~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

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~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
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 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2021-02-25 13:22:18
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
Ok, so, studying Martel's sets for gear options, and tweaking a few things to my own preferences. I think this is what I'm going to settle for. About the only thing I'm missing on these sets is the Burtgang and the Founder's Hose(lol Sinister Reign hates me).

This one is for the spells that don't need SIRD, like Flash, Stun, or Absorb spells. This one has 185-198 enmity with merits and Crusade.
ItemSet 378236

This one is the SIRD set for longer casting spells like BLU spells. This one has 176-189 Enmity with merits and Crusade. And has 105% SIRD.
ItemSet 378300

Both sets keep me around 2600-2700 HP. PDT, MDT, Cure received are all capped.
Your enmity numbers are looking a bit odd there...

I've totaled the first set at 179 enmity with max unity rank, merits, crusade, and R15 Loess+1. The second set should top off at +168.

How are you getting 198 max?

Crusade: 50
Merits: 5
Burtgang: 23
Ammo: 2
head: 24
neck: 15
ear1: 4
ear2: 5
body: 10
hands: 14
ring1: 9
ring2: 9
cape: 10
legs: 9
feet: 9

Total: 198 with max unity

That's the /drk set.
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By Aricomfy 2021-02-25 13:22:52
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I've totaled the first set at 179 enmity with max unity rank, merits, crusade, and R15 Loess+1.
Something's up. I got 178* myself with the first set.
 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2021-02-25 13:24:53
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Err... shoot, I guess -20 off those sets... for some reason I thought Crusade was +50... but BGwiki says it's +30. ugh...
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-25 13:24:54
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Crusade is +30 enmity. And oops, I had the hands as +15 instead of 14. so 178 total.

EDIT: Also, second set should be +169. I had the feet as +14 there. Basically I mentally flipped them with yorium hands. lol
 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2021-02-25 13:27:32
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So, looks like the /drk set is actually 165-178, and the /blu set is 156-169.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-25 13:33:08
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Aricomfy said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
Cape doesn't have SIRD, it has +10 Enmity and -10% PDT.
Makes sense then. I didn't even know that helmet existed by the way. Gets the old noggin joggin. Interesting choices.
Loess is a good piece in some ways. In others it's pretty terrible.

It has no haste at all. Thus the use of Tempus Fugit in the waist slot to counter the deficit. Enmity wise this is well worth the gains.

And it has 0 magic evasion. I hate this. It's not always an issue, but especially now, going from Sakpata's meva to 0 is... painful. I like to gear my casting sets so that I can just spam spells and shrug off whatever hits me while I cast, but meva wise this helm makes that.. hard. Still, even Souveran has fairly bad meva. This is just.. worse.

But it does have ridiculous Enmity+ and DT-, use where appropriate and safe.

EDIT:
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
So, looks like the /drk set is actually 165-178, and the /blu set is 156-169.
I would really like it if SE got rid of all these unity variable stats. This made more sense when the gear was the only unity related concern, but now with unity trusts being a major factor... I'm not going to just chase rank 1 every week to keep my gear maxed. -_-
 Bahamut.Omegus
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By Bahamut.Omegus 2021-02-27 08:57:25
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Should we still use the Enif Cosciales on PLD, or maybe drop 3% fc and use the Eschite cuisses(path D) for FC/fastrecast. How detrimental is dropping to ilvl 117?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-02-27 09:22:09
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Bahamut.Omegus said: »
Should we still use the Enif Cosciales on PLD, or maybe drop 3% fc and use the Eschite cuisses(path D) for FC/fastrecast. How detrimental is dropping to ilvl 117?
I still use Enif for precast. If you're using gearswap there's virtually no chance of ever getting hit wearing them when swapped in on precast. I would avoid using them for midcast as the defensive drop is brutal.

You could also go for Odyssean cuisses with a 6% FC augment(Fern stones.) But Oseem augmenting is really annoying. Eschite are easier for a 1 FC difference.
 Bahamut.Omegus
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By Bahamut.Omegus 2021-02-27 09:39:03
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Thank you I've had to make some adjustments, with the odyssey lag i don't want to get caught too long in certain sets.
Good shout on the Odyssean cuisses i might also utilise those for my flash set as well.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-10 01:08:52
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Gentlemen...we have it. The set of the gods. Nyame with the Store TP path...Aftermath 3...imagine it.

Hell, we even have the Weaponskill Damage path for an actually competent DD PLD finally. Who needs Naegling when you're 5/5 WSD+9%? Burtgang Savage Blades incoming.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-10 13:22:15
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The pain of only being able to have one set of this gear... /clutchesChest.
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By Ruaumoko 2021-03-13 04:54:37
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Turns out you can have a lot of fun with Divine Emblem, especially now it's reuse timer has been lowered. First burst was without Geomancer or any MDEF Down debuff to speak of, the second and third had Malaise on the target. Divine Emblem adds a lotttt of damage to Holy II and would also increase the Enmity generated.

