SE Wants You To Bring Along "gimp" Players...

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2025-11-14
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » SE wants you to bring along "gimp" players...
SE wants you to bring along "gimp" players...
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 13 14 15
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-24 16:11:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Genesi said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Avidon said: »
but the one's saying "do skirmish", how many of these people have done skirmish, upgraded their weapon, all for the sake of Delve? I call BS. That's all.
I did. Less than 1 hour and you get a weapon that serves you well enough till you have the points for the delve one.

I did Skirmish. Two runs, got H2H and GAXE. Used Ninza to farm Delve on MNK. Put together my own Tax'et run for KI clear.

Luck plays a part, as well. I did Cirdas 8-10 times and didn't see Ninza once. Got pretty frustrating, but ended up getting the Tax'et clear not long ago and farmed to buy beads for about half the Plasm needed for Rigor. Ended up being less frustrating, and I probably didn't spend a significant amount more than I would have on Skirmish runs.

Skirmish is in a pretty good place to be bridge content (and it's actually pretty fun, I think), but they need to make it simpler to enter, I think. Tying it to Imp-whatevers probably would have positioned it better as mid-range content.
 Bismarck.Chaosprime
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-24 16:33:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Also what kind of boils my nerves is the attitude of some people. They will only "help" you get a clear for a cost. Now for the Mega Boss Delve NM's i fully accept this. Totally. No doubt about it. But charging 5mil for a t4/5 clear? wtf lol I mean i know people are desperate and want to enjoy the game but hell lol, at that point id rather quit....

You see people are saying, why should we take a gimp player or 2 and make it harder for ourselves, yet that same group is selling the KI with 3-4 slots open. So the excuse of why should i make it harder for my self is kinda mute. Taking 1 player should not affect your progress, but alas, such is the way things are lol
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-24 16:36:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If you're a dead weight you better at least have something else to offer, since your performance is worthless.
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-24 16:41:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
There was a group selling the Tax'et clear on Ragnarok for a couple nights.

They kept wiping. It was pretty funny.
 Carbuncle.Sambb
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sambb
Posts: 334
By Carbuncle.Sambb 2013-06-24 16:46:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »
Also what kind of boils my nerves is the attitude of some people. They will only "help" you get a clear for a cost. Now for the Mega Boss Delve NM's i fully accept this. Totally. No doubt about it. But charging 5mil for a t4/5 clear? wtf lol I mean i know people are desperate and want to enjoy the game but hell lol, at that point id rather quit....

You see people are saying, why should we take a gimp player or 2 and make it harder for ourselves, yet that same group is selling the KI with 3-4 slots open. So the excuse of why should i make it harder for my self is kinda mute. Taking 1 player should not affect your progress, but alas, such is the way things are lol

If people were smart enough they would realise a lot of these mobs can be low manned by as little as 3 players in some circumstances. If finding out and understanding a monsters weakness is so difficult then maybe they don't deserve the ki in the first place. Taxet as a mob is a complete joke how alliances wipe to this mob still is ridiculous.
 Bismarck.Chaosprime
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-24 16:56:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Carbuncle.Sambb said: »
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »
Also what kind of boils my nerves is the attitude of some people. They will only "help" you get a clear for a cost. Now for the Mega Boss Delve NM's i fully accept this. Totally. No doubt about it. But charging 5mil for a t4/5 clear? wtf lol I mean i know people are desperate and want to enjoy the game but hell lol, at that point id rather quit....

You see people are saying, why should we take a gimp player or 2 and make it harder for ourselves, yet that same group is selling the KI with 3-4 slots open. So the excuse of why should i make it harder for my self is kinda mute. Taking 1 player should not affect your progress, but alas, such is the way things are lol

If people were smart enough they would realise a lot of these mobs can be low manned by as little as 3 players in some circumstances. If finding out and understanding a monsters weakness is so difficult then maybe they don't deserve the ki in the first place. Taxet as a mob is a complete joke how alliances wipe to this mob still is ridiculous.

