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Producer Matsui reveals changes to SP Abilities
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-06 12:12:25
I must say I love the change.
How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?
I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.
And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with. I feel that they introduced these abilities so they could give enemies the ability to utterly destroy any team without it. As much as I feel the enemy should have the advantage at all times all the way up until it's defeat, I do not agree with mass instant kill abilities. This is why I have wanted PD changed from the beginning, it allowed players to go up against crazy powerful enemies and walk away unscratched, and I don't find that to be very enjoyable. If I wanted to dominate an enemy I could walk outside San d'Oria and go on a murderous rampage against bunnies and orcs, but I want some real tactical challenge against the enemies I gear up to face against.
True, fixing PD and Embrava will not make the game a tactical challenge, because it never was to begin with really except for rare cases. However I feel that the producer really wants to change the game for the better here. He has been keeping in touch with the community quite often collecting the feedback of players personally, then coming back with results. He doesn't tell players it's not possible, he is getting something done without hesitation. Whether these changes are going to be for the better we won't quiet know for a few months, but atm I still have high hopes for these changes that are coming to the game very rapidly. Since when you needed a "real strat" in FF to beat any boss? hmmmm...
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-06 12:22:37
Sure is selective memory in here saying no battles formerly required any strategies.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-06 12:27:26
I think there is plenty of strategy for parts of the game. Depending on your situation and what you have available to you over the course of your time playing this game you've come up with strategies for battles you're about to face. I'm not saying that the game was necessarily difficult, but no one just grabbed 3 random people and didn't care about what job or level they were on to go to a KSNM fight. Organizing and planning out who does what and when was always a part of the game.
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By Siren.Novadragon 2012-09-06 12:28:03
FFX - Dark Aeons: couldn't take them out with pure damage. Same for Penance kill his arms or it's judgement day which is insta-kill unless your Aeons take the hit.
FFIX - Ozma: take him out without getting the friendly animals.
FFVII - Emerald Weapon: got to watch out for his crucial damage.
FFVIII - Omega Weapon: control your damage or he will just 9999 all of your characters.
FFXIII - Long Gui: That mob can 1-2 shot you with ease at max crystarium.
FFXI: Pandemonium Warden: Take him out on the level 75 cap.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-06 12:39:20
FFX - Dark Aeons couldn't take them out with pure damage. Same for Penance kill his arms or it's judgement day which is insta-kill unless your Aeons take the hit.
FFIX - Ozma: take him out without getting the friendly animals.
FFVII - Emerald Weapon: got to watch out for his crucial damage.
FFVIII - Omega Weapon: control your damage or he will just 9999 all of your characters.
FFXIII - Long Gui: That mob can 1-2 shot you with ease at max crystarium.
Relevant to FFXI:
Glavoid: Improved on Lambton Worms mechanics, was tough @Abyssea 80 cap, punished poor timing.
Dark Ixion: Promoted moving around, introduced attacks that were AOE in nature, kept DD on their toes to avoid being Zeus'd, Rampant Stanced or Speared.
Proto-Ultima: Went through multiple phases of attacks, utilized immunity fields, readily available to dodge super-attack coupled with a recoverable high damage AOE attack.
King Arthro (Doomvoid): Utilized dangerous adds, required skillchain/magic burst/crit mechanics to defeat.
Dynamis: Required crowd control, proper choice of monsters fought, preparation for pulls, attention paid to details.
Yilbegan: Required proper timing to deal correct damage, encouraged variety of DD damage, cued his super attack via visuals.
 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2012-09-06 12:40:03
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Zergs can be stopped, it's been done before.
I don't think they should stop them completely. There should always be some zerg-able fights. They just shouldn't be EVERY fight. What we need is variety. Kiting, zerging, tank 'n spank, skill chain nuking, Dancing with the Avatars, etc. It remains to be seen just how creative the devs can be without being ruthlessly cruel. Maybe this is the first step towards that. If so, then I'll definitely give Matsui his due.
 Gilgamesh.Nynja
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By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 12:41:54
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »NNI is winnable without Embrava. I'd estimate you could expect over 1/3 winrate for a good group without it. It just makes everything that much easier.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
OH wait you were serious?
Server: Siren
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Posts: 573
By Siren.Fupafighters 2012-09-06 12:45:13
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »NNI is winnable without Embrava. I'd estimate you could expect over 1/3 winrate for a good group without it. It just makes everything that much easier.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
OH wait you were serious? If you get no order lamps and basically all kill specified enemy, thn yeah, you can win. lol...... -.-
Server: Siren
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By Siren.Novadragon 2012-09-06 12:47:28
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »FFX - Dark Aeons couldn't take them out with pure damage. Same for Penance kill his arms or it's judgement day which is insta-kill unless your Aeons take the hit.
FFIX - Ozma: take him out without getting the friendly animals.
FFVII - Emerald Weapon: got to watch out for his crucial damage.
