Skill Up With Skill+ Items?

Lets say you are 5 levels away from your current recipe cap and currently own your craft's 2 +1 skill items...Would you wear both while you're skilling up and keep them on even when you only have 1 more level to cap out? Would you take one off each time you gain a level? Would you only wear one of the items when you're 5 levels down hoping for more skill ups? Do those skill+ items even affect skill up rate? Thoughts?

I'd keep them on. -3 below the cap is when if you break the synth you still can get a skill up.

actually its -6

ahh I dont know >.>
you say 6. this guy says 5.

Personally, I'd rather get less skillups and not blow ***up then get more skillups and have ***explode on me. I hate losing money more then pretty much anything, but that's just me...

If you're powercrafting and don't care much about the gil, or the end result is a loss synth anyways, I wouldn't worry about the gear and shoot for the skillups. If you're trying to minimize your gil expenditures, I most definitely would wear the gear.

It's really up to you TBH

No I meant Ive gotten skillups on breaks 6 lvls under.

That depends. Some recipes its actually cheaper to break then succede. Skillup rate is highly dependent on closeness to skill lvl at difficulty and such. I use this for best skillup results trying to stay between 2-3http://ffxi.lokyst.net/timer/crafttimer.html

you must of been wearing something or had synth imagery.

Well, yeah...I'm a cook so there's like none of those for me lol...(at least not yet...although the high 90's is gonna make me wanna stab people)

My point is, when it comes to gil, I do whatever I can to save it. That's my only advice, unless you're Mr. Moneybags...in which case, *** it LOL

Well yeah who the hell synths that far away without it thats just asking for break after break. That being said according to wiki it says 5

As a 99+2 Alchemist, I don't think wearing them affects skill up rates. While I haven't -actually- tested this, after getting one (and then both) of the +skill items I have, skill ups seemed to be going at the same rate. as when I didn't have them.

thats why you got a skill up on break.
probably had adv and something.

I've had skill ups on breaks w/o support being 5 lvls from recipe cap, I'm uncertain if you get them at 6 though.

i'm 100% confident it's only 5. you must of had wrong cap info to go off 6. ive scaled the 100 mountain more then once and never have i got a skill on a break -6 or more

As for skill up rates i seem to pull best rates @ -5 to -1 from cap. i try to skill light based on darks and darks based on light and i have found it to be fairly good.

The skillup on breaks is counted on natural skill (ie. excluding guild point items and advanced support). Its only on craft levels above 50 where you can't get a skillup on a break when your natural skill is more than 5 below the item cap. Below that it is possible to skillup on breaks where the gap is larger, but I don't know the exact maximum gap, and I think the chances are fairly low anyway, so its difficult to prove/test.

Personally I found that using the Guild point items whilst skilling worked well for me. Even when I was 1 level to cap, I would use the GP items and do it on (depending on your beliefs) the conditions that made the synth the most difficult, and I found my results were as good if not better than before for skillup rates.

At the end of the day, thats not a massive sample, and I think different people do different methods. It also depends as mentioned above how expensive the items in the recipe are, how rare they are (can you get more synth materials easily?), how much a loss costs, etc.

I thought that gear and guild support had a bigger effect? Like, if you're 8 levels below cap, and you get advanced support and wear both items, that will put you to 4 (or 3, what's advanced support?) below cap, and allow you to get a skill-up on breaks. I've been to busy to continue my crafting for a while now so I'm really not sure atm, will have to get back into it again eventually.

Theres still some debate weather support and items affect the lvl you can get break skillups or weather its just your skill without. I have never tested past 6 lvls but I have gotten plenty of break skill ups at all lvls at even 6 lvls lower... that being said I was always using advanced support and often items to minimize breakage. And yes this includes things past lvl 50 which I've done alot.

Is there really a lot of debate about this? Considering we're talking about a yes or no (as opposed to HQ rates which are the usual topic when it comes to crafting), after thousands of crafters doing literally billions of synths I can't imagine for a second this is an unknown. I'm pretty sure it's on multiple guides around the place.

While you're looking it up, can you tell me, if you're 2 levels below the cap, and you wear two guild items (effectively putting you on the cap) is it possible to get skill-ups at all?

