You Spoony Guide! - A Troubadour's Libretto

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You Spoony Guide! - A Troubadour's Libretto
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2017-12-31 14:17:49
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Asura.Verbannt said: »
My suggestion is to do it in ule, reason being if you build amber lights you can stock up on sisyphus fragment(400k a pop) and usually 3 different people farming at same time, being on asura i can tell you, there will likely be more competition on sis than there will be for colorless souls, a second account or person, that can come in and send fragments to their delivery box then check the box to send more would be nice, took about 50 pops to get my horns.
Did have nin and run so always had red proc and had th7 from my thf
Either way gl

Do you have any specfic trust you use to cap lights for TE? My trust WS happy *** ruby quickly.
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-12-31 18:07:24
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Arciela Shantotto 2 Unity leader whm, Ulmia what I used never saw 1 Ruby, but takes a while with trust
 Bismarck.Cloudstrafie
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By Bismarck.Cloudstrafie 2018-01-10 22:59:06
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What is the current cap for bard songs?,Barring Clarion call thought songs lasted long back in the day with mythic,Coulda sworn i seen a vid someone had 16 min songs
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By Quizzy 2018-01-10 23:38:51
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Certain songs can be extra long. As a rule I only end up with like 11 minute songs.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-01-11 03:00:42
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Some songs receive excess duration instead of potency from stuff like Soul Voice and Marcato.
It's the case for Mazurka or Scherzo, for instance.

Good luck overwriting a SV Scherzo with another song, have fun! xD
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2018-01-11 04:13:58
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Hymnus, Mazurka & Scherzo are the 3 songs that get increased duration with SV or Marcuto so you can see 20+ minute songs if SV'd on them
 Sylph.Funkworkz
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2018-01-11 08:40:03
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All song potency is listed here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/BGWiki:SongPotency

If you scroll down to Mage's Ballad 1, you can see my plan was to eventually list the marcato/sv values if you hover over each tier. Have not gotten to that yet, so if anyone feels bored go ahead.

If you click an individual type of song, for instance Threnody, that page tells you what marcato/SV does for each song: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Threnody
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By cuddlyhamster 2018-01-12 14:41:01
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Question on recast for songs.
What is the cap on recast?
How does 'Song Recast -' gear work with gear haste/fast cast gear?
 Asura.Inuyushi
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By Asura.Inuyushi 2018-01-12 14:53:40
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cuddlyhamster said: »
Question on recast for songs.
What is the cap on recast?
How does 'Song Recast -' gear work with gear haste/fast cast gear?

Cap on fast cast and recast is 80%. Do note that 80% FC will only give you 40% recast due to Recast from FC being half of the FC value. You want to cap your gear Haste/Magic Haste to get capped recast.

The 'Song Recast -' gear works best because it's a straight deduction off the recast. So 'Song Recast -10' would be 10 seconds off of the recast. I don't know if that is calculated before or after the recast from FC and Gear Haste/Magical Haste.
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By cuddlyhamster 2018-01-12 15:37:29
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ok ty.
Recast gear goes into midcast sets right?
Just have to work on mixing in some song recast in with magic acc.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-01-30 19:04:24
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Do we know if all the % values from song duration bonus stuff is exact?
I have a custom formula to calculate duration of lullaby which used to be flawless when I developed it originally.
Now I noticed there's like a ~3-4 seconds discrepancy*** between the values I get on screen and the moment monsters wake up in the log.

Since this has never been the case when I thoroughfully and carefully developed the duration formula either I *** up and changed something in my function some time ago and then forgot about it, or some of the new values (Brioso+3 feet for instance?) aren't exactly as shown.
If it were 14% instead of the displayed 15% for instance, it would probably make sense.
Nobody else having this issue?