FFVIII - Omega Weapon: control your damage or he will just 9999 all of your characters.
FFXIII - Long Gui: That mob can 1-2 shot you with ease at max crystarium.
Relevant to FFXI:
Glavoid: Improved on Lambton Worms mechanics, was tough @Abyssea 80 cap, punished poor timing.
Dark Ixion: Promoted moving around, introduced attacks that were AOE in nature, kept DD on their toes to avoid being Zeus'd, Rampant Stanced or Speared.
Proto-Ultima: Went through multiple phases of attacks, utilized immunity fields, readily available to dodge super-attack coupled with a recoverable high damage AOE attack.
King Arthro (Doomvoid): Utilized dangerous adds, required skillchain/magic burst/crit mechanics to defeat.
Dynamis: Required crowd control, proper choice of monsters fought, preparation for pulls, attention paid to details.
Yilbegan: Required proper timing to deal correct damage, encouraged variety of DD damage, cued his super attack via visuals.
Don't forget Tiamat. She had alot of HP for a Wyrm at 75 cap lol. Promys at 30 cap, Kill omg kite Kirin at the very old times.
Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-09-06 12:48:05
Dat swaps > Embrava for NN, half of a NN is running around not even engaged. It would limit certain jobs that rely on the regen but thats about it. Definitely winnable without Embrava just at a much lower rate.
 Bahamut.Maven
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Maven 2012-09-06 12:50:39
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »NNI is winnable without Embrava. I'd estimate you could expect over 1/3 winrate for a good group without it. It just makes everything that much easier.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA OH wait you were serious?
3 rag DD / 2 sch who actually know how to play it (not just embrava ***), keep up fireststorm/regen V/phalanx/enblizzard/adloqium/pertuance haste, and a brd/cor could pull it off
Gilgamesh.Nynja
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By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 12:58:03
Why would you bring 2 sch's if they're not doing embrava?
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2012-09-06 12:58:22
Most HNM's required proper strategy/hate concerns/careful and precise stunning
Tiamat/Khimaira were my favorite for this
Tiamat especially, could get really intense at night, fun times when we'd be getting close to night and people would be like brace yourselves for liklihood of aggros.
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Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-09-06 12:58:23
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »NNI is winnable without Embrava. I'd estimate you could expect over 1/3 winrate for a good group without it. It just makes everything that much easier.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA OH wait you were serious?
3 rag DD / 2 sch who actually know how to play it (not just embrava ***), keep up fireststorm/regen V/phalanx/enblizzard/adloqium/pertuance haste, and a brd/cor could pull it off
Yeah something along those lines. We were winning with 5 people NP. (6th was a buyer)
Bahamut.Maven
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By Bahamut.Maven 2012-09-06 12:59:30
you'd still be doing embrava you just wouldnt have it the whole time, be worth while getting your pants trialed in dyna, and find a casket to lock ur tab up , but not having it for the first few jumps if it was just spec/lamps etc you could get it done if they cut the duration in half.
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By Siren.Fupafighters 2012-09-06 12:59:41
Why would you bring 2 sch's if they're not doing embrava? I could honestly seeing brd taking over a 6th slot in NN lol. But daurdaubla required.
Bahamut.Maven
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Maven 2012-09-06 13:00:34
Siren.Fupafighters said: »Why would you bring 2 sch's if they're not doing embrava? I could honestly seeing brd taking over a 6th slot in NN lol. But daurdaubla required.
thought that was obvious lol
Server: Siren
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By Siren.Fupafighters 2012-09-06 13:01:19
Siren.Fupafighters said: »Why would you bring 2 sch's if they're not doing embrava? I could honestly seeing brd taking over a 6th slot in NN lol. But daurdaubla required.
thought that was obvious lol You know there will be a gimp group that goes with a +2 brd and complains they can't win in the future lol.
Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-09-06 13:01:38
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »Most HNM's required proper strategy/hate concerns/careful and precise stunning
Tiamat/Khimaira were my favorite for this
Tiamat especially, could get really intense at night, fun times when we'd be getting close to night and people would be like brace yourselves for liklihood of aggros.
100% agreed those were good mobs at 75.
Even kings required some sort of organization to take down at 75.
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Bahamut.Maven
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By Bahamut.Maven 2012-09-06 13:02:39
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »NNI is winnable without Embrava. I'd estimate you could expect over 1/3 winrate for a good group without it. It just makes everything that much easier. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA OH wait you were serious? 3 rag DD / 2 sch who actually know how to play it (not just embrava ***), keep up fireststorm/regen V/phalanx/enblizzard/adloqium/pertuance haste, and a brd/cor could pull it off Yeah something along those lines. We were winning with 5 people NP. (6th was a buyer)
ya have plenty of success running with 5 and a lamp ***, and now we got two more rag's so should be even easier
Bahamut.Maven
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By Bahamut.Maven 2012-09-06 13:04:07
Quote: You know there will be a gimp group that goes with a +2 brd and complains they can't win in the future lol.
true strike
Gilgamesh.Nynja
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By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 13:12:08
Even kings required some sort of organization to take down at 75. Even as simple as "stand on the two front feet"...you'd always have the idiots who would stand in its face, or the token SAM/THF who wouldnt understand and go SA-Gekko. Good times.
