Producer Matsui Reveals Changes To SP Abilities

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Producer Matsui reveals changes to SP Abilities
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By sprinkles84 2012-09-06 07:27:18
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A nerf to PD could be the length of time it lasts..

if it lasted 10 seconds even with 100% PD would still be PD just nerfed. could be similar with Embrava.. last considerably less.
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By Bismarck.Punchus 2012-09-06 07:39:29
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The most likely thing that will happen is a reduction of time for both abilities. Not sure what an acceptable duration of new abilities is though. PD being a one time use under Astral Flow made the duration acceptable considering you could do 3-4 SP Blood Pacts of the other avatars during Astral Flow except Odin ofcourse.
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By Lakshmi.Harkonnen 2012-09-06 07:41:39
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Anyone else thought that this is being done with Geomancer coming out with SoA.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2012-09-06 07:49:53
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Bismarck.Punchus said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Still shouldn't make anything impossible or require a nerf for any current content, that I can see.

PD becoming entirely worthless without a replacement would certainly cause problems in legion, but it's unlikely it'd be that severe. You still have a TON of options for mitigation, and if the new WHM 2h is equivalent to PD in status prevention then it's irrelevant if that's removed or not. I really can't see PD being reduced below 50% mitigation, personally, and even that feels like a huge stretch.

The few people who still haven't capped nyzul gear would probably be upset at an embrava nerf, but it'd depend what gets nerfed. A general weakening wouldn't really change much. Complete removal of the haste would just mean you bring BRD SCH instead of SCH SCH and demand capped fast cast on BRD then embrava last 15 min. Removal of regen would be mildly inconvenient, removal of regain would be irritating.

As I'm sure someone has pointed out in previous posts but there is Nothing Perfect about anything less than 100%.

pedantry is the realm of the moron
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By Leviathan.Syagin 2012-09-06 08:12:44
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I must say I love the change.
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By Asura.Sechs 2012-09-06 08:14:49
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Shiva.Alistrianna said: »
Also doubt they will let BST have a perma Familiar'd pet.
Because, especially with the sheer amount of useful pets you can charm these days, that would definitely bring the hour of twilight upon the game balance.
inorite?

But yeah, despite the fact that even perma-familiar would NOT be broken, I don't see that happening either.
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By Bismarck.Punchus 2012-09-06 08:15:19
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LMAO You are an idiot. If I am such a moron please inform us with your infinite wisdom the definition of Perfect Defense.
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By Sylph.Wardeniii 2012-09-06 08:26:31
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Leviathan.Syagin said: »
I must say I love the change.

How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?

I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.

And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with.
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By Bismarck.Mirax 2012-09-06 08:44:47
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Sylph.Wardeniii said: »
Leviathan.Syagin said: »
I must say I love the change.

How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?

I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.

And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with.

I don't usually post but I agree with this fully!
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By Aikawa 2012-09-06 09:48:28
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sprinkles84 said: »
A nerf to PD could be the length of time it lasts..

if it lasted 10 seconds even with 100% PD would still be PD just nerfed. could be similar with Embrava.. last considerably less.

It will only hurt Nyzul... other places you can lock Tabular Rasa...
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-06 10:00:55
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Sylph.Wardeniii said: »
Leviathan.Syagin said: »
I must say I love the change.

How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?

I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.

And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with.
I feel that they introduced these abilities so they could give enemies the ability to utterly destroy any team without it. As much as I feel the enemy should have the advantage at all times all the way up until it's defeat, I do not agree with mass instant kill abilities. This is why I have wanted PD changed from the beginning, it allowed players to go up against crazy powerful enemies and walk away unscratched, and I don't find that to be very enjoyable. If I wanted to dominate an enemy I could walk outside San d'Oria and go on a murderous rampage against bunnies and orcs, but I want some real tactical challenge against the enemies I gear up to face against.

