Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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By Trigue 2019-02-10 11:59:10
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A set for Sanguine Blade was posted on page 42 :]
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By Aerix 2019-02-10 14:07:31
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Boshi said: »
Trigue said: »
No one really mentions Volte gear, most likely due to it's rarity to obtain, but wouldn't this set be optimal for enspell tp?
(STP +10 on cape, Path D on legs)
ItemSet 365012

the hand still won't beat volte.

I don't see how the legs win unless you're super low on acc, nothing changed. Before using Carmine legs unless you need acc sucked, they still do.

The set posted has an 11-12 hit build with/without SAM roll and TP overflow does nothing for Sanguine Blade's damage. So aside from Subtle Blow, Volte hands give you no actual damage bonus over Ayanmo+2's boost to white damage.

Same deal with Volte Harness vs. Ayanmo body+2 (DA+7), although if you are using Kaja Knife over Malevolence for the lower Delay, then you actually do need a bit of extra STP to get the next tier of your x-hit build if you don't have SAM roll up.

DW cape/Taeon legs might actually be better than Carmine legs if you don't need the Accuracy, but remember we were only stacking Accuracy so we could use MAB food in most content.

Also that set isn't capped on gear Haste (only 24%). You need Taeon Head or Volte legs to cap. Without Volte Legs it's also 1 STP short of an 11-hit build.
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By Aerix 2019-02-10 14:14:44
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If we're going for full BiS with Volte gear, this is imo the best we can get:

ItemSet 365022

DW+10 on cape, Kaja Knife/its upgrade in offhand slot for minimum Delay. This is a 11-hit build without SAM roll and 10-hit (or lower) with SAM roll. And it has capped gear Haste.

You could argue it would be worth swapping Ayanmo Hands+2 for Volte and use Hetairoi Ring over Chirich+1, but you'd be losing Enspell damage, Subtle Blow and Accuracy for TA damage+5 and TA+2% which is slightly devalued due to diminishing returns from having Temper II. If the numbers from a few pages back are correct, Ayanmo hands+2 add +150ish Enspell damage per proc on their own. Even the slightly increased WS frequency/Attack numbers from TA+2% wouldn't beat that additional white damage.

Edit: I actually miscalculated slightly with the Kaja Knife. Malevolence has an 11-hit build without SAM roll, while Kaja is short 2 STP. I updated the build to include Malevolence instead. Second Chirich+1 is also 1 STP over, so I replaced it with Petrov Ring. Alternatively, you could also use Rajas Ring for slightly more STR/DEX and to nearly cap Subtle Blow I, which can be situationally useful, but you lose Double Attack+1%. As devalued as it may be due to Temper II, it's still a boost to DPS compared to Subtle Blow.

Ilabrat is also an option for more HP/Accuracy/Attack (just for white damage), but I think with Crocea and Volte we're already in a good spot regarding HP and the rest is negligible.
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By SimonSes 2019-02-10 14:35:50
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Aerix said: »
If we're going for full BiS with Volte gear, this is imo the best we can get:

ItemSet 365022

DW+10 on cape, Kaja Knife/its upgrade in offhand slot for minimum Delay. This is a 11-hit build without SAM roll and 10-hit with SAM roll. And it has capped gear Haste.

You could argue it would be worth swapping Ayanmo Hands+2 for Volte and use Hetairoi Ring over Chirich+1, but you'd be losing Enspell damage, Subtle Blow and Accuracy for TA damage+5 and TA+2% which is slightly devalued due to diminishing returns from having Temper II. If the numbers from a few pages back are correct, Ayanmo hands+2 add +150ish Enspell damage per proc on their own. Even the slightly increased WS frequency/Attack numbers from TA+2% wouldn't beat that additional white damage.

Just wondering, what stp you count in as Samurai roll? Because it looks kinda low if it only takes that build from 11hit to 10 hit.

Most people would consider +68 as minimum those days (some even 72). If you are lucky it goes to +78-82 and it's very often preferable roll for CC, so it can go even up to 81-98 range.
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By Carbuncle.Wireman 2019-02-10 15:08:09
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Ruaumoko said: »


Probably my best solo (with trusts, granted) to date. Was a hell of a fight since I had to deal with dumb Trust AI and had to move Maju away from them so Backdraft wouldn't complicate things.

The Saboteur update has done freaking wonders.


