The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

The problem isn't just that SMNs tools are weaker, it's fine if a jack of all trades job doesn't outperform specialists in what they excel at. However, they need something relevant to add to a group. The few unique perks SMN have are too weak or irrelevant to current endgame to justify a party slot and the weak debuffs and buffs often don't play well with the stronger versions of other jobs.

WAR for instance with it's access to so many weapons and their respective weaponskills became rather versatile in comparison to THF who's only real strength outside of DDing became moot to most endgame. One could argue THF should outperform WAR for that reason but afaik it doesn't deal more damage in most situations.

Also have you heard of RDM? Let's not pretend SMN has a weak toolkit for balance reasons.

SMN really does need an update, and we need Phoenix. They were even teasing it at one point I'm almost sure, and like everything that died under the budget cut it just went away.

I think smn could use an update but obviously it will never happen at this point. Mostly I think SE just needs to take their foot off of smn. They don't even let them use what they have. What SE did to smn was one of the most lazy, offensive ways possible to "balance the game". They could at least exclude the blood pact damage wall from apogee and make the wall separate from another smn's blood pacts, but the code prolly can't tell the difference from one person to another so they just said screw it. Even if smn wasn't nerfed at all and could go unhindered, it still suffers from this : "The few unique perks SMN have are too weak or irrelevant to current endgame to justify a party slot and the weak debuffs and buffs often don't play well with the stronger versions of other jobs." But hasn't this always been the argument since it was released?
However, I don't play anymore but I assume most people use it for their odyssey runs where they are saving the big guns for the final stretch and dont want to use their bards and geo's, then it's buffs become a lot more viable.

Yup, this plus Mewing Lullaby keep SMN at least relevant some of the time, even though it's not the best most of the time.

This is part of the reason why I think Ody is well-designed content, the SJ restrictions and job restrictions for multi-KI setups really allow jobs to shine. This helps people familiarize themselves with the tools available and could create new fanatics for them, or at least awareness.

The thing I'd encourage you to keep in mind is that yes, while pretty much all of what you all are saying is true, Sortie and Odyssey are not the only content in the game (though I understand there are some veterans who may feel otherwise).

There's lots of other content, and I use SMN a lot for that other content, and very rarely is it for my 1-hour or Mewing Lullaby. More often it's just because it's convenient to do with less people (or no people), or has some tools that will help the event run more smoothly (like Shock Squall in Dyna[D]).

It's even somewhat common to see CP/ML parties shouting for a SMN as an alternative to a GEO, so apparently its buffs aren't that far behind. Hastega2, Crystal Blessing, Crimson Howl, and a double attack aura from Ifrit (up to 27% DA) all provide a solid baseline of offensive buffs.

The big difference is that in CP/ML, the SMN can actually keep buffs up because everyone is standing still. By that token, if you think about Sortie for example, it's not the lack of buffs or weakness of buffs preventing SMN from contributing, it's the run & gun nature that prevents SMN from keeping its buffs up. You run and run with no stopping where a SMN could apply a buff, arrive at boss, have time for maybe 2 wards thanks to Apogee, and everyone is off to the races. By the time you get a 3rd up, the boss will almost be dead. SMN is too slow for that content, otherwise it would have great tools to contribute. Think about all those offensive buffs, plus a little damage just like a GEO would do, it can do Fleet Wind between bosses (kinda like having Chocobo Jig available, nice for canceling out C/G curse even if you do have a COR for Bolters) as well as some defensive buffs like Wind's Blessing to make the healer's job easier, Fenrir buffs to provide dispel fodder for B/F in wind mode, Impact, Pacifying Ruby to keep hate off the heavy DD during bosses like F/G/H where them pulling hate can be disastrous, or extend SCH skillchains in the magic burst method, etc.

There's lots of things it could be doing, but it just doesn't have time. It's not just the BP recast either, but dismissing, summoning, and positioning avatars all takes precious time. Let's not even discuss their drunken pathing...

I don't think the problem is getting people together or getting the buffs up, TBH. SMN buffs with proper gearsets last upwards of 10 minutes, you can just throw one on per boss and it will stay up for multiple bosses. Plus if you're sticking together throughout the run, which most groups are with a couple minor exceptions, you can just do the buffs every time you stop. No group is running for over 10 minutes at a time, and Apogee is also available.

The problem is the buffs aren't impactful enough. Wind's Blessing won't change the outcome of any fight. Ifrit's Warcry has a net negative effect if you have a WAR in party and a VERY negligible positive effect with no WAR (A Chaos roll with no DRK, no relic hat proc, no +rolls, and not a very good roll result. Or an Indi-Fury with 0 skill and +3 geomancy). Crystal's Blessing is probably the best buffs, but pales in comparison to GEO buffs. Removing enmity from one party member also has basically no effect on whether or not you win a fight or how fast you win a fight. Perhaps it could make the tank's job slightly easier in a kiting situation, but it's really minimal. Fleet wind is only applicable while haunted and DNC, which is very popular in the current meta, already has the same effect.

SMN's buffs just aren't good enough to justify a slot. They're weaker than RDM, weaker than BRD, weaker than COR, and weaker than GEO.

They can contribute SOMETHING, definitely, and a good SMN can contribute a lot of interesting things that will make your life mildly easier, but in any 6-man content, there's always going to be a better job to fit that slot.

Another reason SMN isn't brought to a lot of stuff then: the content is 6-man, not 18. In an 18 person alliance sure, a SMN could definitely have a place, because there's plenty of extra space for "wouldn't it be nice" jobs. In 6-man parties where you need to fit heals, tank, dd, and support...there's no space for a "nice little bonus" job.

I really enjoy SMN and have quite a good one, but I use it almost never because there's basically always another job I could be contributing in a more meaningful way on.

If smn could do all of it's buffs in one pact, it'd be an easier sell.

Waiting 10 minutes for phalanx then haste then blessing then warcry isn't compatible with "current year" but all in one go, could be convinced.

Obviously still the problem of brd/cor are dps and smn is just a paper weight, but nothing is going to change anyway, so

I'd argue that even if SMN could give 6 buffs at once, it still wouldn't get a slot. There's no way it's topping BRD, COR, or GEO for buffing, it can't out-DD a dedicated DD, it can't tank.

Best-case scenario if there's content where it can be the healer, it could take that spot, but that's...not a very common scenario...and even then you need to balance the aoe debuff removal, spammable cures, cureskin, etc. of WHM with the buffs you get from SMN which, once again, add very little to most battles.

It needs a rework but that's obviously not going to happen.

Damn, I feel like I'm playing a completely different game when I'm reading some comments about SMN.

I could see SMN replace RDM in a mage comp: RUN COR GEO BLM SCH SMN.

at the end of C/G can chocobo jig2 just like dnc...
aminon w/o rdm enfeebles and it'd take longer to get C/D shards w/o the rdm.

"Could" is the issue.

Can it be done, yeah, will it be slower, also yeah, therefore, It cannot be done.

Even hypothetically offmeta thoughts will get you exiled. The metaonry brain cancer is exhausting.