Guns, Girls, And WoW

You were right on #1: I was deliberately stating a truism to see if anyone has ever glanced at the subject of logic and debate. Calling my statement "stupid" rather than "pointless" was a major misstep.

Nonetheless, most adults endure the misery of adolescence without murdering several random strangers, so it's a bit facile to say that "Whaa-whaa, being a teen sucks and is so hard that it makes sense to go on a murder spree." Which is why I threw a truism at a bad argument: to indicate my contempt for it.

All I see is "semantics"

This point is so obvious, I can't believe that people argue against it....

The following statement is true.

The preceding statement is false.

Let's argue about it for four more pages.

But it does get better.

You forget that we are all human beings capable from learning from our mistakes, and as a society, we (should, but it takes a long time to do so) adapt to new ideas and accept them (eventually).

As for the bullying part, since you have no idea what the kid went through, you should remain silent. I'm sure most of us here have (I for one did), so we can say that the kid is using "oh poor me, I'm bullied, I'm going to shoot everyone and myself to cure this" excuse as a crutch.

And if you think that being an adolescent is hard, then you are an idiot for thinking that it could be different for anyone else. Everyone goes through the same thing, so how can it be anything different than "life" if everyone does it? That is akin to saying that breathing is a bother, eating is tiresome, and sleeping is a pain in the ***. That is when you need to grow a pair and stop bitching about life.

We already went past NINE PAGES!!!!

When haven't discussed Asperger's syndrome for nine pages though...

I mean everyone is an expert in Psychology so let the wild speculation begin.

I submit that this is inaccurate and has a confirmation bias on this forum because we're all -- to some degree -- video game nerds.

There are 40-year-olds out there that absolutely long for their high school days back as a star quarterback with the cutest girl in school on their arm. There's even multiple songs about it. (See: Bruce Springsteen, "Glory Days")

Those were for some people, those were in fact the best days of their lives.*

*"Summer of 69", Bryan Adams

My high school experience was just like all those terrible high school movies.

Ah, but what role did you play!?

You were the nerdy white girl who gets turned into a beautiful social butterfly with makeup and a montage, weren't you!?

Extremely cheesy with the corniest of pick up lines, and bad hair wielding menaces?

No but I did have a montage.

Frankly, I'm not going to deny I had my own violent thoughts toward some of the *** who tormented me for a lot of years from elementary school on up, but that ***dissapated around 10th grade and puberty hit us all equally at that point...and all of a sudden the ones making fun of me felt maybe it wasn't a good idea to pick on someone who can manhandle you.

Though I still laugh out loud, long and hard, every time I think about the fact that one of my junior high bullies is serving 25 years for multiple large-scale indictments for drug dealing.

I'm sure everyone has their own kind of horror story from high school that they'd rather not live through again.

Personally, if I had the choice to go back and do it all again, I probably would, since it gave great impact to how I turned out as a person, and how I viewed things growing up.

I have my own horror stories, but I'd rather not bore anyone with the details of being the big kid - I was tall all the way from grade 4 to grad - that every little shitstain and his cronies wanted to fight, most often as a group, and come to school the next day how each one of them beat me up individually, when all they did was throw rocks, punches, and ice-packed snowballs, before readily having their *** handed to them.

You misunderstood.

Everyone goes through adolescence period of their lives. The changes of their bodies, the social pressures, the feeling that they aren't accepted in their society, and so on.

It doesn't matter if you were a jock, a nerd, a nobody, a goth, a pervert, or whatnot. We all went through it all, that's just life.

How we dealt with it is what defines us, and what makes us different.

Ah, well. Fair enough I suppose.

That I got through high school without a criminal record is an achievement in and of itself, given the people I hung around with for several years.

I almost had a criminal record.

However, karma kind of shone on me that day, and gave it to the *** who put me in a "death ring" at school one day, even though the administrators (namely the VP and guidance councilor) wanted to have the police charge me, since the only visible damage was done to the aggressor.

The officer in charged of the investigation was one I was already familiar with - but she determined I had the right to fight for my life, so they couldn't charge me for criminal activity.