Well if you want to look at it that way wiki says both I think. Personally I have never tried past 6 under without items and/or synth support. I have at all lvls gotten skillups on breaks @6 (I never craft farther below). While I might not have multiple 100s I do have a 94 and like 4 60s. Part of the reason for the debate probably stems from the fact that yes you can get skillups even if your combine skill is higher then the cap making it seem like skillups are based solely on natural lvl. That being said I've skillup rate for me has always seemed to be based on total lvl not natural and at just 1 away your odds aren't the greatest to begin with so generally speaking I rarely ever even tried that. Only exception was when I was skilling up on elemental ore back in the day because 1. it was an amazing profit when you succeded 2. When you failed it was a huge loss.

well if you say your doing a level 60 synth and you are a 54 in that craft
you get advanced support +3 and you have +1 so you are now a 54+3+1(58) you can get skill ups until your original skill level reaches the synth. from what i can tell the +3+1 just help you so you dont bust all day and you will probly get skill ups. but you can be 56+3+1 and still get skill ups just fine

Off Toppic who ever said you cant get a .2 after lvl 50 is full of it i got 2 pictures past 50 showing me getting .2's .. and 2.2's in a row

Eh, from my pov, I dont think you can get skillups on a break higher than you 6 levels, I think it's 5, not counting image support, and I usually use advanced so, I dont consider it has anything to do with break skillups. With cooking I did a big level gap on au laits, and from that I can say no to skillups 6+ from your natural cap. At least, this is my personal experience.

i did ram hides 10 lvl away ... yes many busts

Lol @ can't get +.2 after lvl 50 that's just silly. Rarer sure but it happens.

This seems to be true, but I haven't done extensive testing either. Eyeballing it, though, I just wear both items.

I mean, what are you going to do? Go to your moghouse and remove your furnishing too?

Learn to use this. Its the best thing I've ever found for crafting skill ups.

http://ffxi.lokyst.net/timer/crafttimer.html

Keep your difficulty between 2-3 for best skill up/break ratio. If its cheap and you dont care do 4-5, anything past 5 skills too slow and breaks too frequently. I use my +1 items all the time to do synths that are past my level, but I always keep my difficulty range between my optimal range.

*Shrugs.* I like to keep my skill level at 3.5 and get great skill-ups with a low amount of breaks.

<< Crafting noob

I know that when you go to skill up something like Parry, you pile on as much Skill+ gear as possible so that it procs more, but the game still counts you as being your base skill and you skill up based on that.

Is it so different in crafting? Get as much skill+ gear as you can to reduce failures but you still skill towards your base?

1 for sure thing is: you are NOT going to get skill ups if you crafting something that caps over 5 lvls over you lvl if it breaks.
When I was lvl 95 (cooking) I keep my hat on for a lvl 99 recepie, till I hit 98.
But guild items and soport* don't have anything to do with you actual lvl you can get up to +9 (cooking only) and still get skill ups from a 100 recepie if you are lvl 99.

My personal rule of thumb that I use when crafting is:

1) with +1 GP item AND Adv Synth support, up to 7 levels over current skill
2) without GP items AND Adv Synth support, up to 6 levels over current skill

I get minimal breaks and I get a good selection range on what I can skill up off of.

*side note*
This is just an observation, but one thing I've noticed with both synth'ing and fishing (I've done testing under various moon conditions) is that both synths and fishing items/fish appear to have different skill up windows (independant of moon phase). Think of it along the lines of a lot roll (000 thru 999)... say for 1 target synth/fish you get a skill up if you roll anything above a 920, anything below you get nothing... but on another target item synth/fish you get a skillup if you roll anything a 885.
This is all just for examples sake, but it seems that some synth items & fish have better chance for skill ups than others (this REALLY seems to be the case with fishing).

Crafting Skill+ Gear has little to no affect on skill up rates. You will not see appreciably less skill rate when using it. It does affect skill level when checking results: NQ / HQ / Break / Loss, this includes skill gained from equipment & support effects (Belt, paid / unpaid). The only time you should not be wearing your skill+ gear is if your looking for a "fail" result or NQ version [occasionally needed for some upgrade synth items & high level skill synths].

that being said always wear your skill+ gear and get support it will not slow your skill gain.

Unless you are break synthing for skill.

But then I suppose your main craft skill wouldn't really matter, eh?