~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

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~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
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 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2019-05-21 18:36:46
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Just remember to get an Aegis before that though.
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 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2019-05-21 18:44:34
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I think I'd rather do aoe pts during cp campaign than inconvenience a party with a paladin slot.
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By Nariont 2019-05-21 18:48:06
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honestly its no worse than a typical run as far as just being the distortion opener for a sc+mb pt, long as it dies from the MB its no big difference
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By Taint 2019-05-22 05:48:42
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He still acts like you run up to an NPC and buy ochain.

Of all my emps Ochain and Harp were among the most annoying.

PLD was one of my first master jobs. (Maybe 2nd??). I just did content, escha, omen, ambu. Used tank shouts to get CP and gear my DPS jobs.
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By SimonSes 2019-05-22 06:13:29
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Taint said: »
He still acts like you run up to an NPC and buy ochain.

Of all my emps Ochain and Harp were among the most annoying.

PLD was one of my first master jobs. (Maybe 2nd??). I just did content, escha, omen, ambu. Used tank shouts to get CP and gear my DPS jobs.

How annoying is to make ochain depends on the server. If you have no competition and can for example do Ironclad and avatar in rotation then it's super easy. When you have competition for avatars, you better just go do something else instead XD
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By Taint 2019-05-22 06:31:14
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Of course but it’s still:

Farm item
Farm pop item > farm NM
Pop Ironclad

All three rely on TH/RNG for drops.

Get crystal
Run around sitting > Pop elemental
Run around sitting > pop NM
Run around sitting > pop NM (TH step)
All in timers so you can’t spam step 2-3 unless you move zones.

Build amber
Proc NM (better have your proc weapons NIN or WAR)
Farm NM
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By Nariont 2019-05-22 07:57:49
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Likely an exaggeration if its the whole ochain process, that ir buying pops as you farm your own and getting a lot of bites
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By soralin 2019-05-22 10:39:12
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>Red proccing to get KIs as a 99 paladin

>TH

>All in timers so you can’t spam step 2-3 unless you move zones.

Yeah no wonder you think ochain is a pain to farm lol.

You know the colorless soul NMs wander near towards Azdaja and Ironclad right? By the time I did all my Azdaja horns and Iron plates I was also nearly done the colorless souls too.

You also know SE reduced the pop timers a lot and with RoV KIs your KI upgrade is 100% right?

And don't even bother with red proccing to get the bugard eye. You're a paladin. Just cleave spam the skellies right next to the ???, Azdaja is the easiest of the steps, can do that one in like 3 or 4 hours.
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By Taint 2019-05-22 10:56:03
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Exactly my point.

Horns the fastest part is going to take 3-4 hours.

Ochain takes no where near 2hrs as stated.

And yes i did ochain before ilvl but i did harp a few months ago.
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By soralin 2019-05-22 12:19:21
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I see, when I said 'a couple', you, someone looking to kick ***up, used that as your springboard to assume I meant exactly 2 hours of work.

I will edit my post since nuance is lost on people here and everything is taken hyper literally.

A few.

A few hours.

Happy?
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By Taint 2019-05-22 12:31:39
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Sure i leaned on your exaggeration but you are giving advice to new PLDs.

“Just go pop out an ochain before anything else”

10hrs into ochain for a new PlD and not finished could be discouraging. Then if they take your advice, make ochain, SIRD etc. they’ll get master PLD slightly faster but then that ochain will hang on a mannequin. Hardly good advice for a new PLD to build an Emp that won’t be used during endgame.

My order puts a PLD in shout groups very fast and let’s them have access to endgame quickly. Yours waste time and puts 3 stars over their head.
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2019-05-22 13:30:10
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As someone who came back a year ago and who had to cut through a lot of *** spewed left and right here and in-game (especially in-game because I haven't met a single proper PLD since I came back), you guys didn't even try to actually think of what the answer to his question would be. You simply looked at your stuff, thought about the content you do and wondered what was most useful. That's not how you advise someone in a relevant manner.

soralin said: »
9. Aegis
Get this sooner, it's cheap. In practice it's not as used as some people make it seem to be but it's helpful here and there. Very dependent on what your activity is, if you aren't doing the same content as these people, and spoiler, you aren't, it loses a lot of its usefulness. Ochain will be used far more than Aegis while gearing up and beyond.

A mix of Souveran NQ and AF1/2+1 is what I used until I went back to farm Souveran +1 while working on ambuscade capes and newly released accessories. I made both shields right after and then I worked toward bis for the slots I didn't have bis in.

The biggest improvement was 5/5 Souveran +1. But I can't really advise to get 5/5 Souveran +1 as first goal, it's not realistic. Just make sure to work towards it whenever possible, it changes a lot of things.

