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The mentally disabled state of Texas (Loud and clear)
By Blazed1979 2013-07-09 16:53:40
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »What I was saying is start small, and work the way up.
Can't expect to fix everything at once.
Start small, then get to the bigger problems.
You might not think that it will make a difference, but in the long run it will.
I'm done responding to you by the way.
This^.
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric.
[+]
 Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-09 16:53:56
There's no empirical evidence that I've seen that shows systemic welfare fraud or dysfunction. I've looked and I've asked people who are ardently opposed to it to show me some and I've yet to see it.
i just want to point out that absence of evidence is only proof that nobody is recording it , not that the evidence does or doesn't exist. You pointed out nothing. The people who made the claim have the responsibility to prove it.
And in this case the the absence of evidence is a fairly strong bellwether because if there was evidence you could be sure that there would be groups rallying all over with it.
Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-09 16:54:42
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric.
Because that's been the policy for a very long time and it has failed to work.
Also, in subsidizing people the larger the pool the better.
[+]
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1837
By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-09 16:55:22
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »No, but you found someone that says Obama has dragged it out for five years. He focused on the job-killing Obamacare instead of the recession. If it was indeed the greatest recession, by virtue of it being the greatest wouldn't you think that maybe it should have been his primary focus? Just called the greatest now since he failed. I usually just enjoy your posts and plus them, cause they usually get under skin of others, but this one, I agree with. Why was he not spending more time on Fixing the Economy instead of pushing Obamacare?????
Anyways back to lurking. I don't get it. A common criticism on these boards is that it's a 24/7 liberal "circle-jerk", and it's not really disputed that many of us here lean towards that ideology. So wouldn't the conservatives here want someone who could articulate and support (with actual *** citations) that viewpoint instead of someone whose one-trick show is partisan antagonism? (Then there's Tenshibaby and his amazing 'Biasplanic' map, but he really belongs in his own category.) It would be nice, sadly, I can't articulate worth a dam my thoughts. Even worse being typed. Comes out like diarrhea. That being said, Aman does seem to wind you up really well with thoughts I lean towards, so I can settle for that. Its a losing battle but least he's out there giving it a shot and I commend him for not stopping.
In regards to that other person mentioned, I won't read their posts much so I can't really give him/her/it a [+] (not like mine matter anyways). Tho I do [+] You and a few others that don't share a "Conservative" view because the posts are either good, funny, or respectable. Hell, yours usually all 3. Just some others tend to come off so set in their ways, much like Aman, but on the opposite end. So its kinda like watching a losing food fight of people hurling stuff at each other, and silly me cheering on the under dog knowing he will lose. ^^ I do love a good ***fest, I'll give you that! All I know is whenever I see the name Pleebo on the front FFXIAH page, I click on it knowing it will be awesome.
[+]
 Siren.Flavin
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-09 16:56:18
Oh and with SS... Only certain career paths (such as teachers in the public schools) don't pay into it but you have to file for the benefits so no one would really have to collect either...
The whole problem with SS is poor planning... no one really expected so many people to be living past 65 lol...
[+]
 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-09 16:57:08
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »What I was saying is start small, and work the way up.
Can't expect to fix everything at once.
Start small, then get to the bigger problems.
You might not think that it will make a difference, but in the long run it will.
I'm done responding to you by the way.
This^.
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric. They can, to some extent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/06/the-daily-show-on-a-tennessee-health-care-lottery-program-video/
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-09 16:58:00
Oh and with SS... Only certain career paths (such as teachers in the public schools) don't pay into it but you have to file for the benefits so no one would really have to collect either...
The whole problem with SS is poor planning... no one really expected so many people to be living past 65 lol...
The problem is congress uses the money paid into social security as an interest free loan.
[+]
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2013-07-09 17:03:11
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric.
Because that's been the policy for a very long time and it has failed to work.
Also, in subsidizing people the larger the pool the better.
Once the "pool" is large enough to represent the population as a whole, it doesn't really matter. The key here is to get people into the pool that don't need to be there. One of the "problems" is that too many people who don't need health insurance weren't buying it - but that'll be "fixed" next year. Or 2015. Or never - it's really hard to guess.
[+]
By Blazed1979 2013-07-09 17:03:11
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »What I was saying is start small, and work the way up.
Can't expect to fix everything at once.
Start small, then get to the bigger problems.
You might not think that it will make a difference, but in the long run it will.
I'm done responding to you by the way.
This^.