Saw ya die at 1% and him despawned, we were cheering you on tho. RR and ya would have got it!
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By Aerix 2019-02-10 15:15:28
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I'm really just taking any bonus from SAM roll into account as an example since there's a lot of variance. But yes, it would definitely go even lower than that. I edited my previous post for clarity.
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By Ruaumoko 2019-02-10 15:56:54
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Carbuncle.Wireman said: »
Ruaumoko said: »


Probably my best solo (with trusts, granted) to date. Was a hell of a fight since I had to deal with dumb Trust AI and had to move Maju away from them so Backdraft wouldn't complicate things.

The Saboteur update has done freaking wonders.


Saw ya die at 1% and him despawned, we were cheering you on tho. RR and ya would have got it!
Trial and error!

Came back later, revised the strategy and beat him. Won’t deny it was a hard battle though!
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2019-02-10 17:20:18
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Can anyone speak to the macc boost of Saboteur now? I'm curious how potent it is. If it's on the scale of Elemental Seal or even a fraction of that, it'd be huge. If it's just like +10 macc, it's nice but meh.
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By Ruaumoko 2019-02-10 17:27:30
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Can anyone speak to the macc boost of Saboteur now? I'm curious how potent it is. If it's on the scale of Elemental Seal or even a fraction of that, it'd be huge. If it's just like +10 macc, it's nice but meh.
Knowing SE it probably mirrors the physical accuracy increase of +70. Unverified of course but it could be that
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By DanielH 2019-02-10 18:42:39
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Ruaumoko said: »
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Can anyone speak to the macc boost of Saboteur now? I'm curious how potent it is. If it's on the scale of Elemental Seal or even a fraction of that, it'd be huge. If it's just like +10 macc, it's nice but meh.
Knowing SE it probably mirrors the physical accuracy increase of +70. Unverified of course but it could be that
Wouldn't it be +50? Since you get 20 ACC from JP. So if it was uniform it'd be +90 with the Saboteur JP 50+40.
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2019-02-10 19:04:07
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Just wanna confirm this before I buy the belt but I see that Orpheus's Sash is in the sets on this page for Enspell TP builds. Does the sash in fact boost spike damage?
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By DanielH 2019-02-10 19:15:18
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Bahamut.Agerine said: »
Just wanna confirm this before I buy the belt but I see that Orpheus's Sash is in the sets on this page for Enspell TP builds. Does the sash in fact boost spike damage?

Works on Elemental Magic, Magic Weaponskills and Enspells, not sure of anything else.
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2019-02-10 19:56:53
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Bahamut.Agerine said: »
Just wanna confirm this before I buy the belt but I see that Orpheus's Sash is in the sets on this page for Enspell TP builds. Does the sash in fact boost spike damage?

You're talking about Blaze/ice/shock spikes damage?
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By Aerix 2019-02-10 20:55:23
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I made a small mistake regarding the STP needed for Kaja Knife--and to keep the 11-hit build intact, I updated the previous set to use Malevolence instead, in case anybody cares.

And this should be a more realistic Enspell TP set without Volte (because getting 2 relevant pieces is super rare) that doesn't go too crazy on Accuracy:

ItemSet 365035

Kaja Knife offhand; should be exactly a 13-hit build before rolls. I don't particularly like using Taeon pieces other than the legs, but the hat is necessary to cap gear Haste.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-10 21:56:05
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Anyone have an equation for calculating enfeebling magic duration?

The BG Wiki page works if I do gear or if I do saboteur, but the calculation gets off by large amounts if I do both.

Case in point.
Slow 2: 2 Merits, 20 JP in enfeebling duration
Casting naked I get exactly 3:20 for duration.
Casting with Relic +2 Hat I get exactly 3:40 for duration
Casting with Relic +2 Hat + Kishar Ring I get exactly 4:00
Casting naked with sabo I get 6:20 for duration
Casting with Relic +2 Hat + Kishar Ring + NQ Torque +1 rank 1 + Sabo I get 7:45 for duration (expected duration 7:39 or 7:40).
Casting with Leth. +1 hands and all gear duration 8:12 (expected ?)

What am I doing wrong?
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-02-11 01:36:43
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
What am I doing wrong?
Well mostly nothing though I'm going to assume since some of yours observed numbers are off by 1-2 seconds you were going by chat log.

I'm the one that added that info to the wiki a few months ago before we had augmented enfeebling duration. I also never fully had tested the RDM Relic pieces interactions. I've updated the formula on the wiki now.



As noted Dia III becomes way off. I never nailed down wtf was going on with it but it's not the first time SE has f'ed RDM math up. This time it's way in our favor so I never reported it like I did with the Gain line of spells. They fixed that problem but at the same decided to turn Composure back to the way it had been years ago. I'm guess they had screwed up years ago and noticed the mistake when I pointed out Gain spells interacting with it differently.

