Guillotine Question

Yet you have to waste more potential at mamool by means of pulling back more and potentially dying <_< also, if all of your DD are capped on Attack, means faster kills, means you can kill Wivre, means you can get higher exp/hr etc etc~

So MJSP = Death
and Birds = Everyone is equally leet.

Thats a beautiful summation on how to be a socialist wimp.

If that's what you call getting better exp <_<

The more you have to hold back, the less damage you do, the less stuff dies yadayadayada.

Why would anyone want to go to a camp with greater risk, lower maximum exp per hour and which requires better players/gear when there is an easier camp right there?

You can burn Wyverns in the past or somewhere if you want to repeat the formula somewhere else, but don't expect it to be the better camp.

Birds: Higher average for a pickup party.

MJSP: Higher maximum for a distinguishably above-average party when camped closer to the Mamool instead of being noobs and staying by the doors, not having to deal with Puk agro except to rebuild chains, and not pulling Skoffins by choice. Uncoincidentally gives less exp/hr than bird camp when people apply their regular bird camp setups and ideals or bring average DDs.

Birds+Wivres: About the same as MJSP until the Attack down draws out a fight.

Thar, that better?

I'm about 99.9% sure the only reason anyone would ever do Mamool Ja is because the Greater Colibri are taken.

Attack Down is a hell of a lot better than AoE Dispel.

And what is so different about mamool vs birds setupwise? Both use the same setups, same SJs... if you are suggesting a more conservative subjob for mamool, only weakens your point. If you are suggesting one for birds, then idk what to say.

You cannot achieve a higher maximum especially if you are not killing -everything-!

You yourself often state that you are just your "average" DRK, yet you say that if you "bring average DDs" to mamool, you will get less xp/hr than bird camp... and then say that I can't have achieved good exp/hr at mamools?

I don't get it.

'Average DDs' based on type for the situation. DRG is an 'average' DD at mamool. THF is an 'average' DD most of the time. Any DD /NIN is 'average'.

Its the inverse for DRK and WAR when properly equipped, they become average DD at birds. This is because attack buffing falls flat once you smack the cap on a debuffed bird, which breaks both of these jobs down the middle for JA usability. 'Holding back' is not the concept, its the goddamn mob that holds these jobs back.

The higher maximum exp is there, mathematically, just not the higher average for standard parties. Birds are 'easy mode'. Even with an average setup, MJSP is still better than a contested (I've seen six parties at once) camp at birds, per Eternius's comment.

The only difference between Mamool and birds is that it slightly messes up the 2h > 1h continuum, that being that Thief shoots up near the 2handers when normally it's down with the other 1handers. Polearm SAM also pushes dominance here along with DRG very slightly behind, and RNG shoots up.

Other than that, there is little difference <_< DRK loses Attack occasionally, if overdose of Attack is an issue on WAR, switch into Polearm and use sushi ... or hell, demand different buffs. So many different ways you can do it.

An empty camp is better than a full one, no *** <_< but if both are empty, birds are better.

You know WAR can just use Polearm and Penta makes huge use of that huge attack right? Even aggressor to make up for that 240 skill unlike SAM, WAR isn't avg at birds, even Gaxe is very good on birds.

Edit**


That basically.

Not sure if anyone has said it at this point, I'm sure someone has but I'm too lazy to scroll up.

Camp cons
Mamool Ja Staging Point:
Puks
AoE massive knockback (Wind Shear)
AoE massive Blind (Obfuscate)
6x Shadows (Zephyr Mantle)
Rediculously low exp

Mamool Ja
Single-target 800+ damage (Firespit)
Single-target 1000+ damage (Rushing Slash/Stab/Drub)
EVA+40 (Warm Up)
AoE Nukes (Mamool BLM)
AoE Poison (Mamool BLM)
Shock spikes ~90% proc rate on Stun (Mamool BLM)
Massive EVA (Mamool NIN/THF)
Utsusemi (Mamool NIN)

Nyzul Isle Bhaflau Thickets:
Colibri
Single target mildly annoying (Feather Tickle)
Waste of TP (Snatch Morsel)
Single target ~300 damage (Pecking Flurry)

COR+DRK should be banned from play for being God Tier.

Because Third Eye is always up indicating you are using Seigan indicating you are not almost always fulltiming Hasso like you can at birds!

And on the very slim (as any SAM will tell you, it's very slim) chance that your Third Eye fails you, you're dead. Where did the exp go?

Eva Up is also acc+ so you might hit the wrong buff with Dispel... and with the extreme exp/hr you're getting, the COR won't be able to dispel all of this.

Easier to dispel Warm Up than drop the Acc roll since theres nothing else to dispel on most Mamool.

Whats so hard about /ja "Dark Shot" <t>?

SeriouslyGuys.jpg, its like you've never seen a COR+DRK party.

Why are you using Acc roll? What happened to wanting Mamool to exercise DRK's Chaos Roll capabilities? Don't tell me you're replacing Corsair's...