Please 3 man Mastop, Kurma, the Peiste, or Orobon please. Youtube the video and sir i shall never say nothing on this topic again. EVER
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-24 16:59:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
People who wipe to Tax'et, peiste, and orobon are the reasons that we can't have nice things
 Fenrir.Genesi
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Darcc
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Genesi 2013-06-24 16:59:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
In lieu of all the QQ'ing going on right now, I'll be organizing a Tax'et run on Fenrir when I get home. 3BRD 3WHM BLM/SCH RDM GEO 9DD.
Offline
Posts: 3206
By Enuyasha 2013-06-24 17:04:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
That would be ideal of the game weren't in the sorry state it's in from years of Abyssea/Voidwatch style content where anyone could theoretically come back from quitting and be able to compete on even ground with the stalwarts if you had half a brain. SE has tried to flip the switch back to a style of content we haven't seen since late TOAU in an era where the population has been gutted due to aging and a differing philosophy of game design.

The way XI works today isn't very different than how it worked back in '05 but what has changed is the available pool of players to choose from and thus your ability to progress up the ranks to Delve Bosses or whatever the top tier content is.

You've got the best players who use any available tool to optimize performance and these individuals rarely have time to baby or go on backtracking adventures to gear up people who aren't armed to the teeth with the greatest gear money/time can buy. You can't get Odin or NNI going? I did that crap ages ago and I dualboxed two characters while doing it.

Suck less.

And this is predictable behavior. Why? Because likeminded people will congregate together to complete goals just as they did back when buying expensive bots was a thing. What has changed is now you've got a void where the "not quite top tier but not scrub tier" linkshells used to be caused by the paradigm shift in content creation wedged between the timeless sea of bads.

I daresay that Abyssea destroyed the middle class.

So for the player that doesn't know the damage formula by heart yet isn't drooling HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE there is an identity crisis going on that I feel leads many people to lash out and complain. Where is your place? Is it among the elite who will call you out on not using tools to optimize performance? Is it among the scrubs who think PUP and BST can somehow through magic complete Delve bosses? Who think bucking the mainstream just for the hell of it is fun?

You could make your own LS but that would require most likely picking up a ton of bads and today's content doesn't support that style of gameplay (throwing legions of bodies to win content), hoping you can get picked up by the top-tier groups (either through buying a slot or coming on a non-essential job) or forever resigning oneself to never touching the top tier content period. See where the problems lie?

Most of the "old" content Matsui wants done is for 3-6man groups yet the Delve content wants 18 people in sync. It's not conducive to building unit cohesion and it results in the current dynamic of people just throwing themselves at the Delve plasm farms or getting plowed under by NMs like Tax'et or Chapuli until they logout.
This is exactly the phase i personally would not like to see the game go back to. The "good ole days" when the super 1337 people cleared the great gear content to become unique snowflakes and then laughed at "gimp" players who could not get into this group because of some arbitrary gear requirements so in order to get this gear you had to join a lesser LS, which couldnt get anything done (breaking left and right, fleeing with the guild bank). I will not return to the player hierarchy days where i have to bow and scrape off some high lords scraps and be thankful i got anything at all.

