The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

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The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)
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By Chriscoffey 2019-04-15 17:55:05
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To add to this one must also consider the amount of multi attack on comparative gear (I.E. helios acc/DA)sets vs accuracy on what type of mob vs BPD vs ilevel. What can be thought of as very little gain can be attributed to consistency and better augments vs another. It can be that lag plays a factor and lua sets aren't being equipped in a conduit zerg. There are many factors in comparing and if you are just taking one variable to compare as an umbrella formulation it is the wrong consensus.
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By eliroo 2019-04-15 18:16:26
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Asura.Frod said: »
anecdotal observations are not facts.

While this is true, if you classify something like:

Quote:
Nirvana is quite possibly the single largest damage boost in the game

You'd think someones anecdotal evidence would be sufficient enough to back that up. For example, when I got my Gastraphetes and AGed it, I didn't have to go to a spreadsheet to notice that it was a massive improvement. The very first thing I shot with it showed me both in numbers I could see during a fight and numbers I could see after (a parse). My first experience with Nirvana was going toe-to-toe in terms of blood pact damage with someone with a grid. And its not like we just looked at a single blood pact and were like "Wow Nirvana is a joke". No, we called out each number as it landed throughout a few different omen floors and then a bit more in dynamis D. My flaming crush was lit though.



That being said, no one is saying that Nirvana is bad because that would be stupid. Given the stats on it it is definitely the most powerful piece of equipment available for a SMN, but the initial question was about how much of an improvement a person would see from it.

Quote:
oh my god you stupid ***.

I hate it when people disagree with me slightly too.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-04-15 18:54:51
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I do think it's right to say it's probably the single largest boost in the game for SMN after the sachet, but it might also be a little misleading. We're talking about a 10-15% damage gain on Volt Strike without AM3. That means if you were averaging 30k with Grid, you should average closer to 33-34k now. It's not a mind-blowing gain that'll be noticed right away. If you're eyeballing it, it's totally feasible that it seems like pretty small improvement or even none at all at first. And really, 10-15% is a pretty small improvement in the grand scheme of things. It's just... not as small as the improvement from other upgrades.

As has been mentioned, AM3 is where it really shines (and Flaming Crush).

Plus, let's face it, Gridarvor is sufficient for any content in the game. Nirvana is a luxury item, not a mandatory one, despite all the "Nirvana only" shouts. Those shouters are just too lazy to properly vet their SMNs.
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 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2019-04-16 15:14:24
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I disagree that nirvana is a luxury item, there are a few instances where it's a requirement, it's just that the majority of the game is slipping into the difficulty low end.
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By huttburt<3 2019-04-16 18:00:10
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smn is *** mode
 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-04-16 18:09:44
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to be fair. Its totally acceptable to shout for Nirvana, but once you start asking to see every smn's BP sets(which is a totally acceptable thing to ask), all the sudden your an elitist.

=/=
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By Jdove 2019-04-16 19:51:00
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Asura.Chaostaru said: »
to be fair. Its totally acceptable to shout for Nirvana, but once you start asking to see every smn's BP sets(which is a totally acceptable thing to ask), all the sudden your an elitist.

=/=
the only people who would get offended would be people who didnt have good BP sets otherwise im sure they would be happy to show you bp sets is what people should be looking at anyways not what staff they have
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-04-16 21:38:29
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Jdove said: »
Asura.Chaostaru said: »
to be fair. Its totally acceptable to shout for Nirvana, but once you start asking to see every smn's BP sets(which is a totally acceptable thing to ask), all the sudden your an elitist.

=/=
the only people who would get offended would be people who didnt have good BP sets otherwise im sure they would be happy to show you bp sets is what people should be looking at anyways not what staff they have

Careful using logic on asura. It often turns into a /yell rant about so and so being an elitist followed by bandwagon trolls joining in. But you are right.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-16 21:54:33
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I love those kind of people. I'll show you all my awesome augs and +1 gear then BP in idleset.

"oops gearswap failed, soz"

Need to learn that gear matters the least of all the things that matter.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-04-17 10:02:10
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
I love those kind of people. I'll show you all my awesome augs and +1 gear then BP in idleset.

"oops gearswap failed, soz"

Need to learn that gear matters the least of all the things that matter.
And asking if they have Nirvana is a much better test of whether they're a decent SMN?

Or are you suggesting people should vet every SMN by taking them out into Escha and demanding they BP a few things to ensure their sets are working?

I'm not sure what your point even is. Gear is very important for SMN more so than any other job in the game. And people who have the gear tend to use the gear.
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-04-18 04:46:20
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Otragerous, preposterous and blasphemous request but... Anybody got a good idle (avatar out) set for the 575+ Favor tier, without Nirvana, that maximixes Refresh?

