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DT; MDT ; MDB
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2017-07-01 13:28:02
For general use however thinking of MDB+100 as 50% damage reduction over base mDEF is easier.
And it's wrong on any boss you fight due to them having MAB and skewing the results. That was only true back at 75 when only BLM or RDM monsters had MAB, but anything 120+ usually has some and the places where your actually "tanking" most definitely has a Matk higher then 100.
So with a monster having 300 MAB, you 0 MDB and nuking you for 2000 damage... now adding 100 MDB and taking 1000 damage (which is 50% reduction) is not in fact 50%?
By clearlyamule 2017-07-01 14:15:16
Rule 1 of determine the effects 1 a variable... don't change other variables. This whole comparing increases in mab to mdb to determine what mdb doesn't work simply because of that.
And I know it isn't explicitly being stated as changing but that's what you are doing when you actually plug it into the formula as you are effectively comparing it to a change from 1. Same as if you plugged in any of the other multipliers. Would be like saying mdt only works half as much if mob has +100 mab which is silly unless you really meant to say something much more like you'd take the same dmg as you would've with a mob without mab with half as much mdt (keeping all other variables the same)
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 521
By Odin.Geriond 2017-07-01 14:23:00
For general use however thinking of MDB+100 as 50% damage reduction over base mDEF is easier.
And it's wrong on any boss you fight due to them having MAB and skewing the results. That was only true back at 75 when only BLM or RDM monsters had MAB, but anything 120+ usually has some and the places where your actually "tanking" most definitely has a Matk higher then 100. Mob MAB does not skew the results because they're independant variables, and thus do not effect each other. The amount of MAB a mob has has absolutely zero effect on the percentage decrease in damage MDB grants you. Changing the MDB term from 1 (100/100 MDEF) to 0.5 (100/200 MDEF) reduces damage taken by half no matter if the MAB term is 1, 10, or 100.
Actually compare 0 MDB and 100 MDB situations in the formula and you'll find that the amount of MAB you choose doesn't affect the percentage difference at all, as is required by the rules of arithmetic.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,281
By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-01 16:41:05
Troll dealt with.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,492
By Asura.Pergatory 2017-07-03 12:39:28
This discussion happens every few months and there are always people who try to claim that the value of caster MAB and target MDB are somehow related to each other.
A total of +100 MDB will always cut your magic damage taken in half, no matter how much MAB the caster has.
A total of +100 MAB will always double the damage of your spell, no matter how much MDB the target has.
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-03 12:45:13
Mr. "Click, problem solved!" strikes again.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,281
By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-03 14:28:25
A total of +100 MDB will always cut your magic damage taken in half, no matter how much MAB the caster has.
No it won't. Doubling your MDEF will cut the magic you take in half, going from 0 to 100 MDB just happens to double the 100 MDEF you start with. Idiots like to pretend we're still at 75. Same goes for Magic Attack.
50 MAB, 50 MDB
150/150 = 1.0
+100 MDB
150/250 = 0.6
+150 MDB
150/300 = 0.5
I keep hammering this because we don't start with 0 MDB anymore, iLevel and gifts have changed our starting MDB. Barspells and a few other buffs / vorseals / ect.. can further add to MDEF. In an extreme example, a Master RUN starts out with 78 MDB for a MDEF of 178. It would talk another 178 MDEF to "reduce the magic damage by 50%". We don't go around saying dumb ***like "adding 100 defense reduces the damage you take by half" even though it would, if you only had 100 defense. The exact reduction of any amount of MDB would depend on how much MATK and MDEF was already present.
Mr. "Click, problem solved!" strikes again.
I have it on very good authority that person was deliberately trying to troll me and brag to their friends about it. Best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them permanently.
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2017-07-03 14:45:12
A total of +100 MDB will always cut your magic damage taken in half, no matter how much MAB the caster has.
