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[Dev] RNG: Ammo Adjustments
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-13 17:36:01
| 09-11-2012 02:42 PM | | Okipuit | | Community Rep |  |
| | Fellow rangers,
I have some great news! The lead developer is proceeding to analyze the cost for ammo made via synthesis and synergy, as well as considering ways for rangers to be more conservative through job abilities.
We definitely appreciate the feedback provided so far in this and the Producer Matsui suggestion thread; they will be take into consideration. However, if you have any left over concrete feedback you would like to provide or if there is a really great suggestion that you feel must be implemented, please let us know! | |
| 11-07-2012 06:50 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition
Hello,
Matsui & co. have discussed adjustments related to the cost of ammunition, and we are thinking about the following adjustments:
Add Recycle job traits
We want Recycle to be learned as a basic job trait, with the degree of the effect increasing at certain levels.
Increase the effects of recycle items and merit points on the probability of triggering Recycle.
Although we could increase the number from a synthesis result or have ammo be sold in stores, we think it will be of greater benefit to increase the effectiveness of Recycle.
So that you have an idea of the amount of Recycle we are talking about, at the moment, we are considering that the combined effect of merit points, equipment, and the job trait could increase the Recycle rate to about 90% (not taking into account damage reduction by making certain gear choices).
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 11-07-2012 12:38 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| | Hello!
Producer Matsui has been carefully looking into ways to address players’ concerns about ammo costs, and is planning on the below changes:
Recycle job trait
- Instead of acquiring this trait via merit points, it will be learned naturally through leveling. The strength of the effect will increase in tiers depending on your level.
- Adding merit points to the Recycle category will enhance the activation rate.
While there were other suggestions given as feedback, the development team feels that increasing the effect of Recycle holds the most benefit. They are still in the midst of discussing what would be a good amount to enhance it, but as a starting point they have currently mentioned a rate of 90% with the job trait, merit points, and equipment. Please note that they are not planning any kind of damage decrease to go along with these changes.
We will be sure to keep you posted on any additional information we hear! | |
| 11-08-2012 07:53 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition (continued)
{{Couple of JP Posts about Scout's Beret +2 augment essentially saying it will become a required piece of gear for all RNGs for almost everything, asking if that was intentional.
[JP Post 1 - Siren.Momama]
[JP Post 2 - Bismarck.Sclud] }}
In the current state, with 5 merits in "Recycle," ultimately, the effect will yield TP+5 about 90% of the time, as you said. However, in order to allow for the use of a variety of equipment, this does not seem acceptable at this time. I would appreciate any further feedback, if you have any.
Translated by: Slycer | |
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Fupafighters 2012-09-13 17:55:41
Best damn thing I have heard all year. If it's low enough on cost, there will be alot more rangers out there ^^
 Bahamut.Bekisa
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Bekisa 2012-09-13 18:13:31
1) RNG's and future RNG's (and COR's) rejoice
2) Crafters /butthurt (get used to it, RDM been dealing with it for years now!)
Bismarck.Beniyahou
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Beniyahou 2012-09-13 18:15:29
Don't know about bullets, but arrows were already cheap, last I checked. It's just the 1500% markup on the auction house that hurts.
Odin.Liela
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Liela 2012-09-13 18:24:10
This is why I stopped playing rng. I skilled up woodworking to 100 just to make arrows, but started associating "Please come to XYZ event on rng" with "Please spend another two hours bored out of your skull in town synthing arrows, or else pay a truckton of gil for them." And paying for bullets was usually worse.
Maybe it will be easier to get back into rng with some ammo adjustments. ^^
Bismarck.Helel
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Helel 2012-09-13 18:35:10
Bismarck.Beniyahou said: »Don't know about bullets, but arrows were already cheap, last I checked. It's just the 1500% markup on the auction house that hurts.
Who cares. There's absolutely no reason to buy arrows other than for procs. This adjustment will benefit gun-users (aka RNGs that know what they're doing) due to the ridiculous cost of adaman ores/ingots. I hope they add recycle effect to v-shot or even decoy shot since they're talking about JAs. Scout's beret +2 will become even more awesome.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-09-13 18:42:36
1) 2) Crafters /butthurt (get used to it, RDM been dealing with it for years now!) I don't think this is gunna "hurt" crafters. It's the synths and crap that were off balance so if they fix them, then it crafters stand to make even more because of increased demand.
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Wardeniii 2012-09-13 18:43:29
Siren.Fupafighters said: »Best damn thing I have heard all year. If it's low enough on cost, there will be alot more rangers out there ^^
100-200K/stack for bullets really doesn't seem that horrid. It's kind of neat having certain jobs that are known for being expensive, while others aren't, but hey -- I guess they had to find something to make us feel like we're getting content this update.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 18:50:12
Siren.Fupafighters said: »Best damn thing I have heard all year. If it's low enough on cost, there will be alot more rangers out there ^^
What are people using rangers for at the moment that makes this relevant?