The formula I'm using to calculate duration atm is:
full_duration = ((((duration.base * (duration.gear + duration.instrument))+duration.lullabyJP + duration.clarion) * duration.troubadour) + duration.marcato)

duration.base is the base duration of the song (30 seconds for tier1 lullabies, 60 seconds for tier 2)
duration.gear and duration.instrument is the sum of the duration bonus between these two. The 5% gift is added in this formula as well (I consider it gear duration)
I then add the static durations of JPs and clarioncall and then proceed to multiply for 1 if Troub is down, or 2 if it's up.
Last but not least I add the static value of Marcato bonus, which doesn't get multiplied by Troubadour.

I swear this formula has always worked flawlessly for me. The fact there is this discrepancy now means I probably *** up with something else, like the static values when I upgraded my gear with the new Omen stuff.

What's the max duration you guys can get, without special cooldowns?
I'm getting 202.4 seconds with Marsyas (no SV, no CC, no Troub, no Marcato) for tier 2 songs.


***
Going by Battlemod timestamps this discrepancy seems to be ~3-4 with tier 2 lullabies, and ~2 with tier 1 lullabies.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-01-30 19:39:46
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My timer is still accurate and your logic looks okay.

Did you adjust Inyanga Shalwar +2 to 17%?
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-01-31 01:30:00
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Oooooh yes, finally found the problem.
It was the 5% (0.05) value from Gifts.

I *** up and forgot to add it when I re-calculated the sum of values while adding up the Brioso+3 feet, pretty sure this is what happened.

Wtf, considering how long ago I updated my feet this value in my lua has been off for like, what, close to 1 year? Hahaha
I need to stop doing these things at 2:00 AM before going to bed >___>



On a side note, was it ever tested if Tenuto song duration bonus from Job Points works for debuffs?
I seem to recall I tested it myself and that it was giving duration+ only on the song effect I (the caster) received, but not on the song received by other party members.
Likewise it wasn't working on debuffs for the same reason.
I'm not so sure any longer though. Does anybody remember 100% if it works or not?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-01-31 12:10:01
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Can anybody confirm these numbers are consistent with your calculations, given the "currently best" gear?
(Carn, Kali offhand, HQ neck, AF3+1 body, AF1+3 hands, Inyanga+2 legs, AF1+3 feet, Marsyas)

Troub+Marcato t2 = 424.8 seconds
Troub tier 2 = 404.8 seconds
tier2 = 202.4 seconds
tier1 = 111.2

Numbers without Kali offhand:
Troub+Marcato t2 = 418.8 seconds
Troub tier 2 = 398.8 seconds
tier2 = 199.4 seconds
tier1 = 109.7 seconds


Thanks!
 Ragnarok.Fcube
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By Ragnarok.Fcube 2018-02-25 10:03:57
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For lullaby, is Daurdabla or Blurred Harp +1 better in terms of song duration?
 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2018-02-25 10:14:52
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By olson2189 2018-03-09 20:52:20
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What are people's thoughts on HQ vs NQ Stikini rings? Is it worth getting 2 HQ's? Is it accurate to say that HQ is roughly 24 M.Acc over NQ (using the simplified assumption of all skills = 1:1 ratio to M.Acc)?
 Asura.Darian
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By Asura.Darian 2018-03-09 21:35:53
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Asura.Topace said: »
Asura.Verbannt said: »
My suggestion is to do it in ule, reason being if you build amber lights you can stock up on sisyphus fragment(400k a pop) and usually 3 different people farming at same time, being on asura i can tell you, there will likely be more competition on sis than there will be for colorless souls, a second account or person, that can come in and send fragments to their delivery box then check the box to send more would be nice, took about 50 pops to get my horns.
Did have nin and run so always had red proc and had th7 from my thf
Either way gl

Do you have any specfic trust you use to cap lights for TE? My trust WS happy *** ruby quickly.

Go as THF with good aeolian set. Cap amber in no time.
 Asura.Yojimmbo
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By Asura.Yojimmbo 2018-03-12 04:47:11
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Bahamut.Cantontai said: »
•Magic Accuracy effects magic hit rate for songs.