No it won't. Doubling your MDEF will cut the magic you take in half, going from 0 to 100 MDB just happens to double the 100 MDEF you start with. Idiots just like to pretend we're still at 75.
50 MAB, 50 MDB
150/150 = 1.0
+100 MDB
150/250 = 0.6
+150 MDB
150/300 = 0.5
I keep hammering this because we don't start with 0 MDB anymore, iLevel and gifts have changed our starting MDB. Barspells and a few other buffs / vorseals / ect.. can further add to MDEF. In an extreme example, a Master RUN starts out with 78 MDB for a MDEF of 178. It would talk another 178 MDEF to "reduce the magic damage by 50%". We don't go around saying dumb ***like "adding 100 defense reduces the damage you take by half" even though it would, if you only had 100 defense.
Mr. "Click, problem solved!" strikes again.
I have it on very good authority that person was deliberately trying to troll me and brag to their friends about it. Best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them permanently.
No one was saying arbitrarily adding 100 MDB to any number. The original claim was that MDT reduces what you gain from MDB. Which was wrong. And then some numbers were shown to show why.
Then you came in saying things like high MAB skews results. Which is also wrong.
We are explicitly talking about being at +100 MDB from neutral.
Yes, RUN has +78 MDB (50 gift, 22 trait). We are not talking about adding 100 to that. It would be adding 22 to that to make 100.
But even then with your example of RUN, if it remains unchanged at 78 MDB (e.g. not adding through gear, lost through malaise, etc.) it will always reduce damage by ~44% compared to a character with 0 MDB. Whether the enemy has 0 MAB, 175 MAB, or 10,000 MDB.
Not sure how you don't understand this.
By clearlyamule 2017-07-03 15:09:05
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Not sure how you don't understand this. It's Saveal. Once he's typed something the best you can hope for is the small back pedal he's already done
Carbuncle.Stiltz
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2017-07-03 15:39:33
Ask him about his thoughts on the " May 10th summoner nerfs".
Necro Bump Detected!
[2777 days between previous and next post]
Asura.Oraine
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Asura.Oraine 2025-02-08 11:27:29
sorry for the necro bump. but pld emp gear has 5% absorb rate on both magical and physical damage when wearing all 5 pieces right? does the other 5% from say warder's necklace +1 or tarutaru platemail stack with this to make magic 10% chance?
Cerberus.Dekar
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 275
By Cerberus.Dekar 2025-02-08 11:56:38
sorry for the necro bump. but pld emp gear has 5% absorb rate on both magical and physical damage when wearing all 5 pieces right? does the other 5% from say warder's necklace +1 or tarutaru platemail stack with this to make magic 10% chance?
Some pieces of "absorb XXX damage" do stack while other do not. Here's some of the testing that I did a while back:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46016/first-and-final-line-of-defense-v20/137/#3682264
The big ones that don't stack together:
1) Warder's Charm, Engulfer Cape, and Tartarus Platemail.
2) WKR capes and Abyssea Satchets (maybe Zanhi Ring too?).
Asura.Oraine
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Asura.Oraine 2025-02-08 12:20:25
okay i checked the link out, but it didnt answer my question. ill do some testing and find out! ^ ^
edit: upon scrolling further down and reading i found your test lol im sorry for that!
Concerning only magic damage;
Ok, as far as I understand it, DT is all damage taken, and -DT reduces damage taken, except for B.S. special cases, which also includes breath. MDT is magic damage taken, and -MDT reduces all magic damage, except breath. So, MDB is factored into the (100 + Magic Attack Bonus)/(100 + Magic Defense Bonus) ratio, and as far as we know, has no cap. DT + MDT caps at 50, with the exception of DT II and MDT II. MDB, however, can be added to -50 DT and MDT to increase magic defense up to a possible uncapped level.
Did I get this right?
So, first cap DT at -50, and if you can't get -50, then add MDT to reach 50. Once you reach 50, then stack on MDB. Is this a good strategy to protect against magic damage?
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