ItemSet 378651

Hands/Feet are Nyame and the set could use some upgrades, it was just something I was messing about with while putting PLD Guide Pt.2 together. It's practicality is really questionable unless there was a co-ordinated skillchain with proper support, still a very fun thing to do.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-13 19:22:05
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So I found something that blew my mind a bit on a JP blog awhile ago. Got distracted and hadn't posted til now.

There's a post on the leaguemili blog about PLD gear that off-handedly references a mechanic I'd never heard of. Pardon the google translatese, but I think it mostly gets the point across.
Quote:
For content that can be used for support jobs, select the support magic swordfighter to take advantage of Shakpana's magic avoidance.
This is because there is a resist wall that cannot be broken through by magic avoidance alone, and in order to break through that wall, it is necessary to raise the corresponding attribute resistance as much as possible. If you become a support magic swordfighter, it will be easier to aim for resist against three attributes at the same time due to the Enchant Rune and Ba system.
The italicized portions were also a link to some tests done in another blog. http://sazitouhuu.blogspot.com/2019/11/21.html.

I'm not sure I've fully parsed everything here, but I'll summarize the two main points I came away with.

1: Without at least some elemental resistance you cannot get a full(1/8) resist against an elemental attack. No matter how much magic evasion you have. It's not clear to me how much resistance is needed or if this varies by mob/attack. I believe it was referring to this as the "Quarter guarantee". I guess cause there's a minimum of a 1/4 resist without elemental resistance.
2: If your elemental resistance vs an attack is negative, then the attack is guaranteed to do at least 1/2 dmg. In other words, you cannot get a 1/8 or 1/4 resist anymore, regardless of how overwhelming you meva is. This would be the "Half guarantee".

This did seem a bit outlandish, but the post looked pretty convincing, and had a lot of data. So I went and tested myself.

Since I didn't want to stand around waiting for uncooperative mobs to nuke me, I went and did some Ballista. Ballista is sometimes weird, so this test is not perfect, but I figure it's good enough to confirm the existence of the mechanic in question.

First I spammed some nukes and observed the dmg spread. Wanted to make sure Ard didn't have too much macc, so I mostly stripped him of ilvl gear.

Ard's revenge.

So at first we have 144, 75, and 36. And one weirdo 37. Not sure what that was about. Then if you look at where the cursor is in the log, I used a single sulpor, then had Ard nuke more, and finally saw that 1/8 resist for 17 dmg.

Even wearing full Sakpata's and meva+ accessories, I never got a 1/8th resist till I added some water resist. While this may behave differently or require more resistance outside of PVP, this is enough for me to at least confirm that this is a thing.

Next up, negative ele resist and the half guarantee as they called it. I accidentally locked myself out of My ballista reservation thinking it had ended that tossing the book. So it was off to Brenner.

Ard's revenge part 2.

So, using stone now since it was watersday and I didn't want day procs mucking with the numbers. Starting off we have 36, 73, and 144. Mostly 36's showing that the resist rate is high.

Part way down the log in the screen shot I'm penalized for making an equipment change. This is where I equipped a weathering shield, making use of its all elemental resist-.

Notice that every nuke after that was at least a 73. half resist minimum. So pretty much confirmed.

I might at some point want to retest this vs mobs outside of PVP. And possibly check to see if there's a required amount of elemental resistance.

I think this doesn't affect RUN much, they have very plentiful options for various elemental resistances. but for PLDs trying to make full use of Sakpata's meva+, this is potentially relevant.

I'm now trying to work either Warder's charm or Carrier's sash into my resist focused sets to make sure I always have at least a little resist+ towards most or all elements.

Probably the biggest remaining question I have about this is.. can this affect resisting enfeebles? I think it's fairly clear that it doesn't affect most of them... but what about things with multiple resist states like stun or sleep? Is it possible that they have an equivalent of the 1/8th resist that might require elemental resistance to get a full resist? Well, maybe not sleep, it should only have two or thee states. full duration, half, and fully resisted. Not sure if you count a full resist as a state since there's not even a debuff to have a state in that case... Semantics. But it might be interesting to see if having negative dark resist locks you into having a half duration sleep at best...

This is something I might have to look into but I'd welcome input if anyone is aware of a case the would be relevant to this.
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-13 19:57:47
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Fascinating. Nice find!

Maybe I'm getting lost in the details here but basically elemental resist specifically (not Magic Evasion) at certain key points "guarantees" a resist state?

This reminds me of the old days when shells stacked ridiculous amounts of resist against wyrm breathe attacks.


