Cancer Cured? (Stanford)

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Cancer cured? (Stanford)
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 12:34:37
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Keep in mind cell-phones are non-ionizing radiation (ionizing radiation is known to be a contributing factor for DNA/tissue damage). To date, there has been no conclusive evidence (section 4) that cell phones contribute to cancer.

What that means is that there is no real way to point out the cell phone as the cause, even if the cancer was located in approximately the same location (Note, it was the location of the phone, not the antenna). And unfortunately, when dealing of a overall sample size of millions(if not billions), despite the personal hardship she has had to go through, the impact on a few tens is not enough to draw any conclusions.
I understand that, but coincidence is coincidence still. It could be a leading factor to breast cancer, it could not. But to deny that someone is going to lose their life over a phone in a bra is no laughing matter either. Prevention through others.
Acutally, that's the entire point. There is no conclusive evidence that the cell phone in the bra will cause the person to lose their life.
This is just conjecture.
I'm not saying that having it there will cause you to die. What I'm saying is the coincidence and facts of THIS case add up to the conclusion that the phone did cause it. Does this happen with everyone? Nope. And you're right that it's on such a small scale to even care. But it is alarming to know that something like this can happen.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-13 12:38:42
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Science's job is to remove the word "Coincidence" form the human lexicon, so color me unimpressed with your deathbra.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 12:40:00
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Science's job is to remove the word "Coincidence" form the human lexicon, so color me unimpressed with your deathbra.
It still hasn't though, that's the problem. :|
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-13 12:42:01
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Science's job is to remove the word "Coincidence" form the human lexicon, so color me unimpressed with your deathbra.
It still hasn't though, that's the problem. :|

What can I say, humans are amazing at perpetuating stupidity. There's an entire industry based on coincidental medicine, it's called homeopathy. I touched the goat's head before surgery, and I lived, had to be the juju right?
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-07-13 12:43:05
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I'm not saying that having it there will cause you to die. What I'm saying is the coincidence and facts of THIS case add up to the conclusion that the phone did cause it. Does this happen with everyone? Nope. And you're right that it's on such a small scale to even care. But it is alarming to know that something like this can happen.
That's the thing... the facts of THIS case didn't add up to the conclusion that the cell phone caused it.

For that to the be the case, the method of inducing the cancer needs to be proven.

Right now, the only tie between cancer and the phone is the location, and that is insufficient to prove or declare causation. If someone is doing that off a single case, they are a quack.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-07-13 12:46:28
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Science's job is to remove the word "Coincidence" form the human lexicon, so color me unimpressed with your deathbra.
It still hasn't though, that's the problem. :|

Science can't, won't, and shouldn't remove "Coincidence" from the human lexicon.

What it should do is educate people that "coincidence" is not enough to evaluate or make decisions off of with any degree of reliability, or expectation of a defined result.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 12:47:04
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I'm not saying that having it there will cause you to die. What I'm saying is the coincidence and facts of THIS case add up to the conclusion that the phone did cause it. Does this happen with everyone? Nope. And you're right that it's on such a small scale to even care. But it is alarming to know that something like this can happen.
That's the thing... the facts of THIS case didn't add up to the conclusion that the cell phone caused it.

For that to the be the case, the method of inducing the cancer needs to be proven.

Right now, the only tie between cancer and the phone is the location, and that is insufficient to prove or declare causation. If someone is doing that off a single case, they are a quack.
You're absolutely right. They even said they don't know the cause, that's up to speculation.

It's the insinuation that the phone caused it, and even the woman herself said it makes sense.

I'm not saying that IS the apparent cause.. as it could be something else. I'm saying it's shocking to think that it could be.
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
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By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2013-07-13 12:48:09
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Inb4 big pharma takes control of this, or decides to shove it under a rug to continue making billions off cancer patients :/.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-13 12:50:36
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I was going to say something along the lines of "Where'd the woman go to medical school." But I have reservations about medical school that'd make it a bit more hypocritical than I usually tolerate.
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 12:53:18
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
I was going to say something along the lines of "Where'd the woman go to medical school." But I have reservations about medical school that'd make it a bit more hypocritical than I usually tolerate.
I was thinking the same thing, but when dealing with something with no apparent cause, the mind starts to put things together and come up with conclusions.

Now, if they said "well cancer is in my family", there ya go. With the facts presented and no clear indication on how it happened, the mind wanders.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-13 13:14:33
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Lakshmi.Glaciont said: »
Inb4 big pharma takes control of this, or decides to shove it under a rug to continue making billions off cancer patients :/.


I wish we didn't live in a world where stuff like this held an argument.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-07-13 13:15:00
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Now, if they said "well cancer is in my family", there ya go. With the facts presented and no clear indication on how it happened, the mind wanders.
And this is the huge problem.

Part of being a professional in the field is to know the common flaws in reasoning, and being vigilant against them.
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 13:19:06
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Now, if they said "well cancer is in my family", there ya go. With the facts presented and no clear indication on how it happened, the mind wanders.
And this is the huge problem.

Part of being a professional in the field is to know the common flaws in reasoning, and being vigilant against them.
And when people rely too much on a single person to tell them what's wrong, and that single person doesn't even know, maybe it's time to consult someone else.

