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Most Efficient Cleave?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 281
By Shiva.Shaidalyn 2012-08-31 14:39:03
Really stuck on where to debate this so I figured "General" makes more sense than clogging up Blu AND War with a similar post.
I have both Blu and War to 99 with capped/near capped skills. Lately I've been unable to do much due to poor connection but I'll be home in a few weeks and would love to hash out a few hundred merits while also farming for KI's to get my Almace underway.
When I did my friend's Kannagi, we did Sobek in 1 sitting. All 50 pops. *shudder* I would go, grab Raptors on Blu and AoE until we had all pops. Then I'd change to Thf and we'd kill Minax for his then Sobek. Then I'd leave and repeat this.
For meriting I would go to a Djinn camp and wreak havoc there. Bringing a Whm along makes Cleaving a LOT more fun lol.
But I notice... I ALWAYS see Wars doing the cleaves, not Blu. Is War better for some reason?
I'm not "amazingly geared" on either job due to my lack of new content experience but I am adequate I'd think.
War is 5/5 +2 with Dies Irae (or Widowmaker) and some PDT stuff (though with the new PDT set maybe I should upgrade? Was using Grim Cuirass, Ruffian ?Boots?, Mollusca Mantle, Jelly Ring/Wiglen Gorget, Bird ?Gloves? though I have Hermes' now as well.
Blu has +2 body/legs/feet I think, +1head/hands? Been a while. Same PDT gear for pull, full CW set. Usually I do an AoE Flash, Sleepga, Buff/Debuff, CW/Whirl and all dead.
Never tried War before but, again, it's ALL I see. Wondering if I'm doinitwrong or something. Anything to make soloing two Empy weaps less horrible would be so appreciated :3
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-08-31 14:50:18
You see Wars more because its easier to get a war ready to cleave ie: RMTs dont want to learn blu spells.
You aren't doing it wrong at all since you aren't cleaving for xp, just keep doing what your doing on BLU.
[+]
Lakshmi.Alryc
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 237
By Lakshmi.Alryc 2012-08-31 14:55:03
^^^ pretty much that. WAR is just easier to do but imo, BLU is better at it. One shot everything vs using Fell Cleave again and again til all dead.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Shaidalyn 2012-08-31 14:57:51
Thanks :D I enjoy Blu more anyhow. It's nice to play my fav job for once ._.
Two weeks and I can gear it again :D
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2012-08-31 15:02:02
Cata War will have a much higher yield of KIs per pull especially if you do lights correctly. BLU does pulls quicker (also look into frisky sabots if you havn't)
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-08-31 15:16:59
Well, WAR is measurably better, and here is why. You only get XP for 8 mobs if they all die at once, no matter how many you kill. For a BLU, you almost always kill them all at the same time, minus one or two that resist. When cleaving, each mob takes different damage, meaning the pull doesn't all die at once, so you will get more XP out of a cleave pull than a whisker pull.
Edit: This is for EXP, KI yeah either cata, or find mobs that dont give red
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-31 15:21:50
1) XP isn't always relevant, especially now.
2) There are ways for a BLU to work around that. You don't have to one shot them, and you have a variety of other AoEs at your disposal.
The ability to cleave for KI on any monster without inflating your azure is WAR's biggest draw really.
[+]
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-08-31 15:27:46
He mentioned meriting, so I put in my 2 cents about it. And can BLU do it that way? Sure but I promise WAR would be faster. The more spells you have to spam to drag out he kills is more chance to get interrupted, the slower things go. The more a WAR gets hit the faster he gets TP the faster you kill the pull.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 89
By Shiva.Karichan 2012-08-31 15:28:02
When a friend and I did my Kannagi and his Almace, what we did:
Me on NIN + Dual Box WHM
Him on BLU
Grab Guku every time he pops, assuming we lack his KI
Have him kill Bugards/Lizards so the lot pool would be full of pops, and any gold chests with KIs won't be too far away for me to run over to
While he cleaves, I get KI for anything we're missing
Usually we also had him dual boxing a THF, but honestly, the BLU could set TH and you'd be fine. [If they can get TH2 from trait + sash or trait + atma, you're good.]
Briareus was a bit of a different story, took a lot longer because the NMs are so spread out. =/ He cleaved frogs while I did NMs, and I usually couldn't run over for KIs.
