PS2 Users

So if i read correctly... 300mhz > 3ghz for ffxi?

My argument is that if they are dropping PS2 support, it is an indicator that they are willing and intending on taking this step.

It's more about the memory limits.

Think about it like installing a 32-bit program on a 64-bit system. You have all that extra RAM but the 32-bit program just has no idea what to do with it all.

For some reason i read everything you post as Archer is saying it

THIS IS HOW WE GET ANTS!

the ps2's emotion engine cannot be compared directly to a pc's cpu, they're different architectures.

kinda like why the pc version requires like 800mhz+

and regardless of the hardware, if the game isn't coded to take advantage of the hardware, it's meaningless, and in some cases the newer hardware is a hindrance, because it's not programmed to handle it properly.


I'd say that's a very silly argument, and really has no premise as they aren't dropping PS2 support.

IF they are dropping PS2 support, they have to have a reason.

You don't just drop a platform for no reason.

From what I understand, the limitations are coded into the game itself, so removing PS2 from the situation doesn't actually change anything.

they aren't though.


you understand correctly sir.

My assumption is that if they drop PS2 support, they will do a general overhaul.

This whole thread doesn't even matter. The point that everyone's trying to prove is that " ZOMG they are dropping ps2 we can finally update". The truth is they wouldn't update anything because JP>NA/EU. Thats how it always has been and how it always will be. Since the JP Version has the PS2 on the spoiler trailer there will be no updates for the game that will exceed the PS2 abilities.

Even if they drop support for PS2 in the states... if they don't drop in in Japan as well there will still be no changes...

but that's assuming they drop it, and that would be the only reason to drop it, and since they won't do an overhaul, there's no reason to drop it, none, zero, ziltch, nada. (etc)

I wish they would just let us have better graphics on the PC end, but that would require them making HQ skins for PC.

That's a bad way to think about it. The game is actually being emulated and i suspect that they're trying to ditch the emulation and move on to actually being able to push the boundaries. FFXI is SE's work horse and they won't let it be beaten to death without a fight. Emulation can take up extra processing power yes, but very little depending on WHAT you are running.

The big issue with the game is that everything is copy pasted so you don't have issues with the cpu (you can have the cpu process animations or have the gpu depending on which is stronger at the time... which cpu was stronger back in 2000 and had the chipset code for it) so provoke looks like sneak attack. If SE decides to change this then a Pentium II processor will eventually meet it's demise.

This change seems to make me wonder what exactly they're doing here and why. If they're ditching the ps2 then they'll allow more memory to be used for storing higher quality textures, more gpu power for animations (lol joking!), and more cpu used for either rendering (depending on which is stronger since i use my cpu 44core over my gpu for rendering personally) or animations. We can't say exactly what'll happen due to us not knowing exactly what SE did although knowing game hardware from the last decade can tell us quite about about their practices... For all we know they increased the space so we're able to PLAY with people with new gear, new jobs, and new abilities.

Since they're only increasing HDD partition i suspect it'll be just for the ability to play with those who have the content.

tbh (unless it would cause framerate issues) they can do this already... the only reason I can think of as to why they don't is it would cost a good bit of $ (and server space) to maintain multiple sets of graphics, but isn't there some 3rd party group that kinda does this sort of thing anyway?

(and of course it would require a stronger computer than the min specs, but who aside from me has a computer that ancient somewhere?) (and no I don't use it still :P )

considering they doubled the space we already have, I doubt it. As for the P2, a P2 wasn't strong enough to run XI, needed a P3.

UI overhaul is PC only, so I figured the same could apply to graphics.

hopefully, but I wonder how they do with the aspect of the game's label on that, hmm. (the one about min specs etc).

I personally won't be using the new UI as I detest the point/click play in other games anyway.

Guess it's time for a bit o' education on how things work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPGPU
-If SE ditches ps2, then they'll gain the ability to not have everyone in the same looking gear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX
-Another great use for some of the higher end cpus. I don't think they'll add phy bodies and rag dolls, but i would hope they would consider some changes.. but then ff14 would cry inside. As an animator i know some of the older generation engines would bog down if you had a ton of animations or textures that were pretty badass or oever a few seconds (consider a 512x512 or 1024x1024 on a PS2 gpu D: they'll never do HQ all over but good thing we can .dat edit!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_memory
-Pretty broad. Memory can be used for TONS of things. It's hard to say what a team would use it for, but i DO know i'd get bitched at for going over certain polys (although that's not a big issue these days :D) on some projects but if they had more than hauberks and stuff for newer content i forsee this as an issue.. How much ram did ps2 have again? (i only have 4gigs on my normal pc)

We don't know much about what their plans are, but until they give us any hints as to what they're thinking, it's hard to make out the picture. For all we know they're just being vague.

