WoC Post February Update

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WoC post february update
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By Perdi 2017-04-08 21:35:48
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You need job points not just for the categories, it's also for the gifts giving you a boatload of accuracy both flat out and in +Summoning Magic Skill form. WoC still does have a relatively high accuracy requirement especially for a non max geared SMN.

That being said, if the gear you advised is what someone is looking to use then they definitely need close to max job points to meet that accuracy requirement. The bonus 106 Avatar Accuracy+ from gifts and 95 accuracy from your categories will go a long way to ensuring you have enough damage to kill it before he uses any 1 hr ability.
 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-04-08 22:25:42
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Perdi said: »
You need job points not just for the categories, it's also for the gifts giving you a boatload of accuracy both flat out and in +Summoning Magic Skill form. WoC still does have a relatively high accuracy requirement especially for a non max geared SMN.

That being said, if the gear you advised is what someone is looking to use then they definitely need close to max job points to meet that accuracy requirement. The bonus 106 Avatar Accuracy+ from gifts and 95 accuracy from your categories will go a long way to ensuring you have enough damage to kill it before he uses any 1 hr ability.


accuracy can be made up via redmage doing distract3 and using shiromochi. accuracy isn't as big an issue for smn. my post was simply baseline what i'd consider useable for burning most t4 mobs in escha.
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By Perdi 2017-04-09 00:23:33
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The minute you add in a red mage, you also add hp to the NM since health scales with party size. Yes, there are ways to boost damage further but changing the party composition comes at a cost.

If you are trying to say that a SMN with only 420 Job Points, all in Astral Flow + Astral Conduit, using the gear you suggested is sufficient for burning WoC + Escha T4s then I wholeheartedly disagree. At that point you are better off making a Melee DD party for kills.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-09 07:45:20
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I thought the conclusion was that nothing scales below 6 last time this was brought up? Is the threshold different in ruaun?

SMN definitely getting a nerf though, it's blatantly OP and even the hardcore SMNs are finally admitting you don't need amazing gear to pull it off.
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By Asura.Frod 2017-04-09 09:44:09
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Perdi said: »
The minute you add in a red mage, you also add hp to the NM since health scales with party size. Yes, there are ways to boost damage further but changing the party composition comes at a cost.

If you are trying to say that a SMN with only 420 Job Points, all in Astral Flow + Astral Conduit, using the gear you suggested is sufficient for burning WoC + Escha T4s then I wholeheartedly disagree. At that point you are better off making a Melee DD party for kills.


Solo burning? hahno. i'd expect 3 decent smns with af/ac capped and the gear i listed to be able to do WoC with a run, geo and rdm, cor prebuff. maybe need more but just throwing extra smns will scale.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I thought the conclusion was that nothing scales below 6 last time this was brought up? Is the threshold different in ruaun?

SMN definitely getting a nerf though, it's blatantly OP and even the hardcore SMNs are finally admitting you don't need amazing gear to pull it off.



threshold is 6.

competent gear is a surprising challenge for alot.

Until we hear directly from SE about it, stop whining.
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By Perdi 2017-04-09 10:26:15
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I have killed WoC 3 times now in a 3 man party consisting of GEO + RUN + SMN.

Gear definitely isn't the most important factor when SMN burning things at this point. Knowing how to get the most out of 30 seconds by locking your set, not being afflicted (yourself or your avatar) by debuffs when popping and just general ability speed plays a bigger role. There are a bunch of Nirvana and apogee+1 smn's that fall behind Was +average geared ones just because they make mistakes.

idk how you go from overvaluing gear requirements for SMN burning NMs to now undervaluing it along with job points.

AFAIK Wrathare HP scales down to a party of 3, I figured all HELMs would follow suit. Is that not the case?
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-09 11:33:22
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Escha Zitah NM's and Ruan definitely scale down to 3, Reisen feels like it scales to 3. I've dual boxed a ***load of these and you can easily tell the difference between 3 and 6 real party members.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-09 11:37:50
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I thought the conclusion was that nothing scales below 6 last time this was brought up? Is the threshold different in ruaun?

SMN definitely getting a nerf though, it's blatantly OP and even the hardcore SMNs are finally admitting you don't need amazing gear to pull it off.

It's the BST situation all over again. Whenever a mechanical exploit enables the hardest content to be rendered laughably easy, it's by definition broken and will eventually be fixed. I hope the fix isn't too radical because job and strategic diversity is good for a healthy game.
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 Fenrir.Sathicus
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By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-04-09 12:33:03
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I'm still salty about how they handled BST.