•Charisma will either be equal to or less than Magic Accuracy depending on the target, but should generally be regarded as the latter: "2 CHR = 1 Magic Accuracy." 1 CHR is equivalent to Magic Accuracy until dCHR is greater than 10~15 (dCHR is the difference of your CHR and the target's CHR). In other words, once your CHR is at least 10~15 higher than the target's CHR, then 2 CHR is equivalent to Magic Accuracy. So, it is best to just make your set assuming the ratio is 2:1, as generally our CHR is this high for most targets anyways when you factor in gear assuming 2:1 already. There may be some very, very high level targets (high level Incursion/Vagary, maybe some VD merit fights) for CHR to be a M.Acc equivalent, even after considering your equipment. But even then, if you compare two optimal sets, one assuming 2:1 and one assuming 1:1, there is very few contrast anyways. So it's not a big hassle to have two sets ready for both instances of CHR's behavioral differences.

•Singing Skill is roughly equivalent to Magic Accuracy.

•Wind/Stringed Instrument Skill seems to be a bit more complicated. First assumed to be 1:1 like their counterpart, Singing Skill, it's recently been questioned to actually have lower Magic Accuracy values than Singing. It seems hard to believe that we would have so much more innate Magic Accuracy than any other job, so some have proposed instrument skills are a 3:1 ratio to Magic Accuracy, or it could even be a larger amount of Skill needed to match 1 Magic Acc. However, it's possible there's a further modifier or quantification to explain this, or that both Instrument and Singing Skills are valued lower than originally thought. The first explanation of Instrument skills just being a lower rate seems most likely though.
Anyone know of or ever read or come across a decent formula to calculate the potency of songs based on skill level? Or any known charts?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-12 05:11:39
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There are no charts but the information there seems to be up to date.
I would be more leaning to considering CHR 1:1 with Macc because I *assume* high level target (T4 stuff in Reisenjima, VD bosses in Ambuscade, supermegabosses in Dynamis etc) have much much higher CHR than we do, and they sometimes have level up mechanics where they gain even more stats.
Lower level enemies have likely lower CHR but for those targets you don't tipically have issues landing stuff, and if you do it's because they're immune to specific songs.

That's just my assumption on a hunch btw, no solid data to support it.
I might be very wrong, not sure if anybody ever bothered to measure CHR rough numbers of those high level NMs.
 Asura.Yojimmbo
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By Asura.Yojimmbo 2018-03-12 05:57:20
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Asura.Sechs said: »
There are no charts but the information there seems to be up to date.
I would be more leaning to considering CHR 1:1 with Macc because I *assume* high level target (T4 stuff in Reisenjima, VD bosses in Ambuscade, supermegabosses in Dynamis etc) have much much higher CHR than we do, and they sometimes have level up mechanics where they gain even more stats.
Lower level enemies have likely lower CHR but for those targets you don't tipically have issues landing stuff, and if you do it's because they're immune to specific songs.

That's just my assumption on a hunch btw, no solid data to support it.
I might be very wrong, not sure if anybody ever bothered to measure CHR rough numbers of those high level NMs.
I stacked Wind and Singing skill in an attempt to get faster Marches since according to BGWiki, the combined skill determines potency and accuracy. Unfortunatley, there is no info on potency on buffs like March. Out of curiousity, have you ever come across a mob that needs a well geared Bard to sleep it? I might have to rethink my gears sets now. -_-

Edit: BGWiki does have a basic formula for magic accuracy, so I'm good with debuffs, but no talk about marches. I'm sure that there has to be a flip side to that coin and that skill effects Marches somehow.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-12 06:08:24
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Not sure I get your question.
There is data about potency for all BRD songs. They all cap at max 900 combined skill, majority of songs cap potency way below that.
Adding further skill does absolutely nothing for buff songs, other than potentially raising the range, supposing it's not capped already (only a bunch of songs don't cap range naturally).
This only matters if you're using string instruments and the range cap is 19.9 yalms.

