective (farming scales).

You can go in as a party and take out fetters and mimics

You can go solo/lowman and kill mobs

You can go thf and pick locks

Odyssey is the first content in the game where you can actually dictate how you want to do the content yourself, and each route is a fairly different playstyle with different goals to get the rewards.

Odyssey is a really great baseline for updates as-is. The only valid flaw you can reasonably argue odyssey has is that its new and not fleshed out. Thats it.
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By Afania 2020-06-01 06:59:20
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missdivine said: »
I had a seizure by scrolling down all that wall-o-text battle from afania and simonSes

I almsot had a seizure when I talk to Baniak too. The guy would hunt you down and argue for hours over choice of words. Like how he doesn't like that I said the content was "bad" despite he agreed that content isnt complete lol.

What's even the difference between "bad" "incomplete" "half-assed"?. To me they indicate the same design issue with different degree of negativity in it. To Baniak the negativity difference is a more serious issue to talk about than solving the actual issue.

So the discussion never end because he rarely provides solutions to any issue that we discuss, he just argue wordings and personal preferences which will never have a conclusion.

Anyways, apologize for the wall of text, keep going having dev discussions.

Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Odyssey is by far one of the best designed content in all of the game. Its only real flaw is it hasnt been updated as planned due to corona.

You must be doing a different Odyssey than the one I do.

Im doing the same one as everyone else.

The reason Odyssey is by far and away the single best piece of content SE has ever put out is simply because this is the first piece of content where you have multiple paths to the objective (farming scales).

I think we mostly agree that "pick your path" is a good idea, we were just unhappy that thf solo keying is strongly favored which makes other path(killing, grouping) useless due to the lack of incentive. The solution is easy, just upscale reward for other playstyle. Dont know why Baniak was against it and fight endlessly.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 07:09:16
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Jdove said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Jdove said: »
I heard a rumor that is probably true. I'm not typing this to upset anyone but kinda makes me worry. Anyways the rumor is that SE wants to get rid of FFXI and dont want to maintain it anymore so nexon is going to completely take it over not just the mobile port, they are supposably gonna bring it back to consoles and reboot the game on mobile pc and console. This could be a good thing but i hope they dont just shut down the current game and reset the servers there is no link to verify anything i just said but i kind of believe it. a im sure this post is gonna blow this thread up which isnt my intention so im sorry but figured id just pass it along. Anyways i hope this doesnt happen.

This is literally trolling, and I mean no offense by that.
No it isnt just cuz its not something you wanna hear, someone actually told me this last night they said they saw it somewhere in Vana'consenus only reason i mentioned it is because if you think of it from a business stand point it would make total sense.Like i said i couldnt find the specific article to verify it either but it is something to keep in mind.

You mentioned a rumor you "heard"
Said it's "probably true"
Don't mention your source, just some random person who "told this to you"
Said you "believe it"

I don't care if it's true or not, because I have no hard feelings invested into this game. But it's trolling unless you can verify whether it's true because people have been throwing out rumors since day 1 of FFXI and it is meaningless to debate unless someone can post proof of it.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 07:33:55
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SimonSes said: »
Afania said: »
You saying "MM is relevant" here doesn't matter much, it's not me that you need to convince, it's the potential recruits that may be interested in joining the party. If I hear tons of people saying "I'd like to lv up MM now let's team up" when I log on then I'd agree that your opinion is right. But I just dont see it.

I dont care at all if I convince anyone. It would actually be creating myself more competition, which would reduce my income. I will keep 3boxing myself 600+ scales doing easy 6M in 30 min lol.

Simon, you have been doing a lot of digital flexing with this Odyssey. It's corny.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-06-01 07:40:55
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Afania said: »
I think we mostly agree that "pick your path" is a good idea, we were just unhappy that thf solo keying is strongly favored which makes other path(killing, grouping) useless due to the lack of incentive. The solution is easy, just upscale reward for other playstyle. Dont know why Baniak was against it and fight endlessly.

I wouldnt say its strongly favored. Its more like the easiest entry. Lately ive been getting mimic spammed, and unless you box or take an alt, its very easy to end a run because of a mimic.

