Tachi: Ageha's Additional Effect

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2022-11-10
329 users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Tachi: Ageha's Additional Effect
Tachi: Ageha's Additional Effect
Offline
Posts: 2442
By eliroo 2017-06-02 10:21:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Those actually aren't bad or difficult skill chains to make.

Full Break is weaker than Armor Break though. Do we know if Full break is its own ID similar to dia or does it overwrite other defense down effects?

If the accuracy rate goes up it will make Bravura a really nice weapon option for WAR (Though it already is for tanking purposes)
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-02 10:35:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Just tried landing Ageha on Maju and forgot he has crazy evasion. Missed every WS. Not a practical test subject. Was nice wasting 3 sushis and eating backdraft.

Going to attempt a VD Ambuscade
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-02 10:40:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The effect is "Defense Down", the same as Angon, Acid Bolts and various BLU spells. It blocks some moves like Cocoon but is blocked by others like Harden Shell.

Armor Break is Impaction which makes it extremely awkward for Great Axe SC's, if there was a Liquifcation WS then it could be used to make fusion but ultimately it's just not worth it. Full Break is Distortion and ideally positioned for the opening part of a multi-step, makes it more useful. Full Break applies multiple effects, though they are individually weaker, each is it's own element and gets it's own resistance check.

I use Bravura a lot on the Omen MB's and part of that is sometimes tossing out Break WS's and the effects are really hit and miss. I can see them being removed when it does sphere but it's super random if they land or not so I've stopped bothering.
[+]
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-02 10:43:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Just tried landing Ageha on Maju and forgot he has crazy evasion. Missed every WS. Not a practical test subject. Was nice wasting 3 sushis and eating backdraft.

Going to attempt a VD Ambuscade

Just test on higher level Apex mobs, they are FAR easier and more reliable subjects. Apex Bats in Outer are level 134~136, Inner is 137~139.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47586/apex-camps/4/#3241505

Plenty of mobs to check against and see the scaling.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-02 10:45:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Saevel said: »
The effect is "Defense Down", the same as Angon, Acid Bolts and various BLU spells. It blocks some moves like Cocoon but is blocked by others like Harden Shell.

Are you sure about this? Ageha Additional Effect (I'm assuming it landed, it was 3000 TP) was overwritten by an Eruca's Cocoon.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-02 10:45:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Just tried landing Ageha on Maju and forgot he has crazy evasion. Missed every WS. Not a practical test subject. Was nice wasting 3 sushis and eating backdraft.

Going to attempt a VD Ambuscade

Just test on higher level Apex mobs, they are FAR easier and more reliable subjects. Apex Bats in Outer are level 134~136, Inner is 137~139.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47586/apex-camps/4/#3241505

Plenty of mobs to check against and see the scaling.

This is my next spot
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-02 11:40:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
The effect is "Defense Down", the same as Angon, Acid Bolts and various BLU spells. It blocks some moves like Cocoon but is blocked by others like Harden Shell.

Are you sure about this? Ageha Additional Effect (I'm assuming it landed, it was 3000 TP) was overwritten by an Eruca's Cocoon.


That doesn't work. You can't take an assumption as proof.

CPing on Eurucas a BLU's Tenebral Crush (-20% defense down) overwrites the defense down and prevents it from being reapplied. Armor break does the same thing, though I need more testing to be 100% certain. Yet Harden Shell will always overwrite defense down effects and prevent then from landing. We see the same thing with regards to Haste and Slow effects of there being different tiers.
 Bismarck.Rwolf
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Rwolf
Posts: 148
By Bismarck.Rwolf 2017-06-02 12:04:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Someone brought this up on the Official Forums a few weeks ago. Link It got a response that the accuracy is pretty low. Seems coincidental it ended up in the update. I wouldn't be surprised if the update was only going to fix Ageha. Though, hopefully it's for a lot of them.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-02 12:41:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Thanks for linking that thread. I never knew it existed, as I don't visit the OF often. Kind of coincidental indeed. If nothing else, that Dev's response seemed to indicate they will indeed increase it.
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-03 02:19:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Talk:Tachi:_Ageha
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 04:28:49
Link | Quote | Reply
 
bumping incase anywone done any tests yet? i'll hopefully give it a go soon when i got time
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 06:47:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
initial tests,
-ichihohitofuri, full Flamma armor+1, rest of the armor is magic acc equalling about +53 m_acc,
-mob is apex aruca
-technique is using the check function
-Trusts: AAEV, Yoran,moogle,
-Party: 1 geo using indi haste and geo torpor

if mob doesn't check low defence , then considered not to have defence down, checking all eruca's near by while engaged reveils they all DON"T check low defence so can be considered a attack in the middle range.

