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Producer Matsui reveals changes to SP Abilities
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-09-06 13:36:01
I feel some legion mobs will _need_ to be adjusted if they nerf PD alone, never mind embrava. Off the top of my head -
Mired Hydra/Alfard, both immune to stun and nerve gas spam.
Lofty Elasmoth, stun immune again, curse spikes, meteor etc
Soaring Strigoi, complete ***wipe NM, builds stun resist, big aoe damage, charmga, doom etc
Soaring Corse/Kumatatok, both spam charm, almost unstunnable is very fast. Corses are easily stunnable and elasmoth can be done without PD with some sweating. Strigoi though, that one does suck big time.
Don't remember hydras, it's been a while.
Edit: oh snap, once upon a page, didn't notice lol.
 Leviathan.Syagin
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2012-09-06 13:44:20
I must say I love the change. How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet? I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change: A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD. B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again. And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with. I don't usually post but I agree with this fully! being a SCH and SMN I know and you ALL know ithe jobs are over the top w/ those JA's I makes the event that much easier... AND it also limits the use of job I thought to be NEEDED in the game "Whm" for example. people are not even attempting to explore any other forms of winning strats they are only going for the "sure fire win" SMN/SCH and tons of DD. come on people it's not rocket science to ask why I would be happy that this is taking place. and as for your A and B reasons for wanting this to happen is none of the above. I actually love a challange.
By Kimble2013 2012-09-06 13:46:36
Saying and doing are two different things. If they nerf PD and Embrava, and they take 6+ months to actually fix the events, its going to kill off more of the player base.
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1808
By Siren.Novadragon 2012-09-06 13:47:21
I must say I love the change. How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet? I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change: A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD. B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again. And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with. I don't usually post but I agree with this fully! being a SCH and SMN I know and you ALL know ithe jobs are over the top w/ those JA's I makes the event that much easier... AND it also limits the use of job I thought to be NEEDED in the game "Whm" for example. people are not even attempting to explore any other forms of winning strats they are only going for the "sure fire win" SMN/SCH and tons of DD. come on people it's not rocket science to ask why I would be happy that this is taking place. and as for your A and B reasons for wanting this to happen is none of the above. I actually love a challange.
I agree also. I prefer RPGs that actually took more strategy. I got so bored with the game due to players wanting Smns/Schs mainly and the best DD jobs with empys/mythics/relics only. That even people I know didn't want a 85-90 Masa Sam for Provenance. >.> That I was counted a weakling even though I was very highly underestimated.
 Gilgamesh.Nynja
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 122
By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 13:49:57
being a SCH and SMN I know and you ALL know ithe jobs are over the top w/ those JA's I makes the event that much easier... AND it also limits the use of job I thought to be NEEDED in the game "Whm" for example. people are not even attempting to explore any other forms of winning strats they are only going for the "sure fire win" SMN/SCH and tons of DD. come on people it's not rocket science to ask why I would be happy that this is taking place. and as for your A and B reasons for wanting this to happen is none of the above. I actually love a challange. I dont want to sound like a "lazy unskilled player", but how else do you plan to beat something that can arbitrarily do 1500 damage 25' aoe attacks at will? Have everyone turtle up? Sounds good if you werent in a timed event, except you are...and by turtling up, you time out.
Turtling up wont even save you from a conal TP move that flat out induces death with NO means of avoiding it.
The solution to creating harder content should NEVER EVER mean creating content that can flip the bird at will.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1808
By Siren.Novadragon 2012-09-06 13:52:04
being a SCH and SMN I know and you ALL know ithe jobs are over the top w/ those JA's I makes the event that much easier... AND it also limits the use of job I thought to be NEEDED in the game "Whm" for example. people are not even attempting to explore any other forms of winning strats they are only going for the "sure fire win" SMN/SCH and tons of DD. come on people it's not rocket science to ask why I would be happy that this is taking place. and as for your A and B reasons for wanting this to happen is none of the above. I actually love a challange. I dont want to sound like a "lazy unskilled player", but how else do you plan to beat something that can arbitrarily do 1500 damage 25' aoe attacks at will? Have everyone turtle up? Sounds good if you werent in a timed event, except you are...and by turtling up, you time out.
Patch the end-game so your not 1 shotted but still adds a challenge. People will be against these nerfs since it's natural not to like change.
Gilgamesh.Nynja
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 122
By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 13:55:42
Patch the end-game so your not 1 shotted but still adds a challenge. People will be against these nerfs since it's natural not to like change.