A job that can 1tap mobs can just as easily kill out trash and get similar results without nearly as much RNG.
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By Asura.Briko 2020-06-01 07:50:40
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My dad works for nintendo, I can say eith 100% certainty that ffxi will be getting a full pc reboot.
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By Afania 2020-06-01 08:00:33
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Afania said: »
I think we mostly agree that "pick your path" is a good idea, we were just unhappy that thf solo keying is strongly favored which makes other path(killing, grouping) useless due to the lack of incentive. The solution is easy, just upscale reward for other playstyle. Dont know why Baniak was against it and fight endlessly.

I wouldnt say its strongly favored. Its more like the easiest entry. Lately ive been getting mimic spammed, and unless you box or take an alt, its very easy to end a run because of a mimic.

A job that can 1tap mobs can just as easily kill out trash and get similar results without nearly as much RNG.

I think you need jobs like cor at high end gear killing ***none stop to get that kind of scale count. So the gil investment difference is huge.

Also another guy who claim to have thf+whm mule that only does tractor can avg 300 scales and spike 420. If I am going to go in with 2 characters on another not thf job, such as cor, I pretty much need 2 cors both killing ***none stop to get that kind of scale. Its both more expensive to build and tougher to duobox than thf that way.

Finally scale farm certainly doesn't favor grouping, a party not running at max efficiency or have less than ideal people are likely get less scale than thf solo after split, and a top end group only get 2x which makes grouping not really worth it.

I still see the scale distribution between different setup unbalanced no matter how I look at it. And honestly I'm sick and tired trying to reply to all the "but content is fine" people who are clearly biased in this issue. So unless someone can prove that ALL path can reach similar reward:efford ratio as thf keying in terms of skill, gear and time investment requirement, I prefer not to keep repeating my points about this.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-01 08:26:39
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Is ffxi your job Afania? You cant simply understand that people like the gameplay options in Odyssey and you are solely judging the event from optimal farming perspective. I play for fun and if I spend half my time in this game farming gils, I like this time to not be lazy routine that gives me headache doing it over and over again. Thats why creating content that gives access to new farming methods with various gameplay is great. You are looking only at optimal way to farm scales with lowest possible investment, but what if you dont like MGS gameplay? You will still do it over and over and over because its the simplest efficient way to farm scales? I mix farming scales in several different ways and it doesnt make me tired this way. I mix it with doing Omen from time to time and Dynamis. That way I can have fun even while farming. If you cant appriciate getting new gameplay options, because you feel the need to always be optimal, then maybe we should talk about YOUR PREFERENCES, not mine lol I only want variety, so stuff wont get me bored and tired of routine. Also you talking out of your *** that i dont want group farming to be more efficient because im worried about my gils. Rofl.. I would have same benefits from that because my 3boxing would be more efficient. Not to mention I have 5 different events like delve, shiva, vagary, Omen, Ambuscade that I can esily do for gils. I dont have time to do even half of them. I only choose to do Odyssey, because I like the gameplay, not because its most efficient from the list above.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-06-01 08:29:53
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
The reason Odyssey is by far and away the single best piece of content SE has ever put out is simply because this is the first piece of content where you have multiple paths to the objective (farming scales).

I wholeheartedly disagree. Sky and Limbus take the top for me. Couldn't care less about multiple paths really. As the event sits right now in an incomplete state, it's ***. IMO this is the worst they've done.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 08:39:43
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If they had filled the entire event with a ton of rewards (like upgrades up to 135 gear, direct drops from bosses and unique NEW gear), would the event be good or bad? Serious question.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-01 08:42:28
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Afania said: »
What's even the difference between "bad" "incomplete" "half-assed"?.

The difference is super *** huge.

If you get demo of the game and you are told its demo of first act, you also say stuff like "this game is tto short, doesnt have good finish, character development is inconplete, there is lack of end game" etc.?

I think not because that would be really stupid. We basically got demo of Odyssey, first act.

If you would got full game that looks like demo and you would be told that game is finished, then you can complain that half assed.

Incomplete has totally 2 different meaning in those two examples.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-01 08:44:09
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If they had filled the entire event with a ton of rewards (like upgrades up to 135 gear, direct drops from bosses and unique NEW gear), would the event be good or bad? Serious question.