So far I built one that has
582 Skill
-14 Perp
8mp Refresh
(alternate version has 581 skill and -16 perp, but -20MP)

Was trying to improve it, most of all I was trying to remove the NQ Apogee feet (don't like to idle in Apogee) but after spending some time trying to build something better, I couldn't manage.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-04-18 10:11:44
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This is about the best I came up with:

ItemSet 245606
577 skill
-14 Perp with Gridarvor
+11~12 Refresh

Doing it with NQ Baayami is another story though.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-04-18 10:17:20
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I said without Nirvana! So easy with Nirvana's -8 xD
Also the whole point while I'm trying to move to a different set from the current one is because I'd like to remove the Apogee Feet I'm currently using (not a big fan of Apogee's HP- in Idle) but, as I mentioned before, I've been unable to.
Max I could achieve was Refresh+7. Which is just 1 less so in the end it's not a big deal I suppose...
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By eliroo 2019-04-18 10:23:54
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I said without Nirvana! So easy with Nirvana's -8 xD
Also the whole point while I'm trying to move to a different set from the current one is because I'd like to remove the Apogee Feet I'm currently using (not a big fan of Apogee's HP- in Idle) but, as I mentioned before, I've been unable to.
Max I could achieve was Refresh+7. Which is just 1 less so in the end it's not a big deal I suppose...

I'm not really a big fan of the HP- in idle either but problem is that you will go into apogee when you use Bloodpacts and your HP will fluctuate greatly. So unless you have some WHM cure bombing you after every BP, I don't really see much use in gearing around that.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-04-18 10:37:00
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Nirvana is in the set shown, but perp is still -14 with Gridarvor.

And yeah, like Eliroo said, your HP will go down when you BP anyway. I like my idle sets to have similar HP to my midcast sets, so my HP doesn't ping pong. I noticed when I take Apogee Dalm out of my idle set, for example, my HP goes yellow every time I do a magic BP.

Edit: I don't know why I always think Gridarvor is -6 perp instead of -5. So it's actually 1 shy of cap. Grid-5, Evans-2, Lucidity-2, Assiduity-3, Evokers-1.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-04-18 10:55:17
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eliroo said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
I said without Nirvana! So easy with Nirvana's -8 xD
Also the whole point while I'm trying to move to a different set from the current one is because I'd like to remove the Apogee Feet I'm currently using (not a big fan of Apogee's HP- in Idle) but, as I mentioned before, I've been unable to.
Max I could achieve was Refresh+7. Which is just 1 less so in the end it's not a big deal I suppose...

I'm not really a big fan of the HP- in idle either but problem is that you will go into apogee when you use Bloodpacts and your HP will fluctuate greatly. So unless you have some WHM cure bombing you after every BP, I don't really see much use in gearing around that.
Most of the time I have regen! And I'm gimp so I normally BP with only 2x HQ apogee pieces. Sometimes it's useless, sometimes it's nice to have more up in idle >_<
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By Lakshmi.Cortez 2019-04-18 13:12:10
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How much of a damage boost is the +2 neck fully upgraded over the omen neck piece?
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By Tarage 2019-04-18 13:37:42
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Why do you want 577+ skill idle?

Lakshmi.Cortez said: »
How much of a damage boost is the +2 neck fully upgraded over the omen neck piece?

Enough to make it best in slot? This is a hard question to answer because the percentage damage increase varies on your gear.
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By Lakshmi.Cortez 2019-04-18 14:04:29
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Nirvana
+2 AF body
Merlinic gloves
2x varar +1
+1 HQ Abj Pants
+1 HQ Abj Feet
Master
Sachet +1
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By Tarage 2019-04-18 14:20:07
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Woltaris Ring +1 is also an option.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-18 14:30:13
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
I love those kind of people. I'll show you all my awesome augs and +1 gear then BP in idleset.

"oops gearswap failed, soz"

Need to learn that gear matters the least of all the things that matter.
And asking if they have Nirvana is a much better test of whether they're a decent SMN?

Or are you suggesting people should vet every SMN by taking them out into Escha and demanding they BP a few things to ensure their sets are working?

I'm not sure what your point even is. Gear is very important for SMN more so than any other job in the game. And people who have the gear tend to use the gear.

I'm saying that, it's far more important that you aren't retarded. can disable or adjust gs for conduit spam. and can appropriately hit(*) control 1. These are the questions you should ask. They are significantly more important than if you have NQ vs HQ gear. But they never get asked.

