High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA

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High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 08:24:08
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It does work that way. If you have a ratio of 3.75, your first roll will be between 3.375 and 3.75 followed by the roll between 1 and 1.05

If you have a ratio of 4.125, your first roll is 3.75 to 3.75 followed by the one between 1 and 1.05.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-05 08:42:57
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I know for a fact that is wrong, the UL and LL portion is above and below the actual cRatio, that's why there is a + and - attached to it.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 08:55:12
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then i suppose you need to let everyone that did the pdif testing that and update the wiki you've been linking since forever.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 08:55:43
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https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/PDIF

this one
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-05 10:24:57
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What you said is not what the wiki says and is not what testing has shown. What you are trying to say is that you can overpower LCF with attack buffs, which was shown to be false over a decade ago when SE changed the attack formula. Now LCF is rarely applied yet the underlying mechanics are still there, attack ratio is capped prior to bonus / penalty randomization.

cRatio / wRatio is not the same as pDiff and qRatio is where your attack/defense gets capped.

Quote:
2H qRatio caps at 3.75 for non-crits and 4.75 for crits

wRatio is

Quote:
If you critical hit: wRatio = (cRatio + 1)
If you do not critical hit: wRatio = (cRatio + 0)

UL is

Quote:
wRatio + 0.375

LL is

Quote:
wRatio - 0.375

Quote:
2. Randomly select a value between LL and UL

Quote:
3. Multiply the final value by a random number between 1 and 1.05


All you did is read the top entry without understanding how they got to that top entry and thought effective cap was the actual ratio cap. Effective cap is just the higher pDiff you can possibly get, not the highest ratio needed to get that.

At 3.75 ratio, which is having 3.75x the attack as the enemies defense. No level correction so cRatio of 3.75, not a crit so wRatio of 3.75.

UL is 3.75 + 0.375 = 4.125
UL is 3.75 - 0.375 = 3.375


That is where 4.125 comes from, it's what happens when you are at the 3.75 ratio cap and roll high on the random roll.

Thusl, a player with 9999 attack vs a target with 1000 defense would be.

9999/1000 = 9.999 Ratio, qRatio caps at 3.75. wRatio is 3.75 as this isn't a crit and there is no level correction.

UL = 3.75+0.375
LL = 3.75-0.375

A player with 3750 attack and a monster with 1000 defense.

3750/1000 = 3.75 Ratio, qRatio caps at 3.75. wRatio is 3.75 as no crit and no level correction.

UL = 3.75+0.375
LL = 3.75-0.375

Same place with 3750 attack against a monster with 1000 defense but does a crit.

3750/1000 = 3.75 Ratio, qRatio caps at 3.75, wRatio is 4.75 as there is a crit and no level correction.

UL = 4.75+0.375
LL = 4.75-0.375
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 14:02:32
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on mobile so i'm not going to quote and show you where you're wrong. your ratio caps at 4.125 for 2H. from there you determine if you crit or not then use that number to determine upper and lower limits. then you take a random number between the lower and upper (which at capped attack is 3.75 for both) then multiply by a random number between 1 and 1.05.

you need to re read that link especially since you link it all the time
 Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2017-10-05 14:09:11
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What is LCF? I can't seem to find what the acronym stands for. My apologies. :(
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 14:10:38
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level correction function which doesn't apply to anything relevant
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 14:17:09
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9999 attack vs 1000 defense

cratio of 9.9999
non crit so wratio is also 9.9999

so my upper currently is 10.374 and lower is 9.624

but since qratio caps at 3.75 my upper and lower are both 3.75

now we take a random number between upper and lower, has to be 3.75 now since it's the same

then multiply by random number between 1 and 1.05


so to get your q ratio lower to the max, you need a c ratio of 4.125.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-10-05 15:23:20
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
so to get your q ratio lower to the max, you need a c ratio of 4.125.

WTF...

Are you applying attack twice? Once it's used to determine qRatio it's done with. The random value is a penalty / bonus added to the actual ratio and not to the cap. The 3.75 cap happens before that random value is done, it's been that way since SE redid the attack formulas after the 2H update.