It wouls be the best event ever for them. Super popular, worth event slot and they would do it with popcorn even if they dont like the gameplay lol.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 09:05:05
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I have not argued that Odyssey is bad content, just that its incomplete and the rewards are whack. People are ignoring the fact that Covid happened and judging it as incomplete. Functionally, Odyssey is actually a good event. The ONLY thing people are truly upset with is the drops, which I can understand. Myself included. It gets boring once you finish RPing your goals. If everything in Omen dropped in Odyssey instead from random NMs, people would not have an issue with it.

Rewards make the content entirely.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-06-01 09:05:50
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If they had filled the entire event with a ton of rewards (like upgrades up to 135 gear, direct drops from bosses and unique NEW gear), would the event be good or bad? Serious question.

It would add substance like I mentioned was missing before. As Odyssey sits right now, you can bypass it entirely and still reap the benefits of getting R15 gear. Every other event in FFXI has forced you to do it to some degree, this does not. If you add new r/e gear, you've now made the event worth doing. There's nothing wrong with the event itself, it's just pointless as it sits currently.
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2020-06-01 09:35:39
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Done Ody with top-tier LS mates a few times.

Fell back on creating mule THFs to key farm instead because of attrition.
1) People eventually get weary once the novelty of the content is over;
2) Monthly campaigns change group priorities;
3) People have little incentive to keep farming because of the limited amount of useful Unity gear which can be augmented. Very disappointed that there has been no advancement to upgrade harder content Unity gear;
4) Ambuscade VD has been the same easy content for the past 2 months. For top tier players, this means Ambu is a great source of income from sellables and mercing.

Meanwhile, mule THFs can be poorly geared to just open chests. If I am bored, I can send fodder mule THFs to key farm chests. Only my full Malignance characters are capable of defeating mimics. When on top-tier THF, fighting mimics are not time effective with trust magic. Malignance helps with stun resistance so I can 1) engage, 2) turn to allow the trust tank and whm to get hate, 3) run away and logout, 4) log back in and call trusts again.

When Ody incentives change and more higher-tiered Unity gear becomes available, maybe it will be worthwhile to group farm with LS members again.

PS @ Afania,
Hey LS sis, you are always welcome to team-up with me and other LS members if you want to try a group run. I believe we both have top-tier CORs. We could do COR army overkill with Celebrindal. Cele is a top-tier pun tosser who incidentally has a top-tier COR too.
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-06-01 09:48:08
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Afania said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Afania said: »
I think we mostly agree that "pick your path" is a good idea, we were just unhappy that thf solo keying is strongly favored which makes other path(killing, grouping) useless due to the lack of incentive. The solution is easy, just upscale reward for other playstyle. Dont know why Baniak was against it and fight endlessly.

I wouldnt say its strongly favored. Its more like the easiest entry. Lately ive been getting mimic spammed, and unless you box or take an alt, its very easy to end a run because of a mimic.

A job that can 1tap mobs can just as easily kill out trash and get similar results without nearly as much RNG.

I think you need jobs like cor at high end gear killing ***none stop to get that kind of scale count. So the gil investment difference is huge.

Also another guy who claim to have thf+whm mule that only does tractor can avg 300 scales and spike 420. If I am going to go in with 2 characters on another not thf job, such as cor, I pretty much need 2 cors both killing ***none stop to get that kind of scale. Its both more expensive to build and tougher to duobox than thf that way.

Finally scale farm certainly doesn't favor grouping, a party not running at max efficiency or have less than ideal people are likely get less scale than thf solo after split, and a top end group only get 2x which makes grouping not really worth it.

I still see the scale distribution between different setup unbalanced no matter how I look at it. And honestly I'm sick and tired trying to reply to all the "but content is fine" people who are clearly biased in this issue. So unless someone can prove that ALL path can reach similar reward:efford ratio as thf keying in terms of skill, gear and time investment requirement, I prefer not to keep repeating my points about this.

If youre doing it as a full group youre killing fetters/mimics and getting individual pool items. I would agree having the items drop per player would be an improvement, but it sounds a lot more like your complaints are largely coming from trying to do lowman farming as a group as opposed to what you do as a group.
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-06-01 09:51:24
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
The reason Odyssey is by far and away the single best piece of content SE has ever put out is simply because this is the first piece of content where you have multiple paths to the objective (farming scales).