And honestly, if you want merits, it will take you much longer to finish your Almace. IMO, get merits in a generic XP party instead.
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-08-31 15:55:22
He mentioned meriting, so I put in my 2 cents about it. And can BLU do it that way? Sure but I promise WAR would be faster. The more spells you have to spam to drag out he kills is more chance to get interrupted, the slower things go. The more a WAR gets hit the faster he gets TP the faster you kill the pull.
This is actually way off. Blu is still far superior in exp rate.
1)Staggering kills accurately on blu is much easier
2)Blu pulls quicker via frisky sabots
3)Blu has easier access to pdt gear, enhancing magic gear, and cocoon which make it more easily able to handle itself solo on most mob types.
Quick note on staggering kills on blu, because not many seem to understand the concept:
pull 8 CA whirl>
pull 8 efflux whirl>
pull 8>
go to camp>
Whirl (8dead)>
Thermal Pulse(8 dead)>
Charged Whisker (8dead) is my usual routine.
One really nice added bonus is because you don't have to gear thermal/CW for full out damage you can ride 112% spell interrupt rate which allows you to not waste time with dream flower.
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-08-31 16:03:19
I fail to see how
pull 8 CA whirl>
pull 8 efflux whirl>
pull 8>
go to camp>
Whirl (8dead)>
Thermal Pulse(8 dead)>
Charged Whisker (8dead) is my usual routine. is easier than Pull mobs > spam cleave > get EXP/Boxes. You an pull the whole camp instead of counting 8 at a time. Also, unless your really going slow you should be ready to pull the next batch of mobs before the respawn. And since mobs can't equip frisky sabots, so you are still waiting for them to get to camp once you do start pulling. I will give you that BLU is more capable of AoE farming solo though. All you need is a WHM a RDM or a SCH and WAR can do just dandy though, not like you need an army to keep the WAR up and running.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2012-08-31 16:08:01
meh just pull the whole cap ca/efflux whirl and thunderbolt all mobs stunned and around 10% then any offensive spell to finish mobs if exp is what you are after if not just find a mob that doesnt azure and cleave them after you get azure where you want it
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-08-31 16:09:23
Obviously it is easier to do on war, but that doesn't make it more efficient. Pulls are still quicker on my blu, I have timed both extensively. It is also very rare that a war gets exp on every mob in any pull with more than 15 mobs (to up the chances of this you would need to decrease your fell cleave damage), where blu can accurately place when each kill occurs assuring exp on every mob.
Edit: Also if you can't rationalize why running at flee speed quickens pulls significantly think I'm done here :(
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-08-31 16:10:42
meh just pull the whole cap ca/efflux whirl and thunderbolt all mobs stunned and around 10% then any offensive spell to finish mobs if exp is what you are after if not just find a mob that doesnt azure and cleave them after you get azure where you want it
Adding you to the list of people who doesn't understand if you kill 20 monsters at the same time you only get exp for 8 of them.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 89
By Shiva.Karichan 2012-08-31 16:12:49
I fail to see how
pull 8 CA whirl>
pull 8 efflux whirl>
pull 8>
go to camp>
Whirl (8dead)>
Thermal Pulse(8 dead)>
Charged Whisker (8dead) is my usual routine. is easier than Pull mobs > spam cleave > get EXP/Boxes. You an pull the whole camp instead of counting 8 at a time. Also, unless your really going slow you should be ready to pull the next batch of mobs before the respawn. And since mobs can't equip frisky sabots, so you are still waiting for them to get to camp once you do start pulling. I will give you that BLU is more capable of AoE farming solo though. All you need is a WHM a RDM or a SCH and WAR can do just dandy though, not like you need an army to keep the WAR up and running.
Unless your damage is really varying, or you wait to kill a bunch with retaliation, you will kill the entire group of mobs at once, and only get exp for a few of them.
Either way, BLU and WAR cleave about the same speed from what I've seen. BLU is a lot safer solo though.
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-08-31 16:13:54
Meh I will just call it different stroke for different folks cuz stopping to go pull 8 more several times in one pull seems like a massive pain in the ***.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 281
By Shiva.Shaidalyn 2012-08-31 16:17:04
Huge thanks for all the replies. Didn't mean to start chaos~
I figured I'd look for both. I managed to get my 2box Whm -fully- merited in everything I cared about at the time doing Sobek with just Blu killing everything.
