GMOs: "Allergic To Science: Proteins And Allergens

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GMOs: "Allergic to Science: proteins and allergens
 Fenrir.Mesic
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By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-06-20 18:56:26
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
A few weeks ago, the Union of Concerned Scientists released a policy paper entitled “The Healthy Farm: A Vision for U.S. Agriculture,” which is exactly what it sounds like.

The UCS is nothing but a liberal political group that formed to protest the Vietnam war. The "CS" part of their name comes from the fact that the original 48 members worked at MIT as researchers. That group deliberately distorts actual research to push liberal and "green" policy's. You might as well start quoting research from foxnews.

Was referring to the original paper from the UCS not the article.

So when you said "stopped reading right there" you were referring to an article within that article, even though you stopped reading before it was even mentioned that its just for the definition and actually a separate article? Confused
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-21 08:55:31
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Fenrir.Mesic said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
A few weeks ago, the Union of Concerned Scientists released a policy paper entitled “The Healthy Farm: A Vision for U.S. Agriculture,” which is exactly what it sounds like.

The UCS is nothing but a liberal political group that formed to protest the Vietnam war. The "CS" part of their name comes from the fact that the original 48 members worked at MIT as researchers. That group deliberately distorts actual research to push liberal and "green" policy's. You might as well start quoting research from foxnews.

Was referring to the original paper from the UCS not the article.

So when you said "stopped reading right there" you were referring to an article within that article, even though you stopped reading before it was even mentioned that its just for the definition and actually a separate article? Confused

I had read through the article by SA already. The paper by UCS was trash like usual.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-21 09:11:01
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Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
If the other thread is any indication, he needs to brush up on history, ancient to recent, also. :/ EAK!!! Talk about having your head in the sand!

Sadly there are 1000 people who have no clue wtf they are on about for every 1 person that has a grasp of important issues such as GMO's, Megacorporations, the absolute rape of the world's oceans, or the world's climate. Honestly I strangely have more respect for his type since he at least puts forth some effort to listen to his "news sources" versus people who can't even be bothered to form an opinion. Granted he is laughably incorrect with his regurgitated talking points from FOX news, but he is making an effort for what it's worth.

The really scary ones imo are people who are so absorbed with their tiny insignificant lives that all they can focus on aside from what ever they do for a living is posting pictures of what they are having for lunch on Facebook. Or what moronic idea just popped into their peebrain that they can't wait to share with everyone on Twitter. When your existence is dominated by those sorts of concerns, and the rest of it is caught up in hero worshiping celebrities/reality television who can find time for boring scientific discussions?

Really I try not to dwell on it it's just depressing. I just go about my daily routine, and do things that make me happy. I try to stay informed as much as possible, and make smart choices. It's really all you can do vs the tidal wave of idiocy.

Unfortunately you and most of the others fall into the first category though you like to think your in the second.

My "news" sources are the same as yours and everyone else's. That's the wonderful thing about being an moderate independent, I don't owe any allegiance nor faith to any of the trash political movements in the world. This gives me free reign to ingest and process information. No politicized or artificial filter in place to skew or slant my views.

The aforementioned population issue is a prime example. The original poster was actually arguing for eugenics targeting poor people in developed nations. This wouldn't do a damned thing for the world population. The logic broke down to "there are too many people in the world so lets sterilize the poor people in the slowest growing populations". The only answer to the battle cry of "world is overpopulated!!!!110101" is genocide, which is a rather unpleasant thought. Especially seeing as there is plenty of room in the world, especially in places like the USA and Australia. There are plenty of resources and technology is advancing such that we have even more resources then ever before.

Anyhow that gets into a different topic entirely. Suffice to say that you are the cause of the worlds ills, not the solution.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 11:35:03
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I have to chime in here because some people are generalizing economic principles.

1. Supply and distribution are not intrinsically linked in economics. In a market with perfect competition (e.g. never in reality) supply = demand but the underlying assumptions are far-fetched, to put it nicely. This theory was originally created for microeconomics (even there it fails) and it does not transfer well to macroeconomics (e.g. feeding the world's population).

Theory in economics =/= theory in physics (e.g. gravity)

2. The prices of food (bananas, coffee, wheat, corn, etc) is decided via commodity markets throughout the world. Which is why farmers in the US are pissed at Monsanto about "zombie" wheat because it dropped the demand (and subsequently price) of wheat in the US.

3. Distribution of food is a problem in the non-developed world. To deny this ignores the fact that farmers in the US and EU are paid by their respective governments to leave fields fallow. Or how milk is dumped rather than sold. There is an over-abundance of food grown in Western countries but the distribution systems (and political issues) are inadequate.

4. Political treaties for free trade between nations does not include the agriculture industry, traditionally. New Zealand lifted the ban a few years ago and the EU has free trade between its members. However, political barriers (otherwise known as protectionism) makes it rather difficult to get the food to those nations that need it.