For debuff songs it's the same, skill arguably affects the potency but they all cap before 900 skill.
Once the potency is capped adding more skill only adds more magic accuracy. For that purpose I wouldn't bother much with wind/string skill gear (unless it's icing on the cake) because they convert at a pretty bad rate. It's 3:1 if not even worse.

Sing skill instead, as previously said, is close to 1:1 conversion rate instead.



https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:March
Going specifically for marches now.
Advancing march caps potency at an unknown value but it's very low.
Victory March caps potency at around ~600 combined skill and Honor March caps potency at 900 combined skill.
 Asura.Yojimmbo
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By Asura.Yojimmbo 2018-03-12 06:15:12
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Cool, so I'm good at 900+ skill. Sorry I didn't word it right the first time. My songs are usually at 950 skill so I'm relieved lol Out of curiousity, are there any mobs that just brush off bard debuffs in the end game areas?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-12 06:17:02
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"brush off" as in? Resist? Or remove?
 Asura.Yojimmbo
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By Asura.Yojimmbo 2018-03-12 06:18:13
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Yeah, sorry lol Resist
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By olson2189 2018-03-12 12:03:15
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Asura.Sechs said: »
For that purpose I wouldn't bother much with wind/string skill gear (unless it's icing on the cake) because they convert at a pretty bad rate. It's 3:1 if not even worse.

Sing skill instead, as previously said, is close to 1:1 conversion rate instead.

Thanks Sechs. Does 3:1 apply to lullaby as well? I'm debating whether or not HQ stikini rings are worth it, and I've been viewing HQ as +18 M.Acc over NQ (both rings combined), but that's based on a 1:1 ratio assumption for all skills.
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-12 13:02:45
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Not sure what you mean with your "to lullaby as well?" it applies to everything.
String and Wind skill have a much worse conversion rate to macc compared to other skills.
It's 3:1 if not worse, it applies to everything.

Sing skill instead is somewhere close to 1:1
CHR as said before it's more complicated.
Personally (maybe I've been wrong?) I've always assumed it to be roughly 1:1 at least on the highest level targets. On the other ones it's probably more like 2:1 but then again on those targets, like I said before, it hardly matters either way.
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-12 13:05:12
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Asura.Yojimmbo said: »
Yeah, sorry lol Resist
Resist? Sure, even with the bis gear you can still get resists on some targets if you have no food, no languor, no focus, no frazzle3 and/or the target is particularly resistant against that specific element.
Like landing Elegy on an earth-resistant high level target is not always easy.

This only applies to high level targets. On the low level ones tipically you can land everything everytime with a few exceptions here and there.
I'm not taking into account immunities of course, those are a different thing entirely and you get a different message from a resist anyway.
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By olson2189 2018-03-12 14:10:14
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Not sure what you mean with your "to lullaby as well?" it applies to everything.
String and Wind skill have a much worse conversion rate to macc compared to other skills.
It's 3:1 if not worse, it applies to everything.

Sing skill instead is somewhere close to 1:1
CHR as said before it's more complicated.
Personally (maybe I've been wrong?) I've always assumed it to be roughly 1:1 at least on the highest level targets. On the other ones it's probably more like 2:1 but then again on those targets, like I said before, it hardly matters either way.

Thanks for cleaning me up. That means x2 Stikini is only about 14 higher on M.Acc than 2 NQ rings: (3 from raw M.Acc + 1 from String + 3 from Singing) x 2 = 14

Unless 'Magic Accuracy Skill' like we see on weapons is included in the 'All Magic Skills+' stat. Does anyone know that?
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-03-13 02:28:05
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Afaik it's not included, but prove me wrong hey!
Don't think anybody ever bothered to test but I always assumed "Magic Accuracy Skill" was kinda something else despite the name, and not a real "skill" like everything else.
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