Master PLD is seriously overrated. Do not put it above anything else in term of priority. Get Enlight II, though, it's nice.

SimonSes said: »
Taint said: »
He still acts like you run up to an NPC and buy ochain.

Of all my emps Ochain and Harp were among the most annoying.

PLD was one of my first master jobs. (Maybe 2nd??). I just did content, escha, omen, ambu. Used tank shouts to get CP and gear my DPS jobs.

How annoying is to make ochain depends on the server. If you have no competition and can for example do Ironclad and avatar in rotation then it's super easy. When you have competition for avatars, you better just go do something else instead XD
My server is empty. I made my Ochain a few months ago and just did 2 Daurdablas last month. I can tell you that I was killing ***NON STOP in what I think was beyond efficient and it still took me for *** ever.
I had a mule warping to buy Sisyphus fragments between pops and it still took forever. You guys downplay this way too much, seriously. Even if Ochain has it easier with one key item only, it's still a timed pop, so it's the same in the end.

I don't want to see Apademak ever again.
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By SimonSes 2019-05-22 13:48:35
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
I had a mule warping to buy Sisyphus fragments between pops and it still took forever. You guys downplay this way too much, seriously. Even if Ochain has it easier with one key item only, it's still a timed pop, so it's the same in the end.

Not really. Apademak is a HUGE pain. Every dragon (Azdaja, Dragua and Isgebind) are SUPER easy. You do it very wrong if you only try to farm dragon for KI. All those zones have only 2 KIs in large Gold chest, meaning you have 50% chance to get KI for dragon when you get KI in chest. When I was doing Dragua and Isgebind recently I (on avg) got 3 KIs from chest before NM that drop KI repoped. I killed 15 Draguas in one hour once. I many time got Ki for Dragua from chest left by Dragua. Those dragons are the easiest part of ALL empy NMs.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2019-05-22 14:07:11
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SimonSes said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
I had a mule warping to buy Sisyphus fragments between pops and it still took forever. You guys downplay this way too much, seriously. Even if Ochain has it easier with one key item only, it's still a timed pop, so it's the same in the end.

Not really. Apademak is a HUGE pain. Every dragon (Azdaja, Dragua and Isgebind) are SUPER easy. You do it very wrong if you only try to farm dragon for KI. All those zones have only 2 KIs in large Gold chest, meaning you have 50% chance to get KI for dragon when you get KI in chest. When I was doing Dragua and Isgebind recently I (on avg) got 3 KIs from chest before NM that drop KI repoped. I killed 15 Draguas in one hour once. I many time got Ki for Dragua from chest left by Dragua. Those dragons are the easiest part of ALL empy NMs.
Depending on your starting gear, it's not worth it.

When I did Isgebind, sure I could cleave and all but it was seriously inefficient cleaving, took some time to make it efficient enough to mow through it (Azdaja).

The worst part however were the Ironclads (taking Apademak out of the equation). I received way too many single plate drops despite TH8/9.
Avatars are a joke with the rest trick and they almùost always gave me 3.

The Ironclad for the first Daurdabla alone took as much time as the other two for Ochain and second Daurdabla combined. I was popping it on repop, literally couldn't go faster.
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By soralin 2019-05-22 14:10:47
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
As someone who came back a year ago and who had to cut through a lot of *** spewed left and right here and in-game (especially in-game because I haven't met a single proper PLD since I came back), you guys didn't even try to actually think of what the answer to his question would be. You simply looked at your stuff, thought about the content you do and wondered what was most useful. That's not how you advise someone in a relevant manner.

soralin said: »
9. Aegis
Get this sooner, it's cheap. In practice it's not as used as some people make it seem to be but it's helpful here and there. Very dependent on what your activity is, if you aren't doing the same content as these people, and spoiler, you aren't, it loses a lot of its usefulness. Ochain will be used far more than Aegis while gearing up and beyond.

A mix of Souveran NQ and AF1/2+1 is what I used until I went back to farm Souveran +1 while working on ambuscade capes and newly released accessories. I made both shields right after and then I worked toward bis for the slots I didn't have bis in.

The biggest improvement was 5/5 Souveran +1. But I can't really advise to get 5/5 Souveran +1 as first goal, it's not realistic. Just make sure to work towards it whenever possible, it changes a lot of things.

Master PLD is seriously overrated. Do not put it above anything else in term of priority. Get Enlight II, though, it's nice.

SimonSes said: »
Taint said: »
He still acts like you run up to an NPC and buy ochain.

Of all my emps Ochain and Harp were among the most annoying.