Edit:
After looking at my old Saboteur Dia III data and doing few more test with my augmented Rank 20 Neck. I think I cracked it:
((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount]) + (RDM JPs x Saboteur)) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)

This doesn't look like they messed up but instead gave it a very different formula on purpose.

I'll mess with it more some other time.
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By Beatrica 2019-02-11 05:59:02
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the sets i see don't seems to use magic accuary, now enspell accuary is based on magic accuary in ure meele set, if u use too much gear that doesnt boost magic accuary ure enspell dmg will drop a lot on more difficult Content, so if u go for that, Carmine boots are Pretty bad, teaon as well, jhakri Slops prob better than Volte tights as well u Need a haste belt though, that orpheus belt any good? +1-15 ele dmg, how does it work?
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-11 06:08:49
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
What am I doing wrong?
Well mostly nothing though I'm going to assume since some of yours observed numbers are off by 1-2 seconds you were going by chat log.

I'm the one that added that info to the wiki a few months ago before we had augmented enfeebling duration. I also never fully had tested the RDM Relic pieces interactions. I've updated the formula on the wiki now.



As noted Dia III becomes way off. I never nailed down wtf was going on with it but it's not the first time SE has f'ed RDM math up. This time it's way in our favor so I never reported it like I did with the Gain line of spells. They fixed that problem but at the same decided to turn Composure back to the way it had been years ago. I'm guess they had screwed up years ago and noticed the mistake when I pointed out Gain spells interacting with it differently.

Edit:
After looking at my old Saboteur Dia III data and doing few more test with my augmented Rank 20 Neck. I think I cracked it:
((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount]) + (RDM JPs x Saboteur)) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)

This doesn't look like they messed up but instead gave it a very different formula on purpose.

I'll mess with it more some other time.

I'm really confused by the last time. Does the +12 Saboteur on the Lethargy hands +1 increase duration by some amount? (I would assume 12% if yes). Otherwise, wouldn't it also be ~7:40ish for duration? Where does the additional 32 seconds come from?
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2019-02-11 10:30:33
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When do you guys use Stymie now? Seems rather pointless, as nothing should really be resisting no?
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-11 10:34:59
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Stymie is basically ES that also cuts through enfeeble resistance. ES is a huge acc boost but doesn't reduce percentile immunity. Think Maju and blind.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-02-11 12:22:59
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Anybody tested tier 2 Enspells after the update?
Doubt they did some ninja "fix" to them, given their approach of late they would've said.

But I'm talking about the enspell damage bonus granted by Composure. Maybe it's a higher amount for T2 enspells?
Curious.
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By Chimerawizard 2019-02-11 12:45:14
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount]) + (RDM JPs x Saboteur)) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)
So Saboteur only effects RDM JPs?
don't feel like testing, unless that's the case, maybe:
(((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount])) x Saboteur + RDM JPs) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-11 14:15:51
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Chimerawizard said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount]) + (RDM JPs x Saboteur)) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)
So Saboteur only effects RDM JPs?
don't feel like testing, unless that's the case, maybe:
(((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount])) x Saboteur + RDM JPs) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)

He was specifically referring to Dia III only as far as I can tell, all other enfeebling magic uses the different calculation where Saboteur multiplies the base duration of the spell, not the extra time added by JP.

Where do the Stymie +20 duration JP come in I'm wondering.
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By Aerix 2019-02-11 16:27:32
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Beatrica said: »
the sets i see don't seems to use magic accuary, now enspell accuary is based on magic accuary in ure meele set, if u use too much gear that doesnt boost magic accuary ure enspell dmg will drop a lot on more difficult Content, so if u go for that, Carmine boots are Pretty bad, teaon as well, jhakri Slops prob better than Volte tights as well u Need a haste belt though, that orpheus belt any good? +1-15 ele dmg, how does it work?

Ayanmo+2 already provides a decent amount of Magic Accuracy. And maximizing Magic Accuracy at the cost of melee stats isn't worth it since it'll cut into your TP speed without actually providing a significant boost (if a monster is too resistant you're likely better off going physical). If you really need fewer resists, there's always Saboteuer Frazzle III.

That said, Jhakri Slops+2 are fairly decent because of STP+9, but since they have almost no Haste, you need to make up for it elsewhere as you said. However, Orpheus's Sash is basically irreplaceable for Enspells since it adds up to +15% damage to Enspells if you are at nearly minimum range (I think within 1.4' yalms of the monster).
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-02-11 16:50:29
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Chimerawizard said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount]) + (RDM JPs x Saboteur)) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)
So Saboteur only effects RDM JPs?
don't feel like testing, unless that's the case, maybe:
(((180s + (30s x Merits) + (6s x Relic Head Aug [Merit Amount])) x Saboteur + RDM JPs) x (Non Augmented Gear) x (Augmented Gear)

That was for Dia III only which seems to use a total different formula.