5. Do you really want the worlds food supply to be dependent upon big business? Did you like what the banks and other financial institutions did leading up to the financial crisis throughout the world? Do you somehow think that big agriculture business is different?

Monsanto GMO seeds will have to be bought every year for farmers to grow these crops. The doctrine of first sale (so far) does not apply to GMO crops. So farmers cannot let the last crop go to seed in order to grow more the next year.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-21 12:07:09
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Was worth posting this thread just for Kara's post. <3
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 13:30:51
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A little off topic, but I've always wondered why produce and meat prices are cheaper in Europe. I chalk it up to the cost of transporting food, but you would think with the population density of Europe, that prices would still be relatively the same. It's better quality too.

Aren't prices on some produce in Japan insanely expensive?
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 13:37:07
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From what I've noticed steak and chicken are more expensive in Denmark (I can't speak for the whole EU). But pork is cheaper than in the US (because DK has a lot of pigs).

Produce is cheaper here than in the US, as long as you are not talking about exotic fruit or fruit/veggies outside of the growing season. Citrus comes from southern Europe (during growing season), strawberries from DK and other places in the EU, apples from like everywhere, tomatoes from DK and other parts of EU.

The produce is cheaper or as expensive because there is free trade throughout the EU and there are really good distribution channels.

However, eggs are rather expensive here as well as milk. 1 liter of milk is 7 DKK roughly. So, 3 1/2 liters = gallon would be about 25 DKK around $4, roughly. Not sure what milk is in the US right now.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-21 13:38:56
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$4 for 1 gallon (3.8 liters) in California, give or take.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 13:40:06
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Ok, so roughly the same.

I haven't bought eggs in awhile, but last time it was 18 for 30DKK, so a little over $5.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-06-21 13:46:01
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Sorry, made me think of this:
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 13:50:36
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
From what I've noticed steak and chicken are more expensive in Denmark (I can't speak for the whole EU). But pork is cheaper than in the US (because DK has a lot of pigs).

Produce is cheaper here than in the US, as long as you are not talking about exotic fruit or fruit/veggies outside of the growing season. Citrus comes from southern Europe (during growing season), strawberries from DK and other places in the EU, apples from like everywhere, tomatoes from DK and other parts of EU.

The produce is cheaper or as expensive because there is free trade throughout the EU and there are really good distribution channels.

However, eggs are rather expensive here as well as milk. 1 liter of milk is 7 DKK roughly. So, 3 1/2 liters = gallon would be about 25 DKK around $4, roughly. Not sure what milk is in the US right now.

Pork is pretty much a staple in Germany also. Chicken was a little shy of a dollar less than what we pay in the US per pound. I wasn't paying attention to beef.

I remember pineapple being cheaper than in the US even though it's not at all indigenous (I'm guessing imported from Italy?). I was a surprised by that.

I wish every city in the US would adopt the European system of recycling plastic and glass containers. I wish the US also had more private, family-owned neighborhood bakeries and delis where the food is reasonably comparable to the prices at your run-of-the-mill supermarket.

Also, you still live in Denmark?

/jealous

So jealous of you right now! LOL!
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 13:51:43
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
$4 for 1 gallon (3.8 liters) in California, give or take.

$3.70 to $3.90 in Texas.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 14:01:57
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Yeah, my husband and I moved to DK 5 years ago :)

Chicken is much more expensive here. The last time I bought a whole chicken (1500 grams) it was 50DKK, roughly $9. I remember it being cheaper in the US.

Yeah, pineapple is expensive. Mil bought me a watermelon the other day and I think that was more expensive than in the US. Also, I prefer TX watermelons. The ones here are so small! :)
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-06-21 14:10:30
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The fat percentages are a bit different here(Denmark) as well.
Here's just some data, via SuperBest grocery(not necessarily cheapest):
Milk
Minimælk 0,5% 4.95DKK 1 liter
Letmælk 1,5% 5.50DKK 1 liter
Sødmælk 3,5% 8.50DKK 1 liter
Egg
Danske Æg str. M/L 22.95 DKK for 15
Butter
Bakkedal Smør 250 g 13.95DKK
Bakkedal Økologisk Smør 250 g 15.95 DKK

The difference between normal/organic (Økologisk) foodstuffs is usually about +20%.
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-06-21 14:11:39
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Yeah, my husband and I moved to DK 5 years ago :)

Chicken is much more expensive here. The last time I bought a whole chicken (1500 grams) it was 50DKK, roughly $9. I remember it being cheaper in the US.