Boxes give enough exp and cruor to not care so much about 9+mobs giving nothing.
Mostly was wondering if War was simply better somehow. I see for -exp- it is. Just gotta find the balance of "what do I sub for where am I going". With Blu it's obviously Rdm sub and cast long spell while running through Djinn areas :P
With my pocket Whm, I keep AoE capped stoneskin (+2 SS items, earring and pants) and I use Aquaveil so I rarely have struggles. Plus a Cure VI Cureskin usually makes it irrelevant at camp anyhow :D
Thanks for advices~ I'll likely stick to Blu for the KI farming since I don't suck too bad at it. War I'll try for some exp sometime though^^
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Karichan 2012-08-31 16:19:01
Meh I will just call it different stroke for different folks cuz stopping to go pull 8 more several times in one pull seems like a massive pain in the ***.
You don't stop, you just weaken every 8 mobs so that they die 8 at a time instead of all at once.
If you kill 20 mobs at once, you still only get exp for 8, which is a large waste of 12 mobs. This is only worthwhile if you're looking for CHESTS and not exp/cruor.
Though one group that cleaves on Shiva will do the Djinn in Vunkerl, pulling 8/9 at a time on WAR.
Bismarck.Zagen
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Zagen 2012-08-31 16:20:44
meh just pull the whole cap ca/efflux whirl and thunderbolt all mobs stunned and around 10% then any offensive spell to finish mobs if exp is what you are after if not just find a mob that doesnt azure and cleave them after you get azure where you want it
Adding you to the list of people who doesn't understand if you kill 20 monsters at the same time you only get exp for 8 of them. You only get EXP from 8 but you'd almost always get a chest from each mob which adds up to much more EXP/Cruor over time, unless you're building amber light too at which point you wouldn't care about EXP limits.
The best EXP I've found is to pull half the camp each pull so that there is nonstop pulls, though this requires a puller to do.
Feel free to add me to your list for all I care, when I ran whisker burns we were pushing 300-350k exp/hr which isn't even a dream for today's cleave parties at least not on my server.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2012-08-31 16:25:10
meh just pull the whole cap ca/efflux whirl and thunderbolt all mobs stunned and around 10% then any offensive spell to finish mobs if exp is what you are after if not just find a mob that doesnt azure and cleave them after you get azure where you want it
Adding you to the list of people who doesn't understand if you kill 20 monsters at the same time you only get exp for 8 of them.
how does weakening all mobs to about 10% and then killing small groups off with spells while they are stunned not get me exp from all of them?
By Aikawa 2012-08-31 16:55:52
Blu > War in KI farming you can do probably 2 pulls by the time the war cleave the first pull.
War > Blu in Exp
Simple.. Blu Mass kill in 1 spell(I normally do 8k+ CW, my healer mule is SCH/RDM, so thunderstorm, obi and twilight cape, both +thunder damage, and ultimate = overkill), War can get locked out and not be able to FC.
In canyon, depending how many ppl you have, you can pull, both Cats, ***, and scorpions, Farming KIs I had a nin, thf, mnk friend pulling those And I got the other group of cats,
the Healear sleepga their mobs.
The only problem was to check chest before they depopped... Killing near 100 mobs every 3~ mins, even like this, those KIs sucks.. I hate that zone.