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric. They can, to some extent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/06/the-daily-show-on-a-tennessee-health-care-lottery-program-video/
Holy.. this is real? LMFAO
[+]
Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-09 17:04:33
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »What I was saying is start small, and work the way up.
Can't expect to fix everything at once.
Start small, then get to the bigger problems.
You might not think that it will make a difference, but in the long run it will.
I'm done responding to you by the way.
This^.
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric. They can, to some extent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/06/the-daily-show-on-a-tennessee-health-care-lottery-program-video/
Holy.. this is real? LMFAO
[+]
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-09 17:05:58
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »What I was saying is start small, and work the way up.
Can't expect to fix everything at once.
Start small, then get to the bigger problems.
You might not think that it will make a difference, but in the long run it will.
I'm done responding to you by the way.
This^.
On a side note, for the Americans in the house that are familiar with state vs federal funding, why can't individual states determine their approach on healthcare?
Why does this have to be decided at the federal level?
I'm sincerely asking here, not rhetoric. They can, to some extent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/06/the-daily-show-on-a-tennessee-health-care-lottery-program-video/
Holy.. this is real? LMFAO
Yes.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1837
By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-09 17:13:02
Man, and I was hoping you'd have to play roulette or poker for your shot.
That at least would have been cool. D:
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2013-07-09 17:40:19
There's no empirical evidence that I've seen that shows systemic welfare fraud or dysfunction. I've looked and I've asked people who are ardently opposed to it to show me some and I've yet to see it. i just want to point out that absence of evidence is only proof that nobody is recording it , not that the evidence does or doesn't exist. You pointed out nothing. The people who made the claim have the responsibility to prove it. And in this case the the absence of evidence is a fairly strong bellwether because if there was evidence you could be sure that there would be groups rallying all over with it.
You know as well as anyone the inequality in outrage, I tend to agree there is likely very little documented or undocumented abuse and disfunction, but absence of evidence still isn't proof of anything but absence of evidence.
Keep in mind, too, that lax laws and poorly defined qualifications can lead to a lot of LEGAL abuse of the system as was the case with the girl who won the lottery.
Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-09 17:47:16
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that can be found. My point wasn't that there was never abuse, it's just not widespread. And the slightly more widespread minor abuses that do occur (someone buying cigarettes with a food stamp debit card), aren't worth enforcing. Creating databases that link any food stamp card to prevent purchases of cigarettes with it are, at least in the short term, not worth the expense.
A small sidenote. Iirc, the woman who stayed on food stamps/welfare after the lottery, was not doing so legally. She was legally required to report changes in income to her welfare provider. What we lacked there was a problem with enforcement, not a problem with the law. Enforcement is the larger challenge, and will get eventually resolved. You are legally restricted from buying certain things with food stamps, but people buy stuff theyre not supposed to anyway.
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 1837
By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-09 17:48:14
Keep in mind, too, that lax laws and poorly defined qualifications can lead to a lot of LEGAL abuse of the system as was the case with the girl who won the lottery. if you give people things, they will absolutely keep taking until they are told no.
Just gotta say "no". Magical word that's unheard of nowadays.
[+]
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-07-09 18:31:55
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »No, but you found someone that says Obama has dragged it out for five years. He focused on the job-killing Obamacare instead of the recession. If it was indeed the greatest recession, by virtue of it being the greatest wouldn't you think that maybe it should have been his primary focus? Just called the greatest now since he failed. I usually just enjoy your posts and plus them, cause they usually get under skin of others, but this one, I agree with. Why was he not spending more time on Fixing the Economy instead of pushing Obamacare?????
Anyways back to lurking. I don't get it. A common criticism on these boards is that it's a 24/7 liberal "circle-jerk", and it's not really disputed that many of us here lean towards that ideology. So wouldn't the conservatives here want someone who could articulate and support (with actual *** citations) that viewpoint instead of someone whose one-trick show is partisan antagonism? (Then there's Tenshibaby and his amazing 'Biasplanic' map, but he really belongs in his own category.)
Yet by page 18 pretty much everyone is bitching about the size of the federal government and it's bloated budget. Just think of me as the lube.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2013-07-09 18:49:08
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that can be found. My point wasn't that there was never abuse, it's just not widespread. And the slightly more widespread minor abuses that do occur (someone buying cigarettes with a food stamp debit card), aren't worth enforcing. Creating databases that link any food stamp card to prevent purchases of cigarettes with it are, at least in the short term, not worth the expense. A small sidenote. Iirc, the woman who stayed on food stamps/welfare after the lottery, was not doing so legally. She was legally required to report changes in income to her welfare provider. What we lacked there was a problem with enforcement, not a problem with the law. Enforcement is the larger challenge, and will get eventually resolved. You are legally restricted from buying certain things with food stamps, but people buy stuff theyre not supposed to anyway.