I agree that one should progress through the tiers of content before entering Delve, but what if i have progressed through the content? What if that content only has a plethora of sidegrades? Do you REALLY need to do VW,OdinII,meebles,and Skirmish to be "competent" enough for Delve?
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-24 17:19:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I can pretty much guarantee that the reason you'd be losing even if you have appropriate gear is because you're playing with people who don't know wtf they're doing. Everyone needs to be on the ball and doing their jobs properly, there needs to be coordination and precision.You're focusing too much on yourself and not realizing that the problem is probably the people around you.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 3206
By Enuyasha 2013-06-24 17:23:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I can pretty much guarantee that the reason you'd be losing even if you have appropriate gear is because you're playing with people who don't know wtf they're doing. Everyone needs to be on the ball and doing their jobs properly, there needs to be coordination and precision.You're focusing too much on yourself and not realizing that the problem is probably the people around you.
well, when the ruling class is full of "skilled" players, whats left for the rest of us? Bads and "okays".
 Carbuncle.Ceruleanknight
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Ideki
Posts: 154
By Carbuncle.Ceruleanknight 2013-06-24 17:24:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
OMG, another very smart thread..
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-24 17:24:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
That's why people said Legion training earlier. You not only need to play your job properly, but also learn team operations(which is not so obvious..I've seen tons of people failing at tasks like stun rotation, bard swapping, etc..)
With this VW didn't help. People only learned to go face to wall spamming ws with zerk on.
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-24 17:25:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enuyasha said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I can pretty much guarantee that the reason you'd be losing even if you have appropriate gear is because you're playing with people who don't know wtf they're doing. Everyone needs to be on the ball and doing their jobs properly, there needs to be coordination and precision.You're focusing too much on yourself and not realizing that the problem is probably the people around you.
well, when the ruling class is full of "skilled" players, whats left for the rest of us? Bads and "okays".

You need to nut the hell up, put together a group of people that you feel comfortable doing things with, and lead them to being capable of achieving what you mean to achieve. Sitting and bitching about it being too hard to get into a good group or having to eat up the scraps of others is solving nothing.

The "ruling class' is made up of people who've already gone through the trouble of doing this.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 3206
By Enuyasha 2013-06-24 17:27:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I can pretty much guarantee that the reason you'd be losing even if you have appropriate gear is because you're playing with people who don't know wtf they're doing. Everyone needs to be on the ball and doing their jobs properly, there needs to be coordination and precision.You're focusing too much on yourself and not realizing that the problem is probably the people around you.
well, when the ruling class is full of "skilled" players, whats left for the rest of us? Bads and "okays".

You need to nut the hell up, put together a group of people that you feel comfortable doing things with, and lead them to being capable of achieving what you mean to achieve. Sitting and bitching about it being too hard to get into a good group or having to eat up the scraps of others is solving nothing.

The "ruling class' is made up of people who've already gone through the trouble of doing this.
im not sitting around bitching, i have a group of 6-8 people, but you cant just do a delve boss run with your homies like you can salvage and meebles.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-24 17:27:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
When months ago I wanted to do Legion I didn't just sit here complaining it wasn't shout friendly. I gathered a group and we went to do it.

As stated earlier:
Asura.Solara said: »
it's unreasonable to think that people are obligated to do for you what you won't do for yourself
Take initiative.
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-24 17:27:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
then find more homies
 Fenrir.Genesi
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Darcc
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Genesi 2013-06-24 17:28:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enuyasha said: »
I agree that one should progress through the tiers of content before entering Delve, but what if i have progressed through the content? What if that content only has a plethora of sidegrades? Do you REALLY need to do VW,OdinII,meebles,and Skirmish to be "competent" enough for Delve?

The reason is not necessarily for gear purposes, although that does help. With competency and completion of other endgame (albeit sometimes, lowman) content, comes the ability to make adjustments and learn the roles of your jobs in the many different scenarios that the different content puts you in. Experience is the most important thing that you would gain from this. And quite frankly, having the experience to play your job is much more important than the gear that your job has.

Most importantly, it helps to wean the abyssea style players away from being spoonfed all the damn time. Open up a webpage on the ***your about to do FFS and stop getting information from someone else but rather gather it yourself.
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-24 17:33:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I can pretty much guarantee that the reason you'd be losing even if you have appropriate gear is because you're playing with people who don't know wtf they're doing. Everyone needs to be on the ball and doing their jobs properly, there needs to be coordination and precision.You're focusing too much on yourself and not realizing that the problem is probably the people around you.

This has a lot to do with it for Delve stuff. The gap between say, Skirmish weapons and 99 REM or even a +1'd AH weapon is not so large that someone couldn't clear Delve NMs with one of the weaker weapons.