This whole segment is based on speculation, and the mind starts to think "can that happen..?", when it shouldn't be.

*** unanswered questions. Always go with C.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-07-13 13:35:18
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Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
Obesity needs a cure !

Start by closing down terrible fast-food restaurants like McDonalds.

Then, idk, create some drug that eats fat, or something.

Nah, "all" you really need to do from a health standpoint is cure diabetes.
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 14:28:50
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
Obesity needs a cure !

Start by closing down terrible fast-food restaurants like McDonalds.

Then, idk, create some drug that eats fat, or something.

Nah, "all" you really need to do from a health standpoint is cure diabetes.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2013-07-13 14:43:03
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
The questions I have is, this about the anti-CD47 antibody that you'd give the patients. That signal given by CD47 must exist for something else too....

Quote:
A protein called CD47 tells the body not to "eat" the cancer, ....

What CD47 does that is important here is act as a shield. Otherwise the cancer cells would signal "I'm sick, destroy me" to the immune system. (I forget the name of the signaling protein.) There seem to be at least 7 mutations a cell must make to become a malignant cancer. One early, and necessary step, is to make CD47.

To the best of my limited knowledge, CD47 isn't found elsewhere.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2013-07-13 15:52:17
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Lakshmi.Glaciont said: »
Inb4 big pharma takes control of this, or decides to shove it under a rug to continue making billions off cancer patients :/.

There's a guy in India with a pretty solid male sterilization method that is largely painless, lacks residual pain or problems and is thus far extremely successful in testing. And it's reversible.

We'll never see it here. Prophylactics are too lucrative.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-07-13 15:52:36
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While there are a couple of things that it is known they do, that's the purpose of the trials as you never really know for sure what all could be affected or to what degree in a varied range of subjects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD47

Can see a few of the interactions it takes place in here.
 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-07-13 19:00:05
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What most people don't realize is that cancer tissue is largely embryonic tissue. During development, we need rapidly developing cells to create masses quickly, then the gene gets shut off or dampened tremendously. The fact that the tissue is innate is precisely why the immune system doesn't care if it exists. The immune system sees (ideally) antigens (loosely speaking) as "foreign" or "self". If it is seen as "self", it is ignored. "Foreign" triggers an immune response. Getting the immune system to target "self" tissues is the key to this kind of immunotherapy. CD47 is ubiquitous and nothing special. It doesn't really act as a shield because you can have any number of "self" proteins expressed outside the cell membrane and the cell will still be marked for destruction if a "foreign" protein is found. You can see similar reactions with blood types. If you are AB, you have A and B antigens, so if you donate blood to an AA or AO recipient, your B antigens will still trigger hemolysis. However, AB can receive blood from A or B donors, since they have no anti-A or anti-B immunoglobulins to initiate attack.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-13 19:16:12
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So, if I understand correctly, in order to fight it properly, we have to almost attack ourselves? Kinda like a retrovirus (I think it's called that?) to kill the cancer completely.
 Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-07-13 19:27:14
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
So, if I understand correctly, in order to fight it properly, we have to almost attack ourselves? Kinda like a retrovirus (I think it's called that?) to kill the cancer completely.
More or less. Chemo targets dividing cells, so it disproportionately kills cancer cells relative to healthy cells, but still does a lot of damage. Some of these are platinum-based, which is a major cause of expense, not "big pharm".
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-07-14 01:11:16
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
What most people don't realize is that cancer tissue is largely embryonic tissue.
I think you mean originates from tissue stem cells?
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
So, if I understand correctly, in order to fight it properly, we have to almost attack ourselves? Kinda like a retrovirus (I think it's called that?) to kill the cancer completely.
More or less. Chemo targets dividing cells, so it disproportionately kills cancer cells relative to healthy cells, but still does a lot of damage. Some of these are platinum-based, which is a major cause of expense, not "big pharm".
Most or all of the *platin chemo should have generic forms now, which should drive the price lower. Except when, you know, a company actively and illegally abuses the system to keep the price high.
 
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By 2013-07-14 09:56:30
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By Jetackuu 2013-07-14 10:00:57
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Lakshmi.Ryanx said: »
If this does cure cancer this will never reach the people the medical systems make a fortune with kemo and radiation and so sergery's. there has been natrual cures for cancer for a long time but they do not want you to know about it because they can not make money

I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs and people insanely rich/powerful like him would have had their cancer cured if there was really one. If there was a cure for cancer, pharma's would be all over it and overprice the ***out of it, be glad you are Canadian.

If I remember correctly, the type of cancer that killed Steve was treatable, he decided to go with alternative medicine. Marketing genius, not so great on the gambling.

Steve Jobs had pancreatic cancer, the currently most deadly form of cancer with a survival rate below 3%. Obviously he'll try alternative medicine if the treatments weren't working.
there's different types of pancreatic cancer, his had a high survival rate with appropriate treatment, apparently.
 
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By Jetackuu 2013-07-14 10:13:11
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pretty sure I read that his best chance was surgery, but It was really meant as a joke man, I don't care that much. If what I read was wrong then so be it, I'll concede.

I still think somebody had to try the demo "iCoffin"
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