True, fixing PD and Embrava will not make the game a tactical challenge, because it never was to begin with really except for rare cases. However I feel that the producer really wants to change the game for the better here. He has been keeping in touch with the community quite often collecting the feedback of players personally, then coming back with results. He doesn't tell players it's not possible, he is getting something done without hesitation. Whether these changes are going to be for the better we won't quiet know for a few months, but atm I still have high hopes for these changes that are coming to the game very rapidly.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-09-06 10:18:50
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I'm all for PD and Embrava changes. Neither are required for any event, they just make events more efficient.

Brews killed Abyssea
Fanatics killed VW

PD and Embrava make hard content available to the masses and allow good players to PWN hard content but neither are needed.

Groups clear Legion without PD I'm sure they use Embrava no reason not to. Groups kill ADL without PD. NN is doable without Embrava.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-06 10:23:56
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Sylph.Wardeniii said: »
Leviathan.Syagin said: »
I must say I love the change.

How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?

I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.

And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with.

The game as it stands is on an unsustainable course. Monsters were made too strong, players are forced to hide under the umbrellas of 2hr abilities/fanatics drinks and so many jobs have marginalized in the process that if SE truely intends to release an xpac for XI then these issues must be addressed. Tanking is dead, healing is marginalized, ranged attacks are less than ideal, pets are all but uselss and the only jobs able to survive in this environment are either there for procs or are pure DD that excel in a zerg environment.

In typical fashion post-Abyssea SE went from content being "too easy" to so stupid difficult and balance is required.

A first step is to nerf the invincibility tricks players have and the second is to tone down the instarape abilities that monsters have been given since Voidwatch Ep.1.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-09-06 11:12:42
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From Slycer over on BG:

Quote:
Slycer;5385077 said:
Translation... it's Matsui time!

---

Hey, it's Matsui.

Thank you for all of the quick feedback.

There have been a lot of concerns that due to reductions in Embrava and Perfect Defense, some content will no longer be beatable after the adjustment. Therefore, it's not only that we're scheduling to adjust those abilities, but we're also scheduling to adjust content once we take into consideration the impact these changes will have.

I think that in all existing and future content, competing with notorious monsters that can only be defeated by using Embrava and/or Perfect Defense is never a favorable condition. We will take corrective action so this does not happen, but the first planned adjustment is to Embrava and Perfect Defense.

Another premise of these changes is that summoners and scholars will be able to play with a wider variety of their abilities as a result. I am aware that this will inconvenience some people, but I think you can understand the need for these changes.

Next, here's some more information with regards to separating the recast timers. Since the two SP abilities could be used in combination with separate timers, the original assumption that the effects cannot be used at the same time is no longer valid, and some of the balance will be thrown off. After carrying out a review of the effects, we will re-adjust this as necessary.

Also, another issue is that we still have not corrected the limited number of recast timers in the present framework of the game. To solve this problem, the framework expansion has been ongoing, and this change must be implemented before the separation of SP ability recast timers can be introduced. This has been another factor leading to the delay.

In addition, once this change is completed, we will take a look at other abilities that have been tied to the same recast timers because of the maximum limit so that we can improve them, such as Soul Jump, Spirit Jump and Steal/Despoil.


Matsui is going to save this game
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 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2012-09-06 11:13:11
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Does anyone have a rough timeline on when this would change?

I looked on the roadmap and it said in June of this year it would be changing, clearly they've pushed back the 2 hour udpate.
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By Valefor.Kiaru 2012-09-06 11:15:39
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OMG SO EXCITED!

I wonder what it's like to be tanaka. Ruin two video games all by yourself, and require a new director to fix them..
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-09-06 11:27:44
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I feel some legion mobs will _need_ to be adjusted if they nerf PD alone, never mind embrava. Off the top of my head -

Mired Hydra/Alfard, both immune to stun and nerve gas spam.
Lofty Elasmoth, stun immune again, curse spikes, meteor etc
Soaring Strigoi, complete ***wipe NM, builds stun resist, big aoe damage, charmga, doom etc
Soaring Corse/Kumatatok, both spam charm, almost unstunnable is very fast.
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-09-06 11:30:51
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pretty sure hydra/alfard are both easilly stunable. We've done both behes w/o PD, although normally not w/o 1 DD getting unlucky and dieing.