However, the fights require such coordination and awareness that most PUGs can't rely on that to win. Instead, they go for people that already have Delve weapons, etc., because this lowers (somewhat) the need for coordination, which PUGs, by their very nature, are going to lack to some degree.

All of the group II Delve NMs require full participation from everyone: stuns at the right times, enfeebles up at all times, quick removal of status effects, DDs that are using their cooldowns properly and switching to -DT sets when they pull hate, bards that keep songs up and (if not rotating) helping with status removal, and so on.

If any one of the links in the chain is weak, it makes the others weaker. If a stunner misses a -ga nuke or dangerous TP move, it means the healers have to handle a lot of damage at once, and may not be able to remove status effects well. If a DD drops because he didn't get his PDT set on after grabbing hate, that's lost damage, which can be very problematic when the fights have 20 minute time limits.

Gear contributes to failure rate as well (obviously, someone showing up to a Delve clear in Aurore is a bad sign), but if you've taken the time to have proper swaps, gotten together a good TPing set--and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long--and so on, you're probably geared enough to contribute to a skilled group's NM attempt.

But, since you can't predict skill when forming a PUG, it's a lot easier to focus on gear to "screen" so to speak, as otherwise it's borderline impossible to do at all.
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-24 17:37:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
At the end of the day there's too many sheep and not enough sharks. ***doesn't happen by itself, and a lot of people need guidance to do things right because they don't have or haven't developed the capability of doing it by themselves.
 Fenrir.Genesi
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Darcc
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Genesi 2013-06-24 17:40:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
taken the time to have proper swaps, gotten together a good TPing set--and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

This, so much. People eating RCB with a sub 50% hit rate is not doing it right. It takes so much effort to tell people to gear for ACC and eat ACC food and when they fail to listen and the parse results are lopsided with 3 of your DD at 90%~ hit rate and 80% of your DMG while the other 6 DD make up the remaining 20% with lackluster hit rate. Something is totally wrong. Hell, give me someone who can atleast hit for 80%+ with a subpar weapon and I'll take that over a whif fest anyday.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 3206
By Enuyasha 2013-06-24 17:42:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Genesi said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
taken the time to have proper swaps, gotten together a good TPing set--and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

This, so much. People eating RCB with a sub 50% hit rate is not doing it right. It takes so much effort to tell people to gear for ACC and eat ACC food and when they fail to listen and the parse results are lopsided with 3 of your DD at 90%~ hit rate and 80% of your DMG while the other 6 DD make up the remaining 20% with lackluster hit rate. Something is totally wrong. Hell, give me someone who can atleast hit for 80%+ with a subpar weapon and I'll take that over a whif fest anyday.
well technically, you can get a hybrid ACC/capped haste/multi-attacks set on pretty much every job :< It only becomes difficult when you need hydrid DT sets which not all jobs have a lot to work with.
 Fenrir.Genesi
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Darcc
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Genesi 2013-06-24 17:45:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enuyasha said: »
Fenrir.Genesi said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
taken the time to have proper swaps, gotten together a good TPing set--and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

This, so much. People eating RCB with a sub 50% hit rate is not doing it right. It takes so much effort to tell people to gear for ACC and eat ACC food and when they fail to listen and the parse results are lopsided with 3 of your DD at 90%~ hit rate and 80% of your DMG while the other 6 DD make up the remaining 20% with lackluster hit rate. Something is totally wrong. Hell, give me someone who can atleast hit for 80%+ with a subpar weapon and I'll take that over a whif fest anyday.
well technically, you can get a hybrid ACC/capped haste/multi-attacks set on pretty much every job :< It only becomes difficult when you need hydrid DT sets which not all jobs have a lot to work with.

The point I was getting at is that there are players that don't have these sets and go with their old 'bread and butter' ATTK/Haste sets yet own the NQ delve weapons. They don't know any other set outside of that and they don't look up the necessary ACC upgrades they need. Then there are the players with adequate ACC/hybrid sets with subpar weapons that get overlooked. My frustration with the former pushes me closer to the latter.