Thats what everyone here is asking for though. I'm pretty sure all 3 communities (NA/JP/EU) will be elated to hear a nerf to PD/Embrava, as long as it means that content that mandates their utility be adjusted as well.
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 Ragnarok.Zirael
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Ragnarok.Zirael 2012-09-06 14:32:50
The most likely thing that will happen is a reduction of time for both abilities. Not sure what an acceptable duration of new abilities is though. PD being a one time use under Astral Flow made the duration acceptable considering you could do 3-4 SP Blood Pacts of the other avatars during Astral Flow except Odin ofcourse. Whatever the nerf will be, it will make Embrava and PD not worth using. That's the whole point of this. I'd expect PD to become as useful as Diamond Dust or Gallant's Roll etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the change; PD/Embrava zergfest requirement was starting to got to ridiculous levels.
I really wouldn't hold any hope that SMN and SCH will keep their toys to play with as anything more than situational gimmick.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-06 14:40:34
It was already translated this morning by Slycer over on BG, but here is the official post anyways:
| 09-06-2012 01:45 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | Hello!
Thank you so much for the abundance of quick responses!
In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.
For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.
As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.
Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.
Also, the situation of not having enough recast timer slots has not yet changed. In order to resolve this problem we are currently working to expand the space; however, this resolution is critical for the separation of the special job ability recast timers. This is also one reason for the delay in implementation.
Once we have completed this expansion, we believe that we will be able to improve not only the special job abilities, but other abilities that have been limited by this restriction (Steal/Despoil, Soul Jump/Spirit Jump, etc.) | |
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Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 14:51:14
Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects. Incoming Azure Lore/Unbridled Wisdom nerf, calling it now.
Revision of content is encouraging though, provided they get it done no later than whenever they get around to adjusting the 2hrs themselves.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-09-06 14:52:50
I dont see how they could nerf unbridled learning, it only has a handful of useful spells and its every 5 minutes.
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By Shirukenu 2012-09-06 14:58:52
So uhm, what exactly -will- scholars be used for after this?
(Heck, I'm wondering what they think Red Mages should be doing)
By theeklipse85 2012-09-06 15:06:42
So uhm, what exactly -will- scholars be used for after this? (Heck, I'm wondering what they think Red Mages should be doing)
I'm going to go ahead and say the same things they just might actually have to do more then just cast embrava.
Sch's are awesome for fell cleaves as well as exp parties, if your party isnt so nubified they think stealing the ISL from the sch because embrava is a waste of time....some of these "abyssea only" leveled nubs kill me.
as far as the smn nerf, and im' speaking without fully knowing the deatils but could you just spam shock squal or w/e like chainspell stun with their new 2hr once PD wears for ADL
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-09-06 15:06:52
Schs will still be taken to NNI I'm sure. They will still have Embrava and the regain spell.
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Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 15:09:19
I dont see how they could nerf unbridled learning, it only has a handful of useful spells and its every 5 minutes. you've got the wrong unbridled thingy, try again
So uhm, what exactly -will- scholars be used for after this?
(Heck, I'm wondering what they think Red Mages should be doing) I'd still take SCH over WHM for a lot of content. If Embrava is even slightly useful then you'll still see them using it + Kaustra, but it'll be more of a mild perk than the dominating reason for their presence.
 Bahamut.Vagrua
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2012-09-06 15:12:18
Schs will still be taken to NNI I'm sure. They will still have Embrava and the regain spell.
You may better off with another DD if the Embrava nerf is significant.
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 15:14:01
BRD + SCH and leave the BRD at the rune would probably be a good option. You're going to want two support jobs regardless unless you have a full complement of self-sufficient DDs.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-09-06 15:15:11
SAM is gonna have the most retardiculously overpowered set of 2hrs if neither one is nerfed. That said, I expect a buff to occur, Meikyo Shisui using only 50 TP per WS and the new 2hr adding the ability for weaponskills to crit 100% of the time.
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Bahamut.Vagrua
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2012-09-06 15:15:40
or Brd + WHM.
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 15:16:50
You lose more than you gain by switching a SCH to WHM unless they're meleeing.
EDIT: Actually, maybe even with that. You lose access to Accession Phalanx and Accession Enspell, along with their nuking perks. Reduced stratagem count even when /SCH may impair ability to sleepga.
Leviathan.Syagin
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2012-09-06 15:18:06
Since when you needed a " real strat" in FF to beat any boss? and with real strat
@ Aikawa Stop talking out your *** dude, because you just sound silly...