Yeah, pineapple is expensive. Mil bought me a watermelon the other day and I think that was more expensive than in the US. Also, I prefer TX watermelons. The ones here are so small! :)

It was 30DKK, and about the size of a large cantaloupe(maybe slightly bigger).
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 14:18:39
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Yeah, my husband and I moved to DK 5 years ago :)

That is awesome! A couple of years ago, when I was in a personal panic mode, I was looking into CPOL jobs in Europe, but never pulled the trigger. (It worked out for the best though.) It's great that you two are living there!

I haven't been to Europe since 2007, but we're going over Christmas/New Year this year. Long long long overdue!
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 14:21:59
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It worked out well for us :)

Have fun on your trip!

Just for curiosity sakes, are you coming to Northern Europe in the winter and why? :) Winter < Summer

We have sun for 21 hours a day right now! Winter, so very dark. Cozy, but dark.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-06-21 14:23:49
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Birds, so loud. So very, very loud.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 14:28:42
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
It worked out well for us :)

Have fun on your trip!

Just for curiosity sakes, are you coming to Northern Europe in the winter and why? :) Winter < Summer

We have sun for 21 hours a day right now! Winter, so very dark. Cozy, but dark.

Family. My mother is German. I know it's not ideal for the weather, but the Christmas Markets and the festival in the Odenwald are nice.

Only two-and-a-half weeks is a squeeze too, but hopefully I won't be too strapped for time to meet up with Headstrong. My family is around Wiesbaden/Frankfurt, and if I remember correctly, she's a little south of Köln.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 14:35:14
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That makes sense. Yeah, the German Christmas markets are supposed to be so nice :)

Do they make most of the x-mas ornaments in Germany too? I was surprised by how many make them here. But Christmas in Denmark is marked by a lot of traditions. From singing around the tree, to playing specific games and eating specific foods.



Put candy in this one and hang it on the tree


Sorry for derailing the thread!
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 14:54:36
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
That makes sense. Yeah, the German Christmas markets are supposed to be so nice :)

Do they make most of the x-mas ornaments in Germany too? I was surprised by how many make them here. But Christmas in Denmark is marked by a lot of traditions. From signing around the tree, to playing specific games and eating specific foods.



Put candy in this one and hang it on the tree


Sorry for derailing the thread!

There's definitely hand-made porcelain and wooden ornaments at the booths in the Christmas Markets. My mother and I used to make lebkuchen ornaments for every Christmas we spent in Germany...



I never really knew what an overambitious task it was to do in the US until I tried it the Christmas after I bought my house. Even European specialty markets are lacking in Austin. There's a relatively decent one in a suburb north of me, Pflugerville. I still couldn't find all the ingredients, so I had to handmake the different citrus syrups. (Never again! Or at least until my son can enjoy it.)

I seriously think commercialized Christmas is exclusive to the US. LOL! Even when I was little American Christmas was never Christmas to me. There's always a lot more sentiment that is linked in with Northern European Christmases. Does Denmark celebrate Saint Nikolaus Day on December 6th too? I know Drac and I talked about Saint Lucia Day in Sweden.

Second apology for derailing!)
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 15:10:49
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Yep, but it is celebrated on December 13th here (Sankta Lucia).

They also celebrate Mortensaften (Mortens Day) where everyone eats duck on November 10th. Not sure if that is anywhere else besides Denmark.

We are celebrating Sankt Hans Dag (Saint John the Baptist day) this Sunday, for the summer solstice. There are bonfires up and down the coastlines of Jutland, on Funen, and Zealand (probably on the smaller islands too).

There is a lot of tradition in Northern European Christmas. It is a lot of fun :)
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-21 16:22:31
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Yep, but it is celebrated on December 13th here (Sankta Lucia).

They also celebrate Mortensaften (Mortens Day) where everyone eats duck on November 10th. Not sure if that is anywhere else besides Denmark.

We are celebrating Sankt Hans Dag (Saint John the Baptist day) this Sunday, for the summer solstice. There are bonfires up and down the coastlines of Jutland, on Funen, and Zealand (probably on the smaller islands too).

There is a lot of tradition in Northern European Christmas. It is a lot of fun :)

It makes a lot more sense that Denmark would celebrate Saint Lucia Day over Saint Nikolaus. That is fantastic! I love the summer festivals! I love their national holidays and it seems like every town or their suburbs have some anniversary of establishment during the summer complete with fireworks over the rivers.

Pretzel vendors. Cheese pretzels. My weakness.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-21 16:51:27
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Yes, I agree summer festivals are awesome :)

mmm, festival food. Here they love hot dogs/sausages (really all things to do with pigs) and strawberries in the summer (not together!). Danish strawberries I have to say are fantastic :)

If you ever get to Denmark in July I recommend the Viking Moot in Aarhus.

It's interesting how so many festivals, parties, etc are thrown in the summer in Northern Europe (Southern too). Trying to pack in as many outdoor events as possible while there is daylight :)
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