If mob has high defence after using cocoon then is considered not to have defence down.

ageha is only used when defence doesn't say low damage

TP between 1200-1700 = check 8/8 to have low defence,
TP between 2000+ but below 3000 = 1/1 to have low defence
tp @ 3000 = 2/2 to have low defence
Test has been done with cocoon active as well, after using ageha at all stages, broke cocoon's high defence and replaced with defence down.
when cocoon is used again, it replaces defence down again, so they over write each other
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 07:03:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Horu said: »
initial tests,
-ichihohitofuri, full Flamma armor+1, rest of the armor is magic acc equalling about +53 m_acc,
-mob is apex aruca
-technique is using the check function
-Trusts: AAEV, Yoran,moogle,
-Party: 1 geo using indi haste and geo torpor

if mob doesn't check low defence , then considered not to have defence down, checking all eruca's near by while engaged reveils they all DON"T check low defence so can be considered a attack in the middle range.

If mob has high defence after using cocoon then is considered not to have defence down.

ageha is only used when defence doesn't say low damage

TP between 1200-1700 = check 8/8 to have low defence,
TP between 2000+ but below 3000 = 1/1 to have low defence
tp @ 3000 = 2/2 to have low defence
Test has been done with cocoon active as well, after using ageha at all stages, broke cocoon's high defence and replaced with defence down.
when cocoon is used again, it replaces defence down again, so they over write each other
secondary test,all conditions same as before, except all magic acc gear is removed fully,
TP 1000-1700 = 14/14 to have low defence
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 07:06:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I think i need to test against mobs in Moh's gates since their level is higher
Offline
Posts: 2442
By eliroo 2017-06-07 07:22:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Horu said: »
Odin.Horu said: »
initial tests,
-ichihohitofuri, full Flamma armor+1, rest of the armor is magic acc equalling about +53 m_acc,
-mob is apex aruca
-technique is using the check function
-Trusts: AAEV, Yoran,moogle,
-Party: 1 geo using indi haste and geo torpor

if mob doesn't check low defence , then considered not to have defence down, checking all eruca's near by while engaged reveils they all DON"T check low defence so can be considered a attack in the middle range.

If mob has high defence after using cocoon then is considered not to have defence down.

ageha is only used when defence doesn't say low damage

TP between 1200-1700 = check 8/8 to have low defence,
TP between 2000+ but below 3000 = 1/1 to have low defence
tp @ 3000 = 2/2 to have low defence
Test has been done with cocoon active as well, after using ageha at all stages, broke cocoon's high defence and replaced with defence down.
when cocoon is used again, it replaces defence down again, so they over write each other
secondary test,all conditions same as before, except all magic acc gear is removed fully,
TP 1000-1700 = 14/14 to have low defence

100%? Wow
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 07:24:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The quantity of mobs are too low, so can't be 100%, however does indicate atleast extremely high amount of acc
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 07:33:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Horu said: »
Odin.Horu said: »
initial tests,
-ichihohitofuri, full Flamma armor+1, rest of the armor is magic acc equalling about +53 m_acc,
-mob is apex aruca
-technique is using the check function
-Trusts: AAEV, Yoran,moogle,
-Party: 1 geo using indi haste and geo torpor

if mob doesn't check low defence , then considered not to have defence down, checking all eruca's near by while engaged reveils they all DON"T check low defence so can be considered a attack in the middle range.

If mob has high defence after using cocoon then is considered not to have defence down.

ageha is only used when defence doesn't say low damage

TP between 1200-1700 = check 8/8 to have low defence,
TP between 2000+ but below 3000 = 1/1 to have low defence
tp @ 3000 = 2/2 to have low defence
Test has been done with cocoon active as well, after using ageha at all stages, broke cocoon's high defence and replaced with defence down.
when cocoon is used again, it replaces defence down again, so they over write each other
secondary test,all conditions same as before, except all magic acc gear is removed fully,
TP 1000-1700 = 14/14 to have low defence
Third test, as a bit of a speed run, wasn't tested at a higher rate because gotta wait for mob to put up its defence up with water wall.
3 tests with magic acc as stated before and 3 tests with no magic acc gear equiped as stated above, with the exception of zone/mob, all other conditions are the same except the mob naturally checks high defence.Mob is replaced with Apex jagil (Marj #4 -> Woh's gate)
in all instances, 6/6 (3/3 w M acc gear+ 3/3 w/o M acc gear) all ageha's landed.