Remora.Kyron
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By Remora.Kyron 2012-09-06 13:20:09
I'm all for PD and Embrava changes. Neither are required for any event, they just make events more efficient.
Brews killed Abyssea
Fanatics killed VW
PD and Embrava make hard content available to the masses and allow good players to PWN hard content but neither are needed.
Groups clear Legion without PD I'm sure they use Embrava no reason not to. Groups kill ADL without PD. NN is doable without Embrava.
I do agree with this. Their was no need for brew or fanatics drinks in Aby or VW. On this note brew was not needed in WoE.
If you embrva, fine, you won't get your J back for 120 minutes, or in some cases your job abilities will be reset like in PW chambers.
Carbuncle.Shokox
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By Carbuncle.Shokox 2012-09-06 13:22:00
I have to say, the easiest way to fix Nyzul post Embrava nerf would be to make it a 45 minute event.
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By Siren.Novadragon 2012-09-06 13:24:49
I'm all for PD and Embrava changes. Neither are required for any event, they just make events more efficient.
Brews killed Abyssea
Fanatics killed VW
PD and Embrava make hard content available to the masses and allow good players to PWN hard content but neither are needed.
Groups clear Legion without PD I'm sure they use Embrava no reason not to. Groups kill ADL without PD. NN is doable without Embrava.
I do agree with this. Their was no need for brew or fanatics drinks in Aby or VW. On this note brew was not needed in WoE.
If you embrva, fine, you won't get your J back for 120 minutes, or in some cases your job abilities will be reset like in PW chambers.
Fanatics was needed for the T3+ VW due to hitting so hard. Even a Pld couldn't even stay alive too much against Pil. I know majority of VW didn't but Pil, Bismarck, Kalasutrax, Rex, Ig-Alima your talking almost the impossible without Fana/Fools.
Edit: Lets talk Fjalar as well. He is an absolute nightmare without the Nerf KI's. The Apkallu as well... Without Fana your basicly dead since his sleep Aoe has a MASSIVE range and adds zombie.
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By Lakshmi.Inspectorgadget 2012-09-06 13:27:53
I have to say, the easiest way to fix Nyzul post Embrava nerf would be to make it a 45 minute event.
I came up with something similar during discussions with my Nyzul group. Mine was along the lines of granting a 10 or 15 minute time extension after clearing a certain amount of floors. That way it rewards progression instead of relying on randomness.
Gilgamesh.Nynja
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By Gilgamesh.Nynja 2012-09-06 13:32:05
I do agree with this. Their was no need for brew or fanatics drinks in Aby or VW. On this note brew was not needed in WoE.
By all means, please show me a group thats going to survive rex's chainspell without fools.
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By Bismarck.Funstealer 2012-09-06 13:33:35
they need to make a tiamat type mob for level 99 was probably 1 of the best styles of fights and fun in this game
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-09-06 13:33:47
Lakshmi.Inspectorgadget said: »I have to say, the easiest way to fix Nyzul post Embrava nerf would be to make it a 45 minute event.
I came up with something similar during discussions with my Nyzul group. Mine was along the lines of granting a 10 or 15 minute time extension after clearing a certain amount of floors. That way it rewards progression instead of relying on randomness.
Continuing, they could also increase the minimum floor jump to say 5, instead of 2.
I thought about this for a few minutes and decided it would be best to make a new topic for this one post so more players might get a chance to see the news. I will be making a copy of this post in the original topic, and future updates will be posted there, but this is just to share the changes Producer Akihiko Matsui announced on the official forums.
| 09-05-2012 01:07 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | Hello this is Matsui.
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I have some follow up information in regards to SP abilities.
Today we once again looked into what would be the best way to implement the new SP abilities moving forward. I’d like to give a brief summary of the development plans based on the results of our discussion.
The below are the 4 main aspects of change for the 2-hour abilities.
New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation
As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.
We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.
Recast time reduction
Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects.
New SP ability effects revamp
Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.
This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.
Existing SP ability effects revamp
We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.
- Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
- Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp
Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.
As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.
With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.
We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there. | |
| 09-06-2012 01:45 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Hello!
Thank you so much for the abundance of quick responses!
In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.
For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.
As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.
Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.
Also, the situation of not having enough recast timer slots has not yet changed. In order to resolve this problem we are currently working to expand the space; however, this resolution is critical for the separation of the special job ability recast timers. This is also one reason for the delay in implementation.
Once we have completed this expansion, we believe that we will be able to improve not only the special job abilities, but other abilities that have been limited by this restriction (Steal/Despoil, Soul Jump/Spirit Jump, etc.) | |
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