Again there is a reason these have different names, you seem to be trying to find the pDiffMin / pDiffMax and treating it as the actual attack cap, but it's not. The attack cap is the value that is used first and the rest is just a bonus or penalty added to that value.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-05 16:33:27
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
Well I dont paste it because it literally will help no one, since I doubt you have my augs haha. Just delete that line or make your own augged file with the same name. It's pretty strait forward.

I Just prefer not having an extra 100+ lines in all my jobs luas, better to keep it all in one place and not worry. I am all about not replicating code if need be. Plus the way I have it when I update that include file I dont have to update 24 others luas :D just a bit less work on my never ending path of getting perfect augs from oseem.

Just wanted to see the format as an example of how one is built. I'll google it. I'm sure there's an augment file out there somewhere that I can use as a sample.
Thanks again for everyone's replies.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-05 17:04:05
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
so to get your q ratio lower to the max, you need a c ratio of 4.125.

WTF...

Are you applying attack twice? Once it's used to determine qRatio it's done with. The random value is a penalty / bonus added to the actual ratio and not to the cap. The 3.75 cap happens before that random value is done, it's been that way since SE redid the attack formulas after the 2H update.

Again there is a reason these have different names, you seem to be trying to find the pDiffMin / pDiffMax and treating it as the actual attack cap, but it's not. The attack cap is the value that is used first and the rest is just a bonus or penalty added to that value.
Sorry, Can you dumb this down a bit more lol I get the point, but not the details. I'll read back and see if I can get the specifics but just had a real WTF is he talking about moment
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-05 17:08:08
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holy *** *** that guy is retarded. let him be wrong. the first *** section mentions the effective cap of your attack/defense ratio
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-10-05 23:36:01
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
holy *** *** that guy is retarded. let him be wrong. the first *** section mentions the effective cap of your attack/defense ratio
Something something reverse engineered the game years back or some ***.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-06 14:03:09
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To bring this back around to actual High End Gear,

1. I noticed on your Great Sword Quad Attack set that you use Odyssean Cuisses in the Legs slot. The DA on those tops out at 7% even with Fern Stone, yes? So why them over the AF+3 with 10%DA?

2. Why Odyssean Gauntlets with 5%DA over Sulevia+2 with 6%DA?

Thanks.
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-10-06 14:31:24
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Bahamut.Witchbane said: »
To bring this back around to actual High End Gear,

1. I noticed on your Great Sword Quad Attack set that you use Odyssean Cuisses in the Legs slot. The DA on those tops out at 7% even with Fern Stone, yes? So why them over the AF+3 with 10%DA?

2. Why Odyssean Gauntlets with 5%DA over Sulevia+2 with 6%DA?

Thanks.

Bold & underlined for you.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-06 14:49:57
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yes it come down to double attack = 2 and quad attack = 4, or when an attack round goes off if a DA procs you get 2 hits, but if a QA procs you get 4.

To curb the question of, "how do you get them", its a DM aug and lucky for us a few days away from a Dark Matter campaign!

It's not saying a QA set is the best, I actually rarely will use a QA set unless I know ill be amnesia the whole dang fight which can happen.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-06 15:42:09
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Bahamut.Witchbane said: »
To bring this back around to actual High End Gear,

1. I noticed on your Great Sword Quad Attack set that you use Odyssean Cuisses in the Legs slot. The DA on those tops out at 7% even with Fern Stone, yes? So why them over the AF+3 with 10%DA?

2. Why Odyssean Gauntlets with 5%DA over Sulevia+2 with 6%DA?

Thanks.

Bold & underlined for you.

Nowhere on the base gear, nor on the augment section on Oseem, does it mention Quad Attack, but thank you for your really helpful reply.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-06 15:42:46
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
yes it come down to double attack = 2 and quad attack = 4, or when an attack round goes off if a DA procs you get 2 hits, but if a QA procs you get 4.

To curb the question of, "how do you get them", its a DM aug and lucky for us a few days away from a Dark Matter campaign!

It's not saying a QA set is the best, I actually rarely will use a QA set unless I know ill be amnesia the whole dang fight which can happen.

Ah, so Odyssean can get QA augments from DM.
Thank you.
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-10-06 15:50:04
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It mentions Quad attack in the actual Item set.

Edit: And simple math would tell you that he has or is estimating at 3% an augment piece.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-06 16:18:12
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
It mentions Quad attack in the actual Item set.