I did Tripleboxed my Kannagi and Armageddon, Sobek/CC, I just CW the detectors,since they are easy and fast to pull, sometimes had 1 or 2 friends leeching exp (mostly chest exp, and NMs kill guess they get 3k per kill) so they did hold KIs, Got the 50 skins/lamps in 3 days, killing them w/ embrava every time was really fun
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-08-31 17:08:04
Decent DD single targeting with a SCH doing embrava beats both. AOEing causes a complete downtime while waiting on repops, 1 min repops allow for essentially unlimited mobs while single targeting and a good DD should be killing in 10-12 seconds with embrava. Depending on the camp, cleave pull takes around 3 min + 1 for repop for ~20 mobs. 20/4 = 5 mobs/min = 1 mob/12 sec. The advantage isn't very noticable for DD+SCH, but if you have a second DD it becomes much more pronounced. Just a reminder to keep your options open~
By Aikawa 2012-08-31 18:21:36
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Decent DD single targeting with a SCH doing embrava beats both. AOEing causes a complete downtime while waiting on repops, 1 min repops allow for essentially unlimited mobs while single targeting and a good DD should be killing in 10-12 seconds with embrava. Depending on the camp, cleave pull takes around 3 min + 1 for repop for ~20 mobs. 20/4 = 5 mobs/min = 1 mob/12 sec. The advantage isn't very noticable for DD+SCH, but if you have a second DD it becomes much more pronounced. Just a reminder to keep your options open~
True, but You need the sch to check chest that won't be that fast, the time it takes you to check the chest is the same as killing a mob probably, so dual/triple/x-boxing dont apply here, second is, red lights, for some ppl it matter, so need to kill mobs that don't give red lights, and are free of FC RMT
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-08-31 18:22:03
Well if we are specifically talking KI farming it all depends on what you can easily farm and what lights they give. If there is nothing in the zone you can easily AoE farm that does not give azure then you are gonna be looking at a lot of blue chests you don't want with BLU, same to be said w/ red and WAR. One thing Shaid, I am 99% sure that items that enhance stoneskin only apply to the person w/ the gear equipped, so I think AoEing it onto your main you aren't getting that specific bonus. If you want to get crazy get azure capped on your mule, amber capped on your main, pearl capped on both.. kill until you need TEs, have your mage get some kills to get TE back up, then go back and you will be getting nothing but gold boxes as long as you find mobs that won't ruin your light. Here is a good place to try and figure out what you can farm in any given area.
Off topic: If you have a dualbox that already has magey stuff, I -highly- recommend leveling his SCH. AoE Phalanx/beefy regens, and enspells are pretty nice. THF and SCH/RDM is a reall powerful combo for a lot of things. Dynamis is great, 29 damage enspells onto of my dagger damage I can farm the DCs pretty easily.
Bahamut.Bojack
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By Bahamut.Bojack 2012-08-31 18:58:57
meh just pull the whole cap ca/efflux whirl and thunderbolt all mobs stunned and around 10% then any offensive spell to finish mobs if exp is what you are after if not just find a mob that doesnt azure and cleave them after you get azure where you want it
Adding you to the list of people who doesn't understand if you kill 20 monsters at the same time you only get exp for 8 of them.
I thought someone said in one of the threads on here recently that you still get exp/cruor for all of them, it just gets truncated and only shows 8 maximum? Dunno how true it was.
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2012-08-31 19:00:31
You don't stop, you just weaken every 8 mobs so that they die 8 at a time instead of all at once.
If you kill 20 mobs at once, you still only get exp for 8, which is a large waste of 12 mobs. This is only worthwhile if you're looking for CHESTS and not exp/cruor.
I'm pretty sure they fixed this a while ago o_O;; but I have no idea. Gonna go kill 10 > 15 > 20 mobs and count exp after each when I get back from afk.
Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2012-08-31 19:15:30
You guys are acting like you absolutely must one-shot everything on BLU, like there is no possible way to randomize damage so you don't kill them all at once. Whirl of rage damage is just as random, if not more random than fell cleave thus, WoR > Whisker > WoR > AoE(whatever you want to finish the rest off) works just fine... It's not rocket science. BLU is a better cleaver period.
Cata War will have a much higher yield of KIs per pull especially if you do lights correctly. BLU does pulls quicker (also look into frisky sabots if you havn't)
Nope. Once you have enough azure (or none at all depending on how much you want) you simply call for help on the current target, thus keeping your amber @255 and azure at 0-XXX. Killing the mobs with cata doesn't magically cause more amber chests to appear.
Well if we are specifically talking KI farming it all depends on what you can easily farm and what lights they give. If there is nothing in the zone you can easily AoE farm that does not give azure then you are gonna be looking at a lot of blue chests you don't want with BLU, same to be said w/ red and WAR. One thing Shaid, I am 99% sure that items that enhance stoneskin only apply to the person w/ the gear equipped, so I think AoEing it onto your main you aren't getting that specific bonus. If you want to get crazy get azure capped on your mule, amber capped on your main, pearl capped on both.. kill until you need TEs, have your mage get some kills to get TE back up, then go back and you will be getting nothing but gold boxes as long as you find mobs that won't ruin your light. Here is a good place to try and figure out what you can farm in any given area.