It doesnt matter how leet your gear is if you only get 6 pacts off during AC and 2 of them went off in idle set and 1 went off in bp-

Gear IS important. It's just the least important, of the things that are important.
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By Jdove 2019-04-19 07:29:39
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or just use a lua that isnt ***
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By eliroo 2019-04-19 23:32:04
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For people who are doing Flaming Crush on Zerde, what setup are doing? My group has tried it and we seem to be having trouble hitting the first hit of FC as most of our FCs are doing 10-13k Flaming crushes most of the time but we have seen a few hit for 80k (When Rayke fell off).

We are currently getting Puppet/Beast roll, Geo Malaise, Indi-Torpor and Entrust Frailty with a Dia2 running.
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By Asura.Frod 2019-04-19 23:57:51
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eliroo said: »
For people who are doing Flaming Crush on Zerde, what setup are doing? My group has tried it and we seem to be having trouble hitting the first hit of FC as most of our FCs are doing 10-13k Flaming crushes most of the time but we have seen a few hit for 80k (When Rayke fell off).

We are currently getting Puppet/Beast roll, Geo Malaise, Indi-Torpor and Entrust Frailty with a Dia2 running.


once you find the sweet spot to hit capped damage, a handfull of summoners can support a group of 12 easily.

Overkill:
2 geos. Bolster def down and mdef down. second bubbles eva down and meva down. Dia2+, Each smn warcry on their ifrit, Food probably the hybrid acc/atk food. crooked beast & drachen. Rayke, gambit, odyllic subterfuge.


go over every aspect of the fight with each member, even the basics like what to bolster, if the smns are job master, etc. you're most likely missing some major components to only hit 20k on him.
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By eliroo 2019-04-20 00:05:50
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Asura.Frod said: »
eliroo said: »
For people who are doing Flaming Crush on Zerde, what setup are doing? My group has tried it and we seem to be having trouble hitting the first hit of FC as most of our FCs are doing 10-13k Flaming crushes most of the time but we have seen a few hit for 80k (When Rayke fell off).

We are currently getting Puppet/Beast roll, Geo Malaise, Indi-Torpor and Entrust Frailty with a Dia2 running.


once you find the sweet spot to hit capped damage, a handfull of summoners can support a group of 12 easily.

Overkill:
2 geos. Bolster def down and mdef down. second bubbles eva down and meva down. Dia2+, Each smn warcry on their ifrit, Food probably the hybrid acc/atk food. crooked beast & drachen. Rayke, gambit, odyllic subterfuge.


go over every aspect of the fight with each member, even the basics like what to bolster, if the smns are job master, etc. you're most likely missing some major components to only hit 20k on him.

Thank you!
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By Jdove 2019-04-20 02:51:05
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Use a bard for fire therenody II as well it helps flaming crush cap dmg ive done it without rune fencer just using brd and 2 geo's even with a rune fencer i still always take a bard it isnt optional IMO fire thernody last alot longer than gambit and rayke and even tho it should die before the rune's abilities wear off saying and doing are two different things most the time.
You can cap dmg without a rune fencer
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By Odin.Bangla 2019-04-20 08:16:04
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What is the suggested BP set here? My group has been going with Puppet roll and Beast roll, used a RUN and Marine stewpot and I have difficulty even getting close to the damage cap while wearing the recommended MAB gearset for Flaming Crush.
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By Jdove 2019-04-20 08:33:05
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this is what i use ,

-- Hybrid
sets.avatar.hybrid = set_combine(sets.avatar.skill,{
main="Nirvana",
sub="Elan Strap +1",
ammo="Sancus Sachet +1",
head={ name="Apogee Crown +1", augments={'MP+80','Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+35','Blood Pact Dmg.+8',}},
body="Con. Doublet +3",
hands={ name="Merlinic Dastanas", augments={'Pet: Mag.
Acc.+24 Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+24','Blood Pact Dmg.+9','Pet: STR+9','Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+14',}},
legs={ name="Apogee Slacks +1", augments={'Pet: STR+20','Blood Pact Dmg.+14','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+4',}},
feet={ name="Apogee Pumps +1", augments={'MP+80','Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+35','Blood Pact Dmg.+8',}},
neck="Smn. Collar +2",
waist="Regal Belt",
left_ear="Gelos Earring",
right_ear="Lugalbanda Earring",
left_ring="Varar Ring +1",
right_ring="Varar Ring +1",
back={ name="Campestres's Cape", augments={'Pet: M.Acc.+20 Pet: M.Dmg.+20','Eva.+20 /Mag. Eva.+20','Pet: Magic Damage+4','"Store TP"+10','System: 1 ID: 1246 Val: 2',}},
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By eliroo 2019-04-20 18:28:10
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Someone mentioned a table of sorts that displayed when Apogee +1 Slacks would be more beneficial than Enticers Slacks. Does anyone that table still? Or does anyone remember what TP value they won out at?
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