Saboteur seems to give it 3 extra minuets off the bat probably why SE only allows it to further affect JPs.
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-02-11 16:51:36
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I'm really confused by the last time. Does the +12 Saboteur on the Lethargy hands +1 increase duration by some amount? (I would assume 12% if yes). Otherwise, wouldn't it also be ~7:40ish for duration? Where does the additional 32 seconds come from?

They do from 2.0 to 2.12 for the Saboteur part

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Where do the Stymie +20 duration JP come in I'm wondering.

Same spot Enfeebling JPs go. I'll check for Dia III's spot once stymie is back up.
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2019-02-12 00:16:21
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What sorta numbers are yall gettin in lowbuff situations here with Enspells and Sanguine? I currently have Vitiation Sword and know and I aint workin with SU5 but most of the time, when I am on RDM in endgame situations it is in Dynamis or Ambuscade or solo. I havent meleed Wave3 in dynamis in about a month or so(I also main Whm and Geo) but during Wave2 it seems I am gettin little resists on enspell damage. Usually when I am on RDM in Dynamis its in the Tank party. (Id love to hear other stories of different roles)

Sanguine seems to span about (7k Low)-(21k high) so average 14kish, this is before I fine tuned my sets while workin on a bit of limited event time right now. Enspells seem to hit for 75-100% on average for wave2.

Ambuscade(V1-VD) last night night had me between 77-616 enspell damage (no Ayanmo hands/Trove belt) mainly workin with my normal TP build. My resist rate was about... idk 50-75% or so with 77-350 being on average* Mainhand Vitiation sub Ammurapi shield so I could have Sleepga.

Starting to wonder if Acc/Macc/Dw/Haste/TA build would be more damage over time with less focus on how WS (Sanguine) would factor in and discount STP in this type of build. Seems as if we are having a weird time making a TP set that works with both Enspell and normal TP gain.

SE is changing things around and I am wondering if we should look at how we do damage to reflect that change or stick to the tried and true methods. RDM white damage just got a huge boost with Enspells and then we have Sanguine blade to cap on that that with the new SU Swords. idk its a fun place to be right now, lookin for some input~
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By Beatrica 2019-02-12 06:10:33
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Aerix said: »
Beatrica said: »
the sets i see don't seems to use magic accuary, now enspell accuary is based on magic accuary in ure meele set, if u use too much gear that doesnt boost magic accuary ure enspell dmg will drop a lot on more difficult Content, so if u go for that, Carmine boots are Pretty bad, teaon as well, jhakri Slops prob better than Volte tights as well u Need a haste belt though, that orpheus belt any good? +1-15 ele dmg, how does it work?

Ayanmo+2 already provides a decent amount of Magic Accuracy. And maximizing Magic Accuracy at the cost of melee stats isn't worth it since it'll cut into your TP speed without actually providing a significant boost (if a monster is too resistant you're likely better off going physical). If you really need fewer resists, there's always Saboteuer Frazzle III.

That said, Jhakri Slops+2 are fairly decent because of STP+9, but since they have almost no Haste, you need to make up for it elsewhere as you said. However, Orpheus's Sash is basically irreplaceable for Enspells since it adds up to +15% damage to Enspells if you are at nearly minimum range (I think within 1.4' yalms of the monster).

problem is u neeed a lot mag acc to hit reliable with enspells and esp with the uptade now they are a big part of the dmg, there is good gear with acc, mag acc, etc. so gear there are options, orpheus sash doesnt sound too impressive even if is +15% enspell dmg thats almost nothing compured to su4 sword and compusures what +600%?... i rather use a haste belt here, also sometime u'll need frazzle AND mag acc on ure set, also u dont want to frazzle EVERY lesser mob to have mag acc on ure enspells, that is not very effective as well
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2019-02-12 08:07:26
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Aerix said: »
I made a small mistake regarding the STP needed for Kaja Knife--and to keep the 11-hit build intact, I updated the previous set to use Malevolence instead, in case anybody cares.

And this should be a more realistic Enspell TP set without Volte (because getting 2 relevant pieces is super rare) that doesn't go too crazy on Accuracy:

ItemSet 365035

Kaja Knife offhand; should be exactly a 13-hit build before rolls. I don't particularly like using Taeon pieces other than the legs, but the hat is necessary to cap gear Haste.

Are you going TA or Dual Wield on the Taeon Pieces?
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