Im would be annoying as *** w/o PD though. Although, I don't think anyone really farms it for anything other than trophys anymore.
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By Guin 2012-09-06 11:31:32
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
From Slycer over on BG:
Quote:
Slycer;5385077 said:
Translation... it's Matsui time! --- Hey, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of the quick feedback. There have been a lot of concerns that due to reductions in Embrava and Perfect Defense, some content will no longer be beatable after the adjustment. Therefore, it's not only that we're scheduling to adjust those abilities, but we're also scheduling to adjust content once we take into consideration the impact these changes will have. I think that in all existing and future content, competing with notorious monsters that can only be defeated by using Embrava and/or Perfect Defense is never a favorable condition. We will take corrective action so this does not happen, but the first planned adjustment is to Embrava and Perfect Defense. Another premise of these changes is that summoners and scholars will be able to play with a wider variety of their abilities as a result. I am aware that this will inconvenience some people, but I think you can understand the need for these changes. Next, here's some more information with regards to separating the recast timers. Since the two SP abilities could be used in combination with separate timers, the original assumption that the effects cannot be used at the same time is no longer valid, and some of the balance will be thrown off. After carrying out a review of the effects, we will re-adjust this as necessary. Also, another issue is that we still have not corrected the limited number of recast timers in the present framework of the game. To solve this problem, the framework expansion has been ongoing, and this change must be implemented before the separation of SP ability recast timers can be introduced. This has been another factor leading to the delay. In addition, once this change is completed, we will take a look at other abilities that have been tied to the same recast timers because of the maximum limit so that we can improve them, such as Soul Jump, Spirit Jump and Steal/Despoil.
Matsui is going to save this game
WOW! Could we have a producer that actually understands the game?!
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-06 11:31:42
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So basically the nerf will happen, notes will be taken on how this affects strategies on the playerside and then content will be adjusted? That means a window where certain things will be nigh-impossible.

Should the changes not come first THEN the PD/Brava nerf? That way there is a window where the content is made easier but also subject to alternative strategies that can be compared to the one trick pony that is PD/Brava.
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-09-06 11:35:36
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Odin.Sawtelle said: »
pretty sure hydra/alfard are both easilly stunable. We've done both behes w/o PD, although normally not w/o 1 DD getting unlucky and dieing.

Im would be annoying as *** w/o PD though. Although, I don't think anyone really farms it for anything other than trophys anymore.


Both Hydras are immune to stun and Shock Squall.
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-09-06 11:36:25
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The strats wont be come impossible. If we assume that they are going to litterally make both abilities trash, you'll just rep a sch w/ a brd and a smn w/ an extra whm and suddenly everything but maybe rex(and even that I think is possible) is doable again completely ignoring embrava and PD. And I personally doubt that embrava or pd will be made entirely useless.
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By Aikawa 2012-09-06 11:45:43
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Siren.Kalilla said: »
Sylph.Wardeniii said: »
Leviathan.Syagin said: »
I must say I love the change.

How can anyone love this change? (Assuming you are talking about the PD/Embrava nerf) Especially when we don't even know what it is yet?

I can only think of two reasons why people would enjoy this change:
A) They are butthurt because they aren't capable of/don't have a group to take advantage of utilizing Embrava/PD.
B) They want the game to revert to some alternate playstyle that makes their favorite job relevant again.

And if you say "they're overpowered abilities and make the game unenjoyable", I certainly agree to an extent -- but so do all of the absurd TP moves mobs are currently being equipped with.
I feel that they introduced these abilities so they could give enemies the ability to utterly destroy any team without it. As much as I feel the enemy should have the advantage at all times all the way up until it's defeat, I do not agree with mass instant kill abilities. This is why I have wanted PD changed from the beginning, it allowed players to go up against crazy powerful enemies and walk away unscratched, and I don't find that to be very enjoyable. If I wanted to dominate an enemy I could walk outside San d'Oria and go on a murderous rampage against bunnies and orcs, but I want some real tactical challenge against the enemies I gear up to face against.