PLD was one of my first master jobs. (Maybe 2nd??). I just did content, escha, omen, ambu. Used tank shouts to get CP and gear my DPS jobs.

How annoying is to make ochain depends on the server. If you have no competition and can for example do Ironclad and avatar in rotation then it's super easy. When you have competition for avatars, you better just go do something else instead XD
My server is empty. I made my Ochain a few months ago and just did 2 Daurdablas last month. I can tell you that I was killing ***NON STOP in what I think was beyond efficient and it still took me for *** ever.
I had a mule warping to buy Sisyphus fragments between pops and it still took forever. You guys downplay this way too much, seriously. Even if Ochain has it easier with one key item only, it's still a timed pop, so it's the same in the end.

I don't want to see Apademak ever again.

Apedemak isnt ochain... also apedemak x75 takes me about 5 hours with a red proc war. I know that as a fact cause apedemak horns are my #1 money maker I sell to peeps doing duarbys. Shits easy as hell.

Sucks trying to do it during light campaign though. Avoid that.
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By soralin 2019-05-22 14:13:03
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Also lol at peeps thinking you dont use ochain in end game.

We literally JUST had a month of ochain ambuscades. What are you people talking about?
 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-05-22 14:13:46
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farming souls on asura is beyond a pain. your almost never alone farmings t2-t3's its incredibly annoying. Id rather make another r15 mythic than farm souls, seriously. the plates and horns are cake walk tho.

on that note. If anyone on asura wants to merc the souls, Ill pay 750k per soul x75 lol
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By soralin 2019-05-22 14:59:43
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Asura.Chaostaru said: »
farming souls on asura is beyond a pain. your almost never alone farmings t2-t3's its incredibly annoying. Id rather make another r15 mythic than farm souls, seriously. the plates and horns are cake walk tho.

on that note. If anyone on asura wants to merc the souls, Ill pay 750k per soul lol

Yeah souls suck on Asura, its genuinely worth the effort to do souls on another server.
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By soralin 2019-05-22 15:09:46
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Speaking of Shields...

Has anyone calculated what Block Rate is down to on end game content with Aegis before the floor?
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-05-22 15:11:00
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Martel ran numbers, it's in this thread. Probably 20 pages deep.
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2019-05-22 16:05:09
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Souls will take at MINIMUM 5 hours.

At a 10 minute pop rate, let's say 12 minutes for repop/spawning/killing, that's 5 kills/hour. That turns into 10 souls/hour. In all honesty you won't see 2 drop every time, so you're really looking to invest over 6 guaranteed hours in that, probably longer.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-05-22 16:11:54
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Souls will take at MINIMUM 5 hours.

Or just do what some people do and camp all 3 zones within the time spam of each other. Quick farming my dude. I managed to farm 2 Ochains and harp doing this method, very efficient. Although Tako was used.
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By soralin 2019-05-22 16:14:40
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Also as I said, do your souls /while/ doing plates and horns.
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2019-05-22 16:15:06
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That's a terrible idea. If you're serious about doing Ochain you should be farming the next NMs during downtime to maximize your time, not zone hopping for souls.
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By Nariont 2019-05-22 16:23:45
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soralin said: »
Speaking of Shields...

Has anyone calculated what Block Rate is down to on end game content with Aegis before the floor?

its this post i believe

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46016/first-and-final-line-of-defense-v20/25/#3214511
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-05-22 16:29:40
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
That's a terrible idea. If you're serious about doing Ochain you should be farming the next NMs during downtime to maximize your time, not zone hopping for souls.

Not really. If you have already done Plates and want to do Souls by themselves, farming all 3 zones is faster than waiting for repop.

You can finish Souls and Plates within 5 hours farming all 3 zones at once if you are serious. No need to spend minimum of 5 hours just on Souls alone when you can do both faster. If you got mules then Plates is faster.

Azdaja horns are fast regardless. Can finish them really quick farming KIs.
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By Lakshmi.Watusa 2019-05-22 16:33:11
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Souls will take at MINIMUM 5 hours.

Or just do what some people do and camp all 3 zones within the time spam of each other. Quick farming my dude. I managed to farm 2 Ochains and harp doing this method, very efficient. Although Tako was used.

Reminds me of this:

YouTube Video Placeholder
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-05-22 16:36:06
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Lol. I just said from my personal experience farming, I used Tako to shave few minutes of walking cos I am very lazy when it comes to farming. But it's still really quick without.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-05-22 16:37:56
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Yo if you do it right with tools you can pop and not lose your colored abyssite =o
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By soralin 2019-05-22 16:42:19
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Yo if you do it right with tools you can pop and not lose your colored abyssite =o

Ive never heard of this. I already have Ochain but Im curious to hear about this.
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