Off topic: If you have a dualbox that already has magey stuff, I -highly- recommend leveling his SCH. AoE Phalanx/beefy regens, and enspells are pretty nice. THF and SCH/RDM is a reall powerful combo for a lot of things. Dynamis is great, 29 damage enspells onto of my dagger damage I can farm the DCs pretty easily.
Read above.
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2012-08-31 20:16:10
Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said: »I'm pretty sure they fixed this a while ago o_O;; but I have no idea. Gonna go kill 10 > 15 > 20 mobs and count exp after each when I get back from afk.
Quoting this as reference lol. I'm not crazy in thinking they had an update where they specifically talked about the truncation of exp am I?
Needless to say, I went and tested this.
I didnt do 10 > 15 > 20 like I said. Just pulled every Capaudy that was up/I didnt deaggro.
First pull I think was 17. I got limit points for 8, ranging between 36 > 43 in increments of 1. Total lp for this pull was 316. Went from 1 tnl to 4 merits, to 9685 tnl 5, for a total of 316 lp.
Second pull, I switched to exp mode. I pulled 15+, and again only got exp for 8, ranging from 44 > 51 equalling 380 exp. Started the pull with 4815 TNL, ended with 4435 TNL ( 4815-4435 = 380 ).
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Conclusion, yes there is a cap of 8 if you kill every single one at the same time. I have no idea how BLU cleave works in that aspect, but I'm pretty sure the BLU I joined up with for STR dagger trials killed the entire horde in 2 spells I thought (WoR -> CW, which would result in whole wave dying, save ~4 mobs at most). Also forgot, but we pulled every Raven/Colibri in Misareaux since it was bird family.
Fell Cleave is almost never like that, killing large amount at once usually, then smaller amounts after. I want to say the worse off you're geared, the better chance you'll get more exp per pull lol?
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-08-31 20:26:19
Pretty sure the OP didnt even care about gaining xp he just wants KIs....and I saw something about BLU can have their spells interrupted..ha...ha...ha..That never happened to me in abyssea.
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By Ragnarok.Erikthecleric 2012-08-31 20:31:40
Quote: and would love to hash out a few hundred merits while also farming for KI's to get my Almace underway.
Look's kinda like both lol. Either job will do, but if you want to do both @ same time, I'd think WAR would be better overall. It also gives you the chance to proc the NMs for KI if you cleave near the NM itself. I am biased tho because I am a WAR w/out BLU though lol.
Really stuck on where to debate this so I figured "General" makes more sense than clogging up Blu AND War with a similar post.
I have both Blu and War to 99 with capped/near capped skills. Lately I've been unable to do much due to poor connection but I'll be home in a few weeks and would love to hash out a few hundred merits while also farming for KI's to get my Almace underway.
When I did my friend's Kannagi, we did Sobek in 1 sitting. All 50 pops. *shudder* I would go, grab Raptors on Blu and AoE until we had all pops. Then I'd change to Thf and we'd kill Minax for his then Sobek. Then I'd leave and repeat this.
For meriting I would go to a Djinn camp and wreak havoc there. Bringing a Whm along makes Cleaving a LOT more fun lol.
But I notice... I ALWAYS see Wars doing the cleaves, not Blu. Is War better for some reason?
I'm not "amazingly geared" on either job due to my lack of new content experience but I am adequate I'd think.
War is 5/5 +2 with Dies Irae (or Widowmaker) and some PDT stuff (though with the new PDT set maybe I should upgrade? Was using Grim Cuirass, Ruffian ?Boots?, Mollusca Mantle, Jelly Ring/Wiglen Gorget, Bird ?Gloves? though I have Hermes' now as well.
Blu has +2 body/legs/feet I think, +1head/hands? Been a while. Same PDT gear for pull, full CW set. Usually I do an AoE Flash, Sleepga, Buff/Debuff, CW/Whirl and all dead.
Never tried War before but, again, it's ALL I see. Wondering if I'm doinitwrong or something. Anything to make soloing two Empy weaps less horrible would be so appreciated :3
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