I wholeheartedly disagree. Sky and Limbus take the top for me. Couldn't care less about multiple paths really. As the event sits right now in an incomplete state, it's ***. IMO this is the worst they've done.

The worst thing theyve done was sky and HNMs. They *** those up ten ways to sunday to the point where RMTs and RMT linkshells ruled everything for years and you couldnt get to do the content there without their permission or beating them in claiming (which, good luck doing when they can claim before the mob spawned at the time)
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-06-01 09:54:29
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I have not argued that Odyssey is bad content, just that its incomplete and the rewards are whack. People are ignoring the fact that Covid happened and judging it as incomplete. Functionally, Odyssey is actually a good event. The ONLY thing people are truly upset with is the drops, which I can understand. Myself included. It gets boring once you finish RPing your goals. If everything in Omen dropped in Odyssey instead from random NMs, people would not have an issue with it.

Rewards make the content entirely.

I mean, while i agree covid definitely hindered their odyssey update plans as this was clearly a base, multiple pieces of BiS gear comes from odyssey. Theres more than enough incentive to do it until you finish the 5 or so items you need at least, unless you just buy everything.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-06-01 09:59:52
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
The worst thing theyve done was sky and HNMs. They *** those up ten ways to sunday to the point where RMTs and RMT linkshells ruled everything for years and you couldnt get to do the content there without their permission or beating them in claiming (which, good luck doing when they can claim before the mob spawned at the time)

Funny, we had no issues with Sky and the RMT. Ya they were there, but they couldn't claim anything worth a ***. In fact, I traded an RMT a linkpearl for 100k and immediately broke it. I did this 3 times until he wizened up. If anything, they helped us find what windows were open because they'd hang out there.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 10:04:16
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If they had filled the entire event with a ton of rewards (like upgrades up to 135 gear, direct drops from bosses and unique NEW gear), would the event be good or bad? Serious question.

It would add substance like I mentioned was missing before. As Odyssey sits right now, you can bypass it entirely and still reap the benefits of getting R15 gear. Every other event in FFXI has forced you to do it to some degree, this does not. If you add new r/e gear, you've now made the event worth doing. There's nothing wrong with the event itself, it's just pointless as it sits currently.

With all due respect Fire, that's not "substance". What you are really saying is "I dont actually have to do this content, i can enter once and buy everything and do something better with my time". Which is true and I agree with. How is that different from Dynamis D? The content does not have any real flaws, as even you mentioned. But it is being juxtaposed against completed content with rewards that make it desirable beyond the novelty of launch. I will admit it is frustrating to keep doing it because it offers nothing long term (yet). Just like doing coalitions initially were duumb. And Mog Gardens were dumb. And Deeds were dumb. And then they said "we are not finished" and everyone raged that they put something so good behind shitty content. Now you have good content with nothing amazing put behind it, and people still complain that its shitty content? Which one is it? The original ambuscade weapons were "pointless" to make, and now they are some of the best items available. Holding onto those old pulse weapons were sure a dumb idea, and then they flipped the ***into overnight sensations.

You never know what they will do with something until you wait and see. This is coming from someone who agrees with everything you said.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-06-01 10:22:16
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Maybe I'm just lumping gear rewards with substance. The event is the bowl, and the equipment is flour and sugar. I really have no issue with the event itself, just as it sits right now, it's pointless. I get that it's not complete, and I'm not against doing it in the future, I just don't understand why some posters here are praising it like sliced bread when it's in such an incomplete state.

For what it's worth, I despise Dyna D, but I'll keep doing it to support our linkshell. Aside from the occasional Volte drop, I don't have a good opinion on it. I'm not working on any RPs, and we have our W3 clears, so aside from making gil, it doesn't serve me any purpose.
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-01 10:22:50
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
The worst thing theyve done was sky and HNMs. They *** those up ten ways to sunday to the point where RMTs and RMT linkshells ruled everything for years and you couldnt get to do the content there without their permission or beating them in claiming (which, good luck doing when they can claim before the mob spawned at the time)

Funny, we had no issues with Sky and the RMT. Ya they were there, but they couldn't claim anything worth a ***. In fact, I traded an RMT a linkpearl for 100k and immediately broke it. I did this 3 times until he wizened up. If anything, they helped us find what windows were open because they'd hang out there.