I was still expelled though. Went through behavioral schools and programs roughly 5 times from grade 6 to 10. Each time, the observers and behavioral specialists determined I didn't belong there, since there was evidence of self-defense, and not anger issues.

Always has been a major issue with bullying to me. Even if you're physically bullied, if you fight back and win, then you're the one in trouble for hurting another student.

What a joke.

Only time I really got in trouble was when this kid, who was in the same class as I was, didn't want to go home, and we took a late bus home together (we were on the same bus route).

So, we were outside goofing off (playing football) when the bus came around the corner and I mentioned it to him and the guy who released us to go home. I went to my locker (also right next to the administration office) to get my stuff when he comes inside shouting at me because he didn't want to go home.

Since he is shouting, of course every secretary in the office is going to go out to look at what is going on. What they don't see is that he is throwing punches at me, but what they do see is me pushing him out of the way (he was 4'11, I was at the time 6'4) to go home. He sees the secretaries because he was facing them, and they were to my back, so he acts like I punched him and he starts crying. I walk towards the bus (not knowing the secretaries were there at the time) and get on the bus (waiting for the other kid to get on so we can get going). We wait for a little bit and the rent-a-cop that the school has comes up in the bus and tells the driver that he is taking me into custody.

I end up getting arrested for assault, even though I have a couple of bruises on my arms and chest (he couldn't reach my face when he was punching me), and the other kid had no marks from me (his marks was from his father beating him previously, but the marks were old), so the charges got dropped...eventually.

Mom and Dad had to pick me up from jail. That was the only time I ever got arrested and thrown into the pokey. And I never forgot about that (nor the time in kindergarden school where I sent a kid to the hospital for punching him in the nose, and that leaves a mark on your soul more than any arrests to a kid/adult).

Yeah, been in many of those situations myself, though I've never been arrested.

Maybe there's something wrong with my wiring, but frankly I'd feel nothing but satisfcation sending someone who bullied and/or started ***with me to the hospital. (edit: admittedly, kindergarten is a little young for that sort of neurological development to process a situation like that)

In actual practice I gave as well as I got in most fights, though I definitely lost a few. (Protip: standing up to bullies who are really atheletic and come from rough homes is a sure way to get your *** beat). That said, there was never anything more than black eyes and bloody noses/lips.

Luckily, however, I grew up in an area that was a little "behind the times", and boys getting in fights was just boys getting in fights. It was just something that happened.

I was only one generation removed from a high school principle who, if he caught boys fighting, would drag them to the gym, put boxing gloves on them and tell them to sort it out.

I hate fighting, and I never result to violence (after kindergarden).

That is why I was bullied so much. Who couldn't resist picking on a tall, muscular kid who refused to fight back?

My dad was the same way, but he grew up in a rough area, and reform school, where he learned to box against soldiers. That said, I don't remember him ever telling me that he'd won any of those.

If kids are going to fight, I'd rather it be fair and one on one. That said, I was always ganged up on, and had to learn measures on how to quickly end a fight either before it began, or immediately after it started.

I was bullied one time by an older kid who knew Muay Thai kickboxing. Stood up to him, and thoroughly got my *** handed to me, but he never badgered me again once I did. I went home with a lot of bruises and a black eye, but I can gladly say I never once fell over or gave up, even if I didn't land a single hit.

By Grade 11 though, I was often referred to, or treated as a bouncer in my school. Not because I was a fighter or anything, but because I could shut people down without being violent. Even people bigger than me.

I remember one time, the ex-girlfriend of a bully of mine, brought another guy to our school at lunch time - he brought a sword with him that he had made himself. Was pretty shoddy, but the blade itself was enough to do some serious damage. God damn it sucked having to be the good guy when I wanted him to taste some of that fear he instilled in me and others he bullied. So instead, I do the right thing, and stand up to his would-be aggressor, to try and reason with him. So I get to talking with him about swords. Even after he'd threatened to cut me with it if I didn't get out of his way.