Bahamut.Vagrua
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2012-09-06 15:29:03
You lose more than you gain by switching a SCH to WHM unless they're meleeing.
EDIT: Actually, maybe even with that. You lose access to Accession Phalanx and Accession Enspell, along with their nuking perks. Reduced stratagem count even when /SCH may impair ability to sleepga.
WHM gives boost-str +25, curagas, auspice, stoneskin with cures, and is just as able to keep up with haste cycles as any other job. I find it annoying that you rule it out completely. I'm not saying it is ideal, but I believe it could play part in the role also.
Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-09-06 15:34:38
Do they expect us to be able to use both DRG 2hours at once? Cause I wanna know how that's supposed to work, lol.
Spirit surge eats the wyvern, and rouse wyvern makes it invincible. <,<
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 15:45:08
I find it annoying that you rule it out completely. Are you illiterate? Let me repeat myself: you lose more than you gain by switching your SCH to WHM except maybe if they melee. Where in that sentence do I "rule it out completely"?
Quote: WHM gives boost-str +25, curagas, auspice, stoneskin with cures Boost-STR is really only significant for jobs with a STR-based WS in Nyzul, curaga is of minimal interest since you split up for most floors, auspice is basically a nonfactor, and phalanx is far more valuable than stoneskin when you consider that you're primarily fighting fodder.
Bahamut.Vagrua
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2012-09-06 15:53:14
I find it annoying that you rule it out completely. Are you illiterate? Let me repeat myself: you lose more than you gain by switching your SCH to WHM except maybe if they melee. Where in that sentence do I "rule it out completely"?
So you do believe that WHM could perform the job successfully regardless of SCH's so-called advantages?
I'm just looking for you to acknowledge that WHM is capable of doing it.
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-06 15:57:58
I never said it couldn't. In theory it is POSSIBLE to clear Nyzul with nearly any setup, but bringing a SCH is a MORE EFFECTIVE use of the slot than a WHM. Quit trying to argue things I never said.
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By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-09-06 16:02:30
Bringing a job to solely play the healer's role is just something that isn't practical for current Neo-Nyzul.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-09-06 16:03:29
idk why anyone would want to decrease their chances of success just 'cause "it's possible"
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Valefor.Kiaru
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 361
By Valefor.Kiaru 2012-09-06 16:04:39
So uhm, what exactly -will- scholars be used for after this?
(Heck, I'm wondering what they think Red Mages should be doing) SCH is arguably a better main healer than WHM and equal nuker to BLM. It's also the best stunner and CCer. Kasutra makes it a very good AOEing job too. SCH is not SMN, it's a great job WITHOUT its 2hour.
Quote: WHM gives boost-str +25, curagas, auspice, stoneskin with cures Perp regenga5 beats solace and curagas, phalanx is also icing on the cake. Firestorm + regain is equal to boostr str.
Really, perp regenga5 provides more damage reduction than any ability in the game besides PD(phalanx wins if it'll reduce damage to 0).
Bahamut.Vagrua
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2012-09-06 16:05:22
Maybe in theory, but unfortunately most people go with their cookie cutter setups neglecting other jobs completely.
I thought about this for a few minutes and decided it would be best to make a new topic for this one post so more players might get a chance to see the news. I will be making a copy of this post in the original topic, and future updates will be posted there, but this is just to share the changes Producer Akihiko Matsui announced on the official forums.
| 09-05-2012 01:07 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Hello this is Matsui.
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I have some follow up information in regards to SP abilities.
Today we once again looked into what would be the best way to implement the new SP abilities moving forward. I’d like to give a brief summary of the development plans based on the results of our discussion.
The below are the 4 main aspects of change for the 2-hour abilities.
New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation
As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.
We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.
Recast time reduction
Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects.
New SP ability effects revamp
Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.
This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.
Existing SP ability effects revamp
We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.
- Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
- Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp
Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.
As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.
With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.
We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there. | |
| 09-06-2012 01:45 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Hello!
Thank you so much for the abundance of quick responses!
In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.
For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.
As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.
Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.
Also, the situation of not having enough recast timer slots has not yet changed. In order to resolve this problem we are currently working to expand the space; however, this resolution is critical for the separation of the special job ability recast timers. This is also one reason for the delay in implementation.
Once we have completed this expansion, we believe that we will be able to improve not only the special job abilities, but other abilities that have been limited by this restriction (Steal/Despoil, Soul Jump/Spirit Jump, etc.) | |
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