All in all, you can't kill what you can't hit.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-24 17:45:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Genesi said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
taken the time to have proper swaps, gotten together a good TPing set--and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

This, so much. People eating RCB with a sub 50% hit rate is not doing it right. It takes so much effort to tell people to gear for ACC and eat ACC food and when they fail to listen and the parse results are lopsided with 3 of your DD at 90%~ hit rate and 80% of your DMG while the other 6 DD make up the remaining 20% with lackluster hit rate. Something is totally wrong. Hell, give me someone who can atleast hit for 80%+ with a subpar weapon and I'll take that over a whif fest anyday.

Yup. When I got Tax'et, hardly anyone in the group had 99 REM and no one had Delve that I remember. But everyone was competent, and a full BRD rotation after Exuvuations was enough for us to clear it with ~7 minutes remaining.

The gear check isn't as absolute as the typical shout would have you believe, but I don't know that I can blame them--all they're trying to do is minimize the rate of failure.
 Bahamut.Ozwaldo
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ozwaldo
Posts: 39
By Bahamut.Ozwaldo 2013-06-24 18:09:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Is the OP the same guy that wrote this drivel?

Thread from the official forums link

Your text to link here...
 Fenrir.Sylow
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-24 18:12:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
-and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

If you're on a job that can't cap or at least almost cap haste and accuracy at the same time, you should probably consider changing jobs.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-24 18:24:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
-and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

If you're on a job that can't cap or at least almost cap haste and accuracy at the same time, you should probably consider changing jobs.

I won't argue with that--but I've run into DDs that seem to focus on Haste myopically and don't seem aware of the pieces they need to be able to do that. In most pre-Adoulin content, you're already capped almost automatically, so it seems that a lot of folks learned to cap Haste and then worry about other stats (and Accuracy was never one of those stats).

My point in general was that you shouldn't be sacrificing Accuracy to get to the Haste cap unless you're over the Accuracy cap, and I've seen DD who didn't seem to know this. That's a rule that's never actually changed--we just had a lot of content that basically capped us on Accuracy automatically (or with the help of temps).
 Cerberus.Diabolique
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Uchitoru
Posts: 526
By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-06-24 18:26:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Ozwaldo said: »
Is the OP the same guy that wrote this drivel?

Thread from the official forums link

Your text to link here...
Not seeing any connection between the nonsense linked, and what the OP suggested.
Like, nowhere near the same thing and pretty obviously not the same guy.
OP: A boost for all if you have someone without KI
OF Nonsense: No one gets ***if you don't have new people.
[+]
 Fenrir.Genesi
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Darcc
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Genesi 2013-06-24 18:28:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
-and that means you've got capped ACC, not necessarily the haste-focused milieu that dominated for so long

If you're on a job that can't cap or at least almost cap haste and accuracy at the same time, you should probably consider changing jobs.

I won't argue with that--but I've run into DDs that seem to focus on Haste myopically and don't seem aware of the pieces they need to be able to do that. In most pre-Adoulin content, you're already capped almost automatically, so it seems that a lot of folks learned to cap Haste and then worry about other stats (and Accuracy was never one of those stats).

My point in general was that you shouldn't be sacrificing Accuracy to get to the Haste cap unless you're over the Accuracy cap, and I've seen DD who didn't seem to know this. That's a rule that's never actually changed--we just had a lot of content that basically capped us on Accuracy automatically (or with the help of temps).

Both of these quotes explains what should be going on and what is actually going on. I think the top tier players know this. The majority, do not.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Rairin
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-06-24 18:32:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Enuyasha said: »
im not sitting around bitching, i have a group of 6-8 people, but you cant just do a delve boss run with your homies like you can salvage and meebles.
have 8boxed all KIs besides t6, and almost all individual nms

you can lowman to get the gear you need for megaboss, then get more people at the same gear level to do mega
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 13 14 15
Log in to post.