Pandemonium (yeah long time ago) had a really solid system for Sky that I recall...we are talking 10ish year ago! But I definitely dont' recall being gated by content from Sky- I remember having blocks of time depending on what shell you were in, and your membership being able to grow.

There's nothing wrong with having some of your game's content being behind timed drops. All? yeah that would be a problem of course. And the era of Kings was clearly a design made by someone who hadn't made an online game before. Let's not forget that XI was SE's first foray into an MMO- mistakes and growing pains were bound to happen.

If you don't vary some of your gear acquisition methods, they all end up being versions of Omen and boil down to just shopping lists to farm over time. That burns people out.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-01 10:41:48
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Maybe I'm just lumping gear rewards with substance. The event is the bowl, and the equipment is flour and sugar. I really have no issue with the event itself, just as it sits right now, it's pointless. I get that it's not complete, and I'm not against doing it in the future, I just don't understand why some posters here are praising it like sliced bread when it's in such an incomplete state.

For what it's worth, I despise Dyna D, but I'll keep doing it to support our linkshell. Aside from the occasional Volte drop, I don't have a good opinion on it. I'm not working on any RPs, and we have our W3 clears, so aside from making gil, it doesn't serve me any purpose.

The only person praising it was Simon, but he was talking about it solely from a content perspective separate from rewards, where it comes to strategy based objectives and how a player can accomplish those goals. The system is designed for everyone so nobody has reason to complain that they CAN'T do it. That was all. As far as rewards go, it's a salient point but that has nothing to do with the way the content is designed.

The argument of attrition comes up because once you are done with scales, you wood be done with the event entirely, until the next patch. Which is why I feel like they should have implemented the rewards phase differently. The fact that you can buy scales faster than you can get a KI and repeat the content is only going to encourage people to skip the content and race to the finish, which is what a lot of people did. And those same people are going to be all up in the Odyssey thread later on asking "how do I level my MM up?"
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By Afania 2020-06-01 10:47:29
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Wow ***Baniak, after *** 5 pages your perception of this debate is still stuck on 1st page.

SimonSes said: »
Afania said: »
What's even the difference between "bad" "incomplete" "half-assed"?.

The difference is super *** huge.

If you get demo of the game and you are told its demo of first act, you also say stuff like "this game is tto short, doesnt have good finish, character development is inconplete, there is lack of end game" etc.?

No, if I get a demo of a game, I won't say "the game isnt done so its a bad game".

However if 1 class of the game thats obviously overpowered, I'm going to say "hey dev, you have this mage class that's way stronger than warrior and thief, please fix it.

I dont need to see a complete game to notice this issue. It has nothing to do with length of the game, it's a design issue.

Odyssey is the exact same deal. They designed a content with 7 levels with increasing difficulty, multiple NMs to kill, mimics to pop and kill. Its utterly obvious that these things are meant to be killed by taking a different path such as grouping up or using a stronger DD job instead of THF. If the game is dessigned to be solo or keying only, they wouldn't put this many NM in game.

But for now, THF keying path obviously requires less investment and yields greater reward than straight killing mobs/NM/fetter/mimic. This is unbalanced.

It doesn't matter if next 2 parts arent out. This balance issue exists in the 1st part, so idk why you repeatly made the "there are more contents to come" argument. We are commenting on the 1st part. I said nothing about 2nd nor 3rd part.

You repeatedly cited omen as an example. But omen never has such design issue when it was out, players enter and killed NM like how NMs should be killed. So idk why do you keep arguing points that doesn't address the issue.

SimonSes said: »
Is ffxi your job Afania? You cant simply understand that people like the gameplay options in Odyssey and you are solely judging the event from optimal farming perspective.

I am judging the event from game design perspective. it's not about MY preference, I dont even farm gil much lol. You are the only person who repeatly play the "my preference is this" card here.

Honestly, why are you still posting if you are not interested in discussing design issues? I'm not interested in discussing personal preferences, nor I ask dev to remove your preference from the content. But I had to repeatly reply your "but my preferences is this" comment which is just a waste of time.

Just because you like farming in Odyssey, doesn't mean it has no design issues. Just stop already.
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