Because the COR gets 2 Dark Shots every now and again and since you are getting 43k/hr, your rate of pulling is FRANTIC. You're expecting them to fire 2 Dark Shots (sometimes) at a Warm Up and 1 at every Shock Spikes, and the mamools must die in about 15~ or so seconds each to get that exp.

I party with CORs all of the time on DRK...

You also seem to ignore his Seigan ~ Hasso and Third Eye being somewhat fail points.

It's easier to have nothing to dispel in the first place then to dispel something, and if you dispel the acc part of warm up, they have +40 eva still, which is going to hurt ur acc.

Its also easier to go to a bird camp and not have to do any of the things you have said, and get = to or better exp with less risk and less chainbreaks, with less then spectacular players.

43k/hr was the comparison baseline. Just forget the concept Raen, it went over your head.

Short version: MJSP isn't limited by the number of mobs and their spawn rate, if you camp in the right spot.

Each mob should be dead to just about the same number of WS, and thus dead in the same amount of time, as birds. Mobs that give more exp in this situation = more exp over time.

Knock of this anecdotal eyeball *** with the exp/hr estimates.

1. DRK is wasted potential at birds. 2. You can indeed get more exp/hr out of MJSP with a proper setup (on the order of WHM BRD COR DRK DRK DRK). Deny this and I proclaim you a curmudgeon and a public-opinion-titsucker. The forum keeps eating my posts and I'm getting sick of writing things eight times to make up for Raen not reading them when they do finally go through.

I am well aware of how you calculate accuracy, where do you think the original "you need 80 accuracy in gear to reach the cap" came from, a wild guess?

The WS gear choices were supposed to be bad, to illustrate the point that most 'AH DD' aren't well geared and haven't got well thought out gear sets.

Even if you used potent belt and some other hand piece you will still only have ~40 acc for your WS set, so still ~40acc short for the cap.

Sushi, really? You lol @ me for saying that DRK without EG gear will have low acc and then tell me they should spam sushi while meriting... lol

So basically you accept my point that AH DD needs more accuracy?

As for the haste; Swift belt is hardly End game gear. Sure its a great piece which will be used forever (unless you get lucky with KA or KSNM puts out). It can be tricky to get, but you only need 2-5 friends and a few hours, and some luck.

I have merited(as RDM) in nearly any conceivable combo of jobs ranging from 4 Relic DDs + Ghorn BRD to PUPs wearing Fang necklace, and everything in between.

And IMO:
Birds > Mamool Ja Staging Point

Better EXP rate because: easier healing, less risk, less stoppages (dispelling buffs/deaths/MP). I have had some great Mamool partys, but they are rare and birds are ALWAYS my camp of choice.

Sure you could argue that a very good party can cope better than at mamools than a poor party and that you are 'wasting potential' fighting weak birds. But you are missing the point of meriting, which is get exp. It is harder to get reps to mamool (especially picky bards) and I find people burn out faster. Which combined with the risk and MP issues all reduces your total exp gained.

And before any one screams 'Get a better healer', in my meriting gear ~1100MP with 2MP/tic refresh (with sanction) and have capped convert timer. Short of a Dalamatica or morrigan's robe there is very little that could make me last longer before running out of MP.

Predictable like the tides.

Just because you think it, doesn't make it a fact. I prefer birds over Mamool having done both a lot(and I'LL be damned if someone tries to tell me what I should prefer). If I get a pt with people that know what they are doing, sure I'll go to MJSP because Puk are squishy and its nice to see inflated numbers now and again, but all the amount you go running around calling everyone else "lol" on this server and yourself "average", when MJSP takes top tier players to be better, how would you have ever seen those better pts? Top tier players don't do pick up merit pts.



And this. You seem to be forgetting the EXP itself may be math, but you can't calculate the time it takes to get said upper tier pts, probably more then twice as long as a DD, so in the time you got 1.5x the exp, you lost out of more then that LFP longer and repping people etc.

No, 43k/hr was *** <_<



Neither is birds if you do birds and wivre. You said you've never heard/experienced a bird camp doing Wivre but I have and I've experienced a full wipe of mamool - why are you trying to tell me I haven't experienced things when you haven't experienced the top part of bird camp?



Mamool are somewhat more durable than birds with their buffing moves and you have to play more conservatively which you acknowledged yourself with your Seigan/Third Eye bit so no, you're not killing as fast.



You're the one supplying a ridiculous exp/hr figure whereas mine are realistic.



Get the Lazarus Firefox plugin! I love that thing. Recovers forms if they get eaten.

I'd like a WAR in there instead of one of the DRKs so it can Provoke.

You are of course meritting with March/March/Chaos/Corsair right? Just making sure, because it makes me laugh when people talk about top tier parties and then have March/Minuet rather than March/March.

I won't quote Raen, as it would get silly, but basically; all of what he said^

For mamools to be better you need to camp in the middle with no one else there with a PT that can destroy Skoffins quickly. The best meripo I ever had was at MMJSP middle but we had a great setup and it was empty.