Its possibly a different case than the one earlier in this thread, because it was a lump sum it wasn't technically income. Some politician was pushing a law through to require anyone winning a jackpot over 1000 dollars to be crossreferenced with the database for federal aide.
In any case, if there was more widespread abuse, I'd imagine there would be some proof of it, as well. I do think there is very little reason for some people to try and get off aide programs, but there are also a lot of holes in teh system that make it counterproductive to do so.
Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-09 19:11:30
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »No, but you found someone that says Obama has dragged it out for five years. He focused on the job-killing Obamacare instead of the recession. If it was indeed the greatest recession, by virtue of it being the greatest wouldn't you think that maybe it should have been his primary focus? Just called the greatest now since he failed. I usually just enjoy your posts and plus them, cause they usually get under skin of others, but this one, I agree with. Why was he not spending more time on Fixing the Economy instead of pushing Obamacare?????
Anyways back to lurking. I don't get it. A common criticism on these boards is that it's a 24/7 liberal "circle-jerk", and it's not really disputed that many of us here lean towards that ideology. So wouldn't the conservatives here want someone who could articulate and support (with actual *** citations) that viewpoint instead of someone whose one-trick show is partisan antagonism? (Then there's Tenshibaby and his amazing 'Biasplanic' map, but he really belongs in his own category.)
Yet by page 18 pretty much everyone is bitching about the size of the federal government and it's bloated budget. Just think of me as the lube.
Who is everybody?
[+]
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1837
By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-07-09 19:25:19
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »No, but you found someone that says Obama has dragged it out for five years. He focused on the job-killing Obamacare instead of the recession. If it was indeed the greatest recession, by virtue of it being the greatest wouldn't you think that maybe it should have been his primary focus? Just called the greatest now since he failed. I usually just enjoy your posts and plus them, cause they usually get under skin of others, but this one, I agree with. Why was he not spending more time on Fixing the Economy instead of pushing Obamacare?????
Anyways back to lurking. I don't get it. A common criticism on these boards is that it's a 24/7 liberal "circle-jerk", and it's not really disputed that many of us here lean towards that ideology. So wouldn't the conservatives here want someone who could articulate and support (with actual *** citations) that viewpoint instead of someone whose one-trick show is partisan antagonism? (Then there's Tenshibaby and his amazing 'Biasplanic' map, but he really belongs in his own category.)
Yet by page 18 pretty much everyone is bitching about the size of the federal government and it's bloated budget. Just think of me as the lube. UH-OH! NAUGHTY THOUGHTS! *creepy giggling*
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2013-07-09 20:40:14
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »UH-OH! NAUGHTY THOUGHTS! *creepy giggling* Like your name don't give us any...
Jury Acquits Texas Man For Murder Of Escort Who Refused Sex
A Texas jury acquitted a man for the murder of a woman he hired as an escort, after his lawyers claimed he was authorized to use deadly force because she refused sex.
Ezekiel Gilbert shot Lenora Ivie Frago in the neck on Christmas Eve, after she denied his requests for sex and wouldn’t return the $150 he had paid her, according to the San Antonio Express-News. Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,” and Gilbert’s lawyers cited that provision as justification for Gilbert’s action, reasoning that Frago had stolen $150 from him by taking his money without delivering sex. In a police interview played for jurors, Gilbert “never mentioned anything about theft,” a detective told the San Antonio Express-News. Frago, who was 21, was critically injured and died several months later.
While the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida has generated notoriety for NRA-backed Stand Your Ground laws, which authorize the unfettered use of deadly force without a duty to retreat in defense of one’s person or home, Texas’ exceedingly broad law goes well beyond this, to allow deadly force in protection of any piece of “tangible” or “movable” property.
The Texas provision authorizes deadly force not only to “retrieve stolen property at night” but also during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means.
This shockingly broad statute authorizes individuals to take not just law enforcement, but punishment, into their own hands and impose death for alleged offenses that would never warrant the death penalty even if the person were convicted in court. But even in light of the expansive vigilante justice made legal by the statute, it is difficult to see how Gilbert’s behavior was justified, given that escorts are not entitled to deliver sex under the law, and delivering sex for money is an illegal transaction.
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