Okay, fine, make it impossible for hordes of shitty 2 cent BSTs to faceroll all content. I'm fine with that, it's better for me too.

But making it so that, depending on mob model size and pet choice, I can't solo with my pet 180 degrees apart? Depending on pet choice and mob model size I can't even solo with my pet 90 degrees apart?

That ***is ridiculous. It's not a content balance, it's not helping anyone, it was clearly not even thought through properly. You want us to be meleeing with our pets? I'm good with that, let's do it. But as it is? It's nonsense.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-09 14:48:00
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Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
That ***is ridiculous. It's not a content balance, it's not helping anyone, it was clearly not even thought through properly. You want us to be meleeing with our pets? I'm good with that, let's do it. But as it is? It's nonsense.

I think they modeled it using the smaller regular monsters instead of the big NM's we typically face. Then again I believe this comes down to a fundamental difference of opinion between the players and the developers. None of the jobs in FFXI are supposed to solo, SE designed this game to be extremely group orientated. It just happens that certain jobs are better at soloing then others, and due to game mechanics pet jobs are at the very top of that list. Because of SE's originally neglect to game balance players grew to expect pet jobs to be "solo everything" and then get pissed when they can't. The big problem with BST's, and now with SMN's, is they could burn things don't while staying in complete safety. Now having a "safe" strategy is perfectly fine, as long as there is some sort of trade off like much longer kill times. With BST's and now SMN's, they ended up being both the safest and the fastest way to kill everything. There are Merc LS's changing a few million gil to get someone an Aenoic and it takes a few hours because they just use a group of SMN's to burn every single NM down.
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2017-04-09 15:37:31
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HP don't scale below 6 participants in Escha, for lvl 135~150 NMs at least. For instance, a NM like Shockmaw has 350k~ HP with 3~6 participants while WoC has 1,2m~ HP with 3~6 participants.

Perdi said: »
I have killed WoC 3 times now in a 3 man party consisting of GEO + RUN + SMN.
Was your RUN DD'ing WoC? With the same setup + outside COR WoC was at 38% when Conduit wore off, we got it down to 19% but our RUN was just tanking.
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By Perdi 2017-04-09 21:07:46
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The RUN was DDing yes. After 2x apogee + conduit WoC was around 12-15%hp. It then took an extra minute or so to finish off. Not safe by any means considering 1hr's possibly instantly ending the attempt so we just did it for fun. Buffs were simply 2x Crooked Cards Beast/Drachen roll @ 11 with +7 roll neck and Akamochi +1 for food. Used Garland of Bliss on WoC for whatever that def down is worth.

Two SMNs with gear makes it a complete wash though.

As far as my info on HP scaling, I simply eye balled Wrathare Wild Carrot heals on my initial attempt with 6 people and then again with only 3. It healed 35k~ as opposed to 70k~. Perhaps I had more than 6 people in my first run though I can't say for certain anymore.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-09 21:57:57
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Next time I do a round of lower tier escha NM's I'll keep track of exact damage values and not overkill them, should be pretty easy to tell HP at 3 people vs 6.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-04-13 13:58:20
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Perdi said: »
As far as my info on HP scaling, I simply eye balled Wrathare Wild Carrot heals on my initial attempt with 6 people and then again with only 3. It healed 35k~ as opposed to 70k~. Perhaps I had more than 6 people in my first run though I can't say for certain anymore.
Wild Carrot doesn't heal based on a percentage of HP.

I've seen Wrathare Wild Carrot for 35k and then for 70k in the very same fight. I'm assuming it's based on how much TP the rabbit has, or maybe it gets stronger as his HP gets lower. Who knows.
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-04-13 15:08:02
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
Perdi said: »
As far as my info on HP scaling, I simply eye balled Wrathare Wild Carrot heals on my initial attempt with 6 people and then again with only 3. It healed 35k~ as opposed to 70k~. Perhaps I had more than 6 people in my first run though I can't say for certain anymore.
Wild Carrot doesn't heal based on a percentage of HP.

I've seen Wrathare Wild Carrot for 35k and then for 70k in the very same fight. I'm assuming it's based on how much TP the rabbit has, or maybe it gets stronger as his HP gets lower. Who knows.

The HP healed from Wild Carrot is directly proportional to the years of Sandorian Carrots fed to the White and Black Coneys in Ule Range back in the day for Selene's Bow.
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