Voidwatch, Odin, and RNG is hella fun to play.
Also 100-200k a stack adds up quick! I go through more than a stack of adaman bullets in a x6 voidwatch. Between shooting as often as possible and Last Stand using up two bullets it starts to take a toll on the pocket.
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Funstealer 2012-09-13 19:06:40
i dont like this adjustment they shouldnt change it at all period
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-09-13 19:08:23
Bismarck.Funstealer said: »i dont like this adjustment they shouldnt change it at all period True to your name eh? But I have to ask, why?
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Server: Asura
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 19:09:43
He hates fun!
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-13 19:22:18
More powerful ammo made widely available to players requiring RNG slackers to dig deeper into their pockets to keep up with the standard.
o.o? I tried to see this in a negative light and that's all I can come up with.
Server: Phoenix
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 19:26:11
The huge problem with rng is the fact that the job is always going to deal sub par damage and spend an extraordinary amount more on consumables than any other job.
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Inspectorgadget 2012-09-13 19:26:30
you dont need anything more than the cheapo Iron arrows you can buy for 8g from the NPC in Port Jeuno when you're trying to proc in Voidwatch.
As for the higher level stuff, cost isn't that bad, the availability is though, there just arent enough crafters that are making them right now.
Sylph.Knala
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 678
By Sylph.Knala 2012-09-13 19:37:34
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »The huge problem with rng is the fact that the job is always going to deal sub par damage and spend an extraordinary amount more on consumables than any other job.
i think you are underestimating just how potent the recent ranged delay update was coupled with an anni rng and last stand, the only real problem rng faces is the fact they usually do not get the same level of treatment as your typical top tier DD aka lacking the high end buffs.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 19:41:25
RNG is still lackluster compared to any competent and buffed DD. RNG is only really used as a low enmity/out of range DD. It would surely be powerful comparatively if haste buffs didn't exist, sadly they do.
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Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-09-13 19:45:40
Is the cat in your avatar yours? It looks like a baller.
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 19:47:16
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »The huge problem with rng is the fact that the job is always going to deal sub par damage and spend an extraordinary amount more on consumables than any other job.
Subpar? What? In what event that you bring RNGs to do they only do Subpar damage?
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 19:49:33
That's the point though, you're only going to bring RNG to an event like Odin 2. It's obviously going to do good damage there since your other DDs are constantly getting dispelled. RNG will always be comparatively lackluster whenever being against fully buffed DDs(not your general idiot who WSes every 200% and doesn't use food)
By ScaevolaBahamut 2012-09-13 19:50:51
So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"?
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 19:51:23
I bring RNG to voidwatch all the time as well and it absolutely destroys. It's damage is anything but subpar, it's almost annoying when people say things like this.
Dusty wings are constantly refreshed, and no one weaponskills harder than a RNG unless they spike.
*edit* or under souleater xD
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 Shiva.Zykei
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Zykei 2012-09-13 19:56:21
So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"? Haste and last resort are getting nerfed? That's news to me...
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 19:56:51
So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"? Clearly not, seeing as DDs can tank and deal damage just fine on the majority of fights. RNG will obviously be lackluster in legion, with or without PD. The arguement of dusty wings is flawed, seeing as any DD is still going to be WSing constantly without the use of wings even. You completely ignore TP damage as well, which is a huge advantage compared to your slow shots.
Asura.Kese
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By Asura.Kese 2012-09-13 20:01:22
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"? Clearly not, seeing as DDs can tank and deal damage just fine on the majority of fights. RNG will obviously be lackluster in legion, with or without PD. The arguement of dusty wings is flawed, seeing as any DD is still going to be WSing constantly without the use of wings even. You completely ignore TP damage as well, which is a huge advantage compared to your slow shots. huh? last mul i did, the anni ranger took first and the yoichi took second on parse. this was without pd.
Lakshmi.Kolvar
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Kolvar 2012-09-13 20:03:00
As a game long RNG, I cringe at the price of ammo for the small increase they offer in damage.Some real ammo that increases the damage by a real amount I would be willing to pay the prices now.
The prices now are based on the number of RNGs out there. So few that crafters don't make a lot of ammo but when they do, they jack the price.
Server: Phoenix
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 20:04:38
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"? Clearly not, seeing as DDs can tank and deal damage just fine on the majority of fights. RNG will obviously be lackluster in legion, with or without PD. The arguement of dusty wings is flawed, seeing as any DD is still going to be WSing constantly without the use of wings even. You completely ignore TP damage as well, which is a huge advantage compared to your slow shots. huh? last mul i did, the anni ranger took first and the yoichi took second on parse. this was without pd. Get better DDs? Also you're better off PDing mul and getting more kills in anyways, I'm assuming your DDs had to turtle up on many fights. I guess Mul would be another zone where RNG would actually work if they nerfed PD into uselessness though. Anyways, I didn't come in here to ***on RNG, I still like the job. I was just saying that their ammo cost is disproportionate to their damage and that this update is welcome.