So on the opposite end... negative elemental resist means you "lose" a resist tier?
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-13 20:42:35
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I'm now trying to work either Warder's charm or Carrier's sash into my resist focused sets to make sure I always have at least a little resist+ towards most or all elements.

Gonna be real difficult losing the 200 HP and some slight enmity that Unmoving Collar +1 provides and making up for it. Carrier's Sash at least has +15 Light and Dark resist while Warder's doesn't, as well as a little more HP than Asklepian Belt. Losing 3 MDB and 20 MEVA is a pretty brutal loss as well though.

I have HP +60, Evasion +20/Magic Evasion +45, Enmity +10 on my ambu cape, so that softens the blow on losing Asklepian Belt a little.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-13 21:44:31
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Aricomfy said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I'm now trying to work either Warder's charm or Carrier's sash into my resist focused sets to make sure I always have at least a little resist+ towards most or all elements.

Gonna be real difficult losing the 200 HP and some slight enmity that Unmoving Collar +1 provides and making up for it. Carrier's Sash at least has +15 Light and Dark resist while Warder's doesn't, as well as a little more HP than Asklepian Belt. Losing 3 MDB and 20 MEVA is a pretty brutal loss as well though.

I have HP +60, Evasion +20/Magic Evasion +45, Enmity +10 on my ambu cape, so that softens the blow on losing Asklepian Belt a little.
Yeah, I'm using Carriers more often than Warder's. Too bad warder's augments turned out to be trash...

I'll be making a full meva cape now that Sakpata legs DT is fixed.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-13 22:06:25
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Assuming it doesn't apply to enfeebles, I don't think it'll require changing your set too often; while enfeeble elements vary wildly even on a single mob, most monsters focus on a single element for magical TP move damage and nukes, so having just a barspell on should be plenty to get you past that wall. The only times I think swapping in the belt would be useful is if the mob hits hard specifically with darkness or light damage, or you're fighting a powerful black mage or astral flowing summoner.

It does mean that keeping the right barspell up and stuff like threnodies erased is very important, though, and if it applies in the other direction, threnodies are suddenly even more important on highly magically evasive mobs.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2021-03-13 23:34:57
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There used to be an interesting bug with Perfect Defense where -elemental resistance (Bullwhip Belt) used to negate the Debuff Resistance.

The update note when they fixed it was:
An issue wherein the Paladin ability Fealty and the Blood Pact Perfect Defense would not block status ailments if the player's elemental resistance value dropped below zero.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27457-September-25-2012-%28JST%29-Version-Update?p=364086&viewfull=1#post364086
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By SimonSes 2021-03-14 05:08:35
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Game breaking info Martel and another reason for love/toxic relationship with ffxi. I bet some basic things like that will be hidden from us even when they switch off servers XD
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-14 22:31:18
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Carrier's Sash roughly cuts magic damage taken in half or by about -45/50%. Using Aegis, getting hit with a 22 damage Stone V spell turns into 11 damage when wearing Carrier's Sash over Asklepian Belt. A measly +15 Earth Elemental Resistance doesn't seem like it should make that big of a difference when a geared WHM's Barspell potency is 235~, it doesn't really make sense to me. It's like all the magic evasion in the world won't reduce magic damage taken past a certain threshold until you have elemental resistances on you, no matter how small of an amount it is, then it suddenly kicks into overdrive with just +15. It had the same effect using Priwen as well.

Used this set for this. Zero buffs on me. Earthsday.

ItemSet 378205

Cape: HP +60, Evasion +20/Magic Evasion +45, Enmity +10.

If you're looking to resist some more magic damage and you lack Barspells or the fight just casts multiple elemental spells, I guess Carrier's Sash is great. Still a big question mark if it helps you resist enfeebles though. If it doesn't help with that, I'm not certain on how I feel about it to be honest.
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By Ruaumoko 2021-03-14 23:32:15
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The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-14 23:37:47
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Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...
I made sure I still had one before I posted. XD

Aricomfy said: »
Carrier's Sash roughly cuts magic damage taken in half or by about -45/50%. Using Aegis, getting hit with a 22 damage Stone V spell turns into 11 damage when wearing Carrier's Sash over Asklepian Belt. A measly +15 Earth Elemental Resistance doesn't seem like it should make that big of a difference when a geared WHM's Barspell potency is 235~, it doesn't really make sense to me. It's like all the magic evasion in the world won't reduce magic damage taken past a certain threshold until you have elemental resistances on you, no matter how small of an amount it is, then it suddenly kicks into overdrive with just +15. It had the same effect using Priwen as well.

Used this set for this. Zero buffs on me. Earthsday.

ItemSet 378205

Cape: HP +60, Evasion +20/Magic Evasion +45, Enmity +10.