Conclusion: atleast against mobs level 130 or below, the acc of the additional effect is 95% (depending what ever acc cap there might be).
I have yet to test duration tho, so if you exclude duration thought in resist, its might be possible to hit 99-100% depending on the systems works.however until tests are done on the duration, it can be presumed to be extremely high acc
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-07 07:34:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Test against apex pugils in Woh gates or apex bats in Outer Raz, those are both very high level mobs so should give a good feel for if it's a viable tactic on big game.
[+]
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 07:59:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
tested duration, apex Jagil using my non magic set as before, and all conditions as third test, except stoped meleeing to lower mob putting defence up, after 6 tests, 1000,1200,1300,1500, and last 2 between 1200-1700.
all the times that tachi ageha didn't miss (Forgot torpor at start) 6/6 times defence down landed, 6/6 times 3 min duration
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-07 08:08:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Apex Jagil in Woh Gates right not Doh Gates? Those are different levels so just for clarification.
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-07 08:55:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
as i wrote in my post before that one, Woh's gate taking marj #4 warp
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-07 09:06:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I'll get to testing some of this when I can - been busy at work.

Last page already shows that mobs in the 120~ range are fine as far as land rate, even pre-update. I'd imagine anyone with a half-decent macc build with an appropriate weapon can proc additional effect on any 120~ mob, assuming they are magical/wind resistant. We just need a solid set of tests on some bosses 130+. Looking forward to all of you SAMs using this in Omen.

Quote:
Test has been done with cocoon active as well, after using ageha at all stages, broke cocoon's high defence and replaced with defence down.
when cocoon is used again, it replaces defence down again, so they over write each other

Thanks for stating this. I thought this was happening but I didn't bother to keep checking it frequently. Good to know.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: camaroz
Posts: 362
By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2017-06-07 21:27:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Pretty sure this is good enough to 140, this with Trusts Yoran,Ulmia, Joachim,Koru Selh'teus. If you want any further testing let me now.

[+]
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-08 03:30:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Thanks for stating this. I thought this was happening but I didn't bother to keep checking it frequently. Good to know.
I found pugils water wall defence broke as well, so i presume it'll break most mobs defence if they have defence up, having said that of cause there are probably different kinds that resist as well

Leviathan.Nitenichi said: »
Pretty sure this is good enough to 140, this with Trusts Yoran,Ulmia, Joachim,Koru Selh'teus. If you want any further testing let me now.


Whats the addon for getting a mobs level?, that'd come in use alot
 Valefor.Maurauc
Online
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Maurauc
Posts: 117
By Valefor.Maurauc 2017-06-08 04:05:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Battlemod reports mob levels.
(The level is actually what the server tells the client, and the client interprets that as TW/EP/T/VT/IT)
 Odin.Horu
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: stratusx
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-06-08 04:25:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
thanks
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-08 09:07:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Was doing apex jagil last night. 130 mobs. Never resisted* once. Used check method.

139 screenshot above should be enough to prove the land rate is insanely high now and certainly worth using, especially for omen bosses since they remove debuffs. Assuming they don't have insane meva, this update made warrior with gaxe and gkt pretty amazing. The former being even more deadly.
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8945
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-08 09:20:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Assuming they don't have insane meva, this update made warrior with gaxe and gkt pretty amazing. The former being even more deadly.

King's Justice -> Full Break -> Upheaval -> King's Justice -> Upheaval / Ukko's Fury.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-06-08 09:48:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Wow. Guess I should make a rema gaxe next.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: camaroz
Posts: 362
By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2017-06-08 10:57:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Tachi: Ageha > Tachi: Enpi > Tachi: Enpi > Tachi: Kasha > Tachi: Shoha > Tachi: Fudo

Should rip anything up from a Sam perspective.
[+]
Log in to post.