Asura.Kese
Server: Asura
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Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2012-09-13 20:11:27
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »Phoenix.Dramatica said: »So your argument is "ranger would be a good DD if it weren't for the existence of a couple abilities/temp items that SE has explicitly noted as gamebreaking and in line to be nerfed"? Clearly not, seeing as DDs can tank and deal damage just fine on the majority of fights. RNG will obviously be lackluster in legion, with or without PD. The arguement of dusty wings is flawed, seeing as any DD is still going to be WSing constantly without the use of wings even. You completely ignore TP damage as well, which is a huge advantage compared to your slow shots. huh? last mul i did, the anni ranger took first and the yoichi took second on parse. this was without pd. Get better DDs? Also you're better off PDing mul and getting more kills in anyways, I'm assuming your DDs had to turtle up on many fights. I guess Mul would be another zone where RNG would actually work if they nerfed PD into uselessness though. Anyways, I didn't come in here to ***on RNG, I still like the job. I was just saying that their ammo cost is disproportionate to their damage and that this update is welcome.
you are so far out of the loop man, i do mul with the jp and they have no trouble killing upwards of two sets of gallu/rex so nice try and thats with 1 smn.
my other group does PD way and 5 DD and i can say after 10+ mul wins, it is overall easier and much faster how we do it with the jp without PD.
then why spread false information and say rng is lackluster in legion, and then say your just talking about bullets?...mindblown.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 20:23:44
I would love to be enlightened on to how you manage double rex kills without PD. This is 18man yes? I'm not outright calling ***, but I am highly skeptical of your claims here.
 Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
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Posts: 11372
By Garuda.Chanti 2012-09-13 20:26:09
Ummmm....
Read the original citation again. They aren't promising anything save to look at ammo costs.
As both a crafter and a SAM/RNG (if anyone ever asks me to /RNG again in my life that is) as well as RNG 60something, I level on ammo then move on. I am sitting on the materials to make several stacks of Bloody Bolt quivers and a L 83 Woodworker. But I haven't made the quivers yet. I would rather spend my time skilling up.
Suggestion: Let the currently useless Woodworking Boltmaker GP ability HQ stuff. As in NQ 1 stack, HQ 1 - 3 making 2 - 4 stacks. Let it also apply to arrows. Give Alchemists a similar bulletmaker GP ability.
Full disclosure: I have a L 100 Alchemist too.
| 09-11-2012 02:42 PM | | Okipuit | | Community Rep | |
| | Fellow rangers,
I have some great news! The lead developer is proceeding to analyze the cost for ammo made via synthesis and synergy, as well as considering ways for rangers to be more conservative through job abilities.
We definitely appreciate the feedback provided so far in this and the Producer Matsui suggestion thread; they will be take into consideration. However, if you have any left over concrete feedback you would like to provide or if there is a really great suggestion that you feel must be implemented, please let us know! | |
| 11-07-2012 06:50 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition
Hello,
Matsui & co. have discussed adjustments related to the cost of ammunition, and we are thinking about the following adjustments:
Add Recycle job traits
We want Recycle to be learned as a basic job trait, with the degree of the effect increasing at certain levels.
Increase the effects of recycle items and merit points on the probability of triggering Recycle.
Although we could increase the number from a synthesis result or have ammo be sold in stores, we think it will be of greater benefit to increase the effectiveness of Recycle.
So that you have an idea of the amount of Recycle we are talking about, at the moment, we are considering that the combined effect of merit points, equipment, and the job trait could increase the Recycle rate to about 90% (not taking into account damage reduction by making certain gear choices).
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 11-07-2012 12:38 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Hello!
Producer Matsui has been carefully looking into ways to address players’ concerns about ammo costs, and is planning on the below changes:
Recycle job trait
- Instead of acquiring this trait via merit points, it will be learned naturally through leveling. The strength of the effect will increase in tiers depending on your level.
- Adding merit points to the Recycle category will enhance the activation rate.
While there were other suggestions given as feedback, the development team feels that increasing the effect of Recycle holds the most benefit. They are still in the midst of discussing what would be a good amount to enhance it, but as a starting point they have currently mentioned a rate of 90% with the job trait, merit points, and equipment. Please note that they are not planning any kind of damage decrease to go along with these changes.
We will be sure to keep you posted on any additional information we hear! | |
| 11-08-2012 07:53 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition (continued)
{{Couple of JP Posts about Scout's Beret +2 augment essentially saying it will become a required piece of gear for all RNGs for almost everything, asking if that was intentional.
[JP Post 1 - Siren.Momama]
[JP Post 2 - Bismarck.Sclud] }}
In the current state, with 5 merits in "Recycle," ultimately, the effect will yield TP+5 about 90% of the time, as you said. However, in order to allow for the use of a variety of equipment, this does not seem acceptable at this time. I would appreciate any further feedback, if you have any.
Translated by: Slycer | |
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