If you're looking to resist some more magic damage and you lack Barspells or the fight just casts multiple elemental spells, I guess Carrier's Sash is great. Still a big question mark if it helps you resist enfeebles though. If it doesn't help with that, I'm not certain on how I feel about it to be honest.
Nice test. I do plan to try some enfeebling tests, but a lot of the weird stuff that changes in PVP will mess with it.(PLD resist sleep is crazy in PVP for example.)
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2021-03-14 23:38:20
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Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...

Before everyone goes buying it up here's the friendly reminder for WAR/MNK/THF/BST/NIN/DNC/RUN Engraved Belt is a slightly stronger option from the carbuncle HTMB
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 01:39:11
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Testing enfeeble resistance with Carrier's Sash right now in the most slow and boring way imaginable.

Fun Fact, it takes 2 solid hours for a Byrgen Elemental to run out of MP. End me.

I'll have some results to post after a while. Getting data on resist state for Bio III, Stun, Sleepga/Sleepga II and some misc stuff on the side that may or may not matter.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 04:37:27
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The results are in. Carrier's Sash straight up resists Enfeebles more than Asklepian Belt according to these numbers.

Set used:

ItemSet 378701

Bio III and Stun both received 20 samples each per test.
If I were to wait for 20 samples of Sleepga or anything else, I'd have been standing there for 20+ hours. I just counted how many times they landed within the duration of time it took me to acquire 20 samples of Bio III and Stun which took 2 hours to finish collecting those 20 samples for each test.

--------------------------------

R = Resisted | M = Minutes | S = Seconds

Asklepian Belt

Bio III:
3M = 15
2M = 5

Stun:
R = 1
2S = 6
5S = 8
7S = 5

Sleepga:
1M = 3
45S = 1

Tenebral Crush's Defense Down landed 11 times.
Entomb's Petrification landed 9 times.

Carrier's Sash

Bio III:
3M = 13
2M = 7

Stun:
R = 4
2S = 4
5S = 7
7S = 5

Sleepga:
1M = 1

Tenebral Crush's Defense Down landed 3 times.
Entomb's Petrification landed 3 times.

--------------------------------

It was literally like striking gold getting Sleepga and Rasp (especially Rasp) to actually land on me using either waist piece but as you can see, it landed more often with Asklepian. I also observed Absorb spells landing far more frequently while using Asklepian. Switching to Carrier's Sash, they barely ever landed on me as well as Entomb/Tenebral Crush landing on me becoming very rare. You also take FAR less magic damage over time using Carrier's Sash than Asklepian Belt. Losing the 3 Magic Defense Bonus on that thing ain't gonna hurt anyone's feelings. I was finding myself needing to actually cure to stay alive over the course of 2 hours during the test when using Asklepian Belt while I never needed to cure once using Carrier's Sash. I made sure that me curing myself or anything else I did wasn't influencing the results whatsoever. Zero buffs on me.

I'd say this is definitive enough evidence to put Carrier's Sash in the winner's seat but if someone wants to do their own tests to make 100% absolutely sure that it's legit, go right ahead please. The more proof the better. I personally consider myself an idiot, so take this test with a grain of salt until it's backed up by something else.

Me go bed now.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 05:05:29
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I'll go ahead and mention one more thing while I'm at it because data is data, why not. Didn't think it was accurate at the time when I completed it yesterday but this test I did today kind of makes me think it is accurate now.

Numbing Blossom in Foret de Hennetiel. Do not have the KI that resists its Paralyze. Stood in front of it, getting hit by the Paralysis Spores.

Using Asklepian Belt, out of 100 times, Paralyze landed on me 11 times.

Using Carrier's Sash, out of 100 times, Paralyze landed on me 6 times.

Interestingly, I used Aegis for both tests. Don't know if this info even matters and I probably wasted my time looking at a plant for 4 hours but hey, I just wasted 5 hours looking at floating evil rocks, it seems like wasting my time is my specialty.
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-15 08:22:39
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Great testing y'all. Cheers again for finding the info in the first place. Asklepian Belt at at least still has some use as a MEva/MDB hybrid belt so I don't see it being tossed out.

Also..

Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-15 08:37:30
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Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Great testing y'all. Cheers again for finding the info in the first place. Asklepian Belt at at least still has some use as a MEva/MDB hybrid belt so I don't see it being tossed out.

Also..

Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...
I mean, it's got a pretty much permanent spot as a divine magic piece for Enlight. It boosts Enlight an entire skill tier by itself. That thing will be in my inventory for the rest of the game, most likely.
 Asura.Bayonette
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By Asura.Bayonette 2021-03-15 08:39:43
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Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...

It’s pretty easy to solo spam legion on THF. Every target can drop the sash, too! I used to idle in one on my WHM and RUN, seemed too weak, guess ill grab another.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Hall_of_Im
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