It's amazing what you can run if you strip down quite a bit and stick to terrible LoD models. This is the case with ps2 vs pc settings.

Especially Since We Know SE Loves To Be As Vague As Possible

OK, run vanilla, without stripping :P

(my friend claims he used to run EQ on this 450mhz amd he gave me once, I'll take his word for it, and XI takes about the same specs if you can get a graphics card that will support TnL (although I think both needed it...).

So I imagine a P2 could pull it off, but I wouldn't want to :P

That's assuming they would code the ability to take advantage of the hardware, and we've already discussed that. Not to mention that there's ways for the current version, with the ps2 that they could have different graphics and they don't take advantage of it.

The PS2 has very limited ram, but it's very fast ram for it's time, about the equivilant of the pc3200 ddr PC ram, in 2000, that was fast as hell.

You can imagine, but the ps2 is running on low poly LoDs and don't get me started on the overlay. Different teams use different tricks to get things going (especially 3D artists who's jobs it is to fake everything to save on processing/resources) so it's not easy to say 'well that guy did this on X system' especially since p3 era cpus had gpu-like *can't think of the word* instructions set in them which then led to the cpu/gpu rendering possibilities (i'm sure we've all seen cpu and gpu render options in later games).

It's not at all easy to explain, but SE is making a move in a strange direction but the truth of the matter is that they won't abandon their jp base. The other truth is a pc which could run you about $200 these days can play ffxi with a decent video card (1gb for $100 maybe?) and do so much more. I can understand that some may not be able to afford to do so which sucks to say, but in the end they have a dying horse and our sticks are drawn, so you must imagine their response.

wasn't even talking about the ps2 in that statement about the pentium 2 and 3, so I don't know what you're on about.

and again, regardless of what people's ignorant opinions are, dropping ps2 support would do just about nothing without them overhauling the code, as for what I was talking about with the things they could do now: it's merely about pulling different files on the PC, something that could be easily done.

The fastest ram of the time was rambus which is pretty ok (and proprietary!) and it's still pretty quick and taking advantage of hardware also means using very low poly LOD models, N.Q. textures, and strangely construed maps (they seem to have used a modeling program for maps as opposed to a map builder or .map judging by the lines in the levels) and iirc DDR2 was around in the last portion of the last generation so i'm gonna say they used something 'cheap', meaning expensive and old, but got the job done.

Secondly the engine they're using is pretty much set in stone barring the few adjustments they can make which seem to be timer and damage related. There are some things from the E.Q. era which were standardized and never looked back upon. You can make a poison script and copy/paste it as bio I~XI and it'll still be poison so it's easy to fool unsuspecting players, and i say that to say this: Code that is hard coded can't be changed and we don't know anything but FPS is hard coded but if you consider the fact that some JA share the same timer.. who knows. They hide quite a bit about their dinosaur tech made back in 2000)

As for the ram part...ps2 uses ye' olde' ram made back when we were still using Socket A and pc32000 is in a league of it's own in comparison. I suggest you do not post about hardware until you learn about it. Not being mean, but never compare Pintos to Porches.

I'm gonna go camp some stuff on the AH but i will leave and ask that we look at what's being done and compare it to what we know about current technology, game development trends, and any new information. This is turning to be another 'day before Subtle Blow' thread and i can't explain the tricks of the trade when someone is tossing around words like 'easily' when game development has only RECENTLY become easy and still every few even attempt it not alone succeed.


edit: different file systems work at different rates... some store data better than others and idk what ps2 uses (but i bet it's proprietary!) so who KNOWS how big each file is compared to the pc

I stated that the ram the ps2 uses is about comparible to pc3200(in bandwidth wise), and yes it is rambus (specifically direct rambus), this statement isn't false.

I suggest ye not get ahead of yourself and insult people when you misread.