True, fixing PD and Embrava will not make the game a tactical challenge, because it never was to begin with really except for rare cases. However I feel that the producer really wants to change the game for the better here. He has been keeping in touch with the community quite often collecting the feedback of players personally, then coming back with results. He doesn't tell players it's not possible, he is getting something done without hesitation. Whether these changes are going to be for the better we won't quiet know for a few months, but atm I still have high hopes for these changes that are coming to the game very rapidly.
Since when you needed a "real strat" in FF to beat any boss? and with real strat I dont mean, Kitting...

Sadly in this game you can't use stats like WoW bosses to say something, here you dont know when a NM will do something powerful, and even if you know you got nothing to do besides pop fanatics/fools and that's not a real strat, for a SMN it takes what, 10 secs to pop PD? can you imagine in WoW something like that, Boss start reading Wipe move!, SMN hurry go in, astal flow, SMN cast Alexander... Alexander thing... wait.. oh PD... wipe.. In WoW all classes got defensive CDs to survive any "deadly" move in FF... only Paladin have something that could save the party and the recast is too long compared with the frecuency NMs use those kind of move. so you need a full party of PLD and make those JA affect alliance to have reals strats...

The only "real" strat in FF that I can think about... SC and Magic Burst... but oh that dont work in alliance, coz it is used in the first place to not feed TP to the NM...

Sadly but there is nothing they can do to "Fix" FFXI...
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By Lakshmi.Inspectorgadget 2012-09-06 11:48:10
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They can nerf PD and Embrava all they want as long as they nerf NNI and Legion more.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-06 11:54:38
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..except they've shown that proper battles can be created within the bounds of the game before. The new spam spam spam, pew pew pew, you died is a result of trying to throw together content fast.

HNM that utilize adds that must be killed, strong -DT% barriers, proper cues that super attacks are coming (Yilbegans smoke, HP%, chatspam), shifting immunities (a la Pil), multiple phase battles, raid style content, dmg absorb mechanics and entry barriers to content have all been done before.

Zergs can be stopped, it's been done before.
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-09-06 11:54:47
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Bahamut.Kujah said: »
Odin.Sawtelle said: »
pretty sure hydra/alfard are both easilly stunable. We've done both behes w/o PD, although normally not w/o 1 DD getting unlucky and dieing.

Im would be annoying as *** w/o PD though. Although, I don't think anyone really farms it for anything other than trophys anymore.


Both Hydras are immune to stun and Shock Squall.


I didn't make it to wave 2 to get a SS of stunning that one but I know I have before.
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By Odin.Creaucent 2012-09-06 11:55:18
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Get back WoW if you hate FF so much thats the problem solved.
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By Sylph.Wardeniii 2012-09-06 11:55:26
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Those are good points on Kalilla/Sparthos's part.

Just so long as mob TP usage and effects are balanced to be in line with the countermeasures we have available without resorting to third party means, then some fresh fight-styles would be more than welcome.
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-09-06 12:00:15
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Odin.Sawtelle said: »
Bahamut.Kujah said: »
Odin.Sawtelle said: »
pretty sure hydra/alfard are both easilly stunable. We've done both behes w/o PD, although normally not w/o 1 DD getting unlucky and dieing.

Im would be annoying as *** w/o PD though. Although, I don't think anyone really farms it for anything other than trophys anymore.


Both Hydras are immune to stun and Shock Squall.


I didn't make it to wave 2 to get a SS of stunning that one but I know I have before.

Seriously never seen that, weve cleared Ki god knows how many times, with capped skill smns and never seen a Squall land :<
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-09-06 12:08:50
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No idea what to tell you. Even before I finished my thunder acc staff I don't remember having issues with anything in Ki.
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