If you think I'm brave or fearless because of this. *** You. I was terrified, because this *** was serious, I just had to find something to get him to talk about and calm down.

I hate fighting as well, but there are times when it becomes necessary to defend yourself. That said, I don't go over the line. I have done it a few times, but I've learned to find signs of agitation, and ways to control the anger - that those useless anger management classes never teach.

I found out in high school that if you want to avoid fighting, sometimes you gotta give someone a good scare. Then it's not a problem since everyone thinks you'll go crazy. But don't scare 'em too much it seems these days. But you always have to be prepared to fight in case it doesn't work. Idk if this helps, lol.

HS was a slow burn that took me from being a relatively evenhanded kid into a depressed mess who eventually just started ditching school cause outside the faux relationships I had with 'friends' I felt the whole thing was a waste of time. I wasn't a terrible student but being around everyone else was such a chore. What's funny is XI was the perfect escape for me, a world where I felt I had better friends and prospects.

I suspect if HS had went better for me, I'd have never played XI as long as I did and experienced everything that unfolded from it. It helped the GF at the time was also cutting school frequently to be emo.

As for bullying? Didn't experience much outside the verbal but the few times I felt like it went over the edge I just stole peoples things or destroyed their property when they weren't looking. Dumped a couple bookbags I took out of the locker rooms into the trash, stole a few graphing calculators too. *** move in retrospect.

I felt very much the same way for the first 2 years or so. What made it worse was that during the summers I was a camper at, and later worked at, a great summer camp where I had good friends but obviously due to distances involved I only saw them during the summer and had nothing similar back home. I ended up retreating to a MUD (text-only MMOs, yay!) as FFXI-like MMOs were a pipe dream of a madman at the time. (Warcraft 2 had been out about a year).

Luckily I ended up meeting my now-wife through a mutual "friend" and sort of got absorbed into their group (band kids, yay) and became a musician myself.

I'm very, very lucky to have my wife. She was a very stabilizing force in my life at a time I desperately needed it. She helped balance out a lot of the anger and bitterness I had at the time. I likely would have ended up traveling a much different road without her. Not really a classic "bad egg" story by far, but college, career, friends, and interests would have been much different.

Is this now the share your life thread? Maybe it's wrong of me to think this but as far as I can tell everyone in highschool was either a bully or an outcast and thus bullied. Is there anyone in the middle? Kinda like it's impossible to not be on one side or the other..probably an exageration, I know but I'd say it's like that at least most of the time.
I was an outcast too(shocking, I know), bullied intensively(and it went way 'over the line' as you word it), but I never really did anything back. Other than having a complete inability to hurt another person on purpose(and if I'm being attacked either I flee, or if I cant run just cover my head and beg for mercy -pride doesn't matter much if you're in danger), I just was convinced they will eventually stop because, despite everything I never did anything to them. And I kept believing it for all 5 years until only graduation separated us.
I just will never be able to understand what joy a person finds in scarring another for life. It's a limit of mine, but it's beyond me.

Some people are wired that way.

And it's not necessarily about pride when fighting back, but about personal safety.

People will use pride as an excuse to pick a fight over the smallest disagreements. Yet, abandoning that pride can cost you just as much.

It really depends on your point of view, or whether you are mentally capable of hurting another in any way, regardless of physical capabilities to do so.

There are those who sit on the sidelines and watch, unable to decide whether they should stop the bullying or not, due to various reasons. Sometimes it's about self preservation from physical harm, or social suicide.

There are multitudes of problems with being in the middle, as there are for being a bully, and for being a victim. It can seriously strain relationships, and turning a blind eye to what's happening, is often the only sign a bully needs that no one is willing to challenge them on what's right/wrong or acceptable/unacceptable.

During my high school years, I chose to step in to stop bullying. It made me a bigger target than I already was in grade 10, but people started looking up to me, like I was some kind of pillar. In my school, I was the only one willing to go that far. It landed me a lot of suspensions just for being involved, since that was the policy.

By pride I meant the begging to stop part.