Edit: And simple math would tell you that he has or is estimating at 3% an augment piece.
What set? lol I'm lost on what item set you are talking about can you link it plz
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-10-06 16:22:17
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Page one of this guide/thread. It's under his Greatsword section.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-06 20:51:51
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
It mentions Quad attack in the actual Item set.

Edit: And simple math would tell you that he has or is estimating at 3% an augment piece.

You're still simply an ***.
 Bahamut.Witchbane
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By Bahamut.Witchbane 2017-10-06 20:53:04
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Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
It mentions Quad attack in the actual Item set.

Edit: And simple math would tell you that he has or is estimating at 3% an augment piece.
What set? lol I'm lost on what item set you are talking about can you link it plz

Brotherhood, it's this set from the first page, 2nd post.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/348476
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-10-06 21:15:57
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Bahamut.Witchbane said: »
Bismarck.Gippali said: »
It mentions Quad attack in the actual Item set.

Edit: And simple math would tell you that he has or is estimating at 3% an augment piece.

You're still simply an ***.

Orrrrrr you just can't read. I'm leaning towards that one.

Edit: you would prob get much better results with a DA build as Aza said. With very little augment gear either. Besides an aug'd Val body, you can push 50+ w/ few RNG Oseem items.

Edit Edit: Quad builds can be costly as well.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-06 22:32:55
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So that set is honestly 6 month+ old I havent even revisited in that long.

It was fun to mess around with because I have 3 QA DM aug on legs/hands and DID have 2 QA on body but late night augging caused me to overwrite it which hurt kinda. So it "was" at 15 QA for awhile (using windbuffet when LR up) which seems really cool until you realize you drop -1 on your xhit AND you can basically push 45DA in a regular 5hit anyhow.

It is a very fun set to watch you calad AM3 work magic though, each attack round is pulling on avg like 6k dmg if you are to round it off in a perfect QA set which is crazy costly.

Technically though with a perfect QA set your at 22 QA, 24 DA which would produce some pretty great white dmg, heck it "could" be the best set too but theres like no one who owns it yet that I know personally. It should though be top set, but the issue is you will probably lack acc due to how luck is on DM augs, you will also also be under haste cap when no LR active AND dropping a x-hit may just make all the QA a wash in real play.
 Odin.Geriond
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-10-06 23:57:40
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
so to get your q ratio lower to the max, you need a c ratio of 4.125.

WTF...

Are you applying attack twice? Once it's used to determine qRatio it's done with. The random value is a penalty / bonus added to the actual ratio and not to the cap. The 3.75 cap happens before that random value is done, it's been that way since SE redid the attack formulas after the 2H update.

Again there is a reason these have different names, you seem to be trying to find the pDiffMin / pDiffMax and treating it as the actual attack cap, but it's not. The attack cap is the value that is used first and the rest is just a bonus or penalty added to that value.

After SE raised the PDIF caps in the semi-recent update, SE made the caps apply after the lower and upper ranges were calculated. When you have capped attack with a 2 hander, before the 1-1.05 randomizer, your lower bound and your higher bound are both capped to 3.75, and are thus equal.

At cRatio = 3.375, your upper limit qRatio hits 3.75, and thus is capped. As you continue to increase your cRatio past 3.375, your upper qRatio stays at 3.75, while your lower qRatio continues to rise until it also caps at 3.75, which happens at a cRatio if 4.125.

At that point, your qRatio is now 3.75, as the upper limit and lower limit are now equal, and the only damage variance (other than crits) is the 5% randomizer, making it 3.75-3.9375.

The PDIF page got abandoned halfway through updating it for the recent-ish patch, so don't take it as gospel.
 Leviathan.Vedder
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By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-10-07 01:53:38
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What are the actual Augs you have on each piece btw Aza?

I've got a few decent ones but leg slot is tough call with it being a large spot to get stp, and then there Sulevia's/af+3
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-10-07 02:04:51
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Not sure if you just ment in general or on QA stuff, heres a snippet from my aug file, its not 100% up to date but should be more or less what your after.
[+]
 Asura.Arnan
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By Asura.Arnan 2017-10-07 04:32:24
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Thought I'd share my Lua here since I just backed it up on pastebin and its pretty much complete. Its a heavily modified version of Bokura's https://pastebin.com/Fu2p8b9h
[+]
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