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PS2 users
Carbuncle.Norym
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Carbuncle.Norym 2012-06-23 01:52:32
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »As for the PS2 haters: seriously the bandwagon PS2 hating is so outdated and misguided it's not funny, do some research instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
Seriously, do some research and learn that a 300MHZ processor is just as powerful as a 3.2GHz processor! I mean, 6GFLOPS is really close to 280~GFLOPS in terms of raw computational power :)
Orrrrrrrrrr the simple fact that dropping the weakest link and fixing the architecture does, in fact, lead to a better time.
I certainly wont argue the point made here, but I'm pretty sure he was refering to the massive spread of misinformation like the post above yours, and not actually defending the use of the PS2.
People keep pretending they know everything about how the console works and how the HDD is set up.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 01:53:19
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »As for the PS2 haters: seriously the bandwagon PS2 hating is so outdated and misguided it's not funny, do some research instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
Seriously, do some research and learn that a 300MHZ processor is just as powerful as a 3.2GHz processor! I mean, 6GFLOPS is really close to 280~GFLOPS in terms of raw computational power :)
Orrrrrrrrrr the simple fact that dropping the weakest link and fixing the architecture does, in fact, lead to a better time.
considering the game is coded and runs better on the ps2 than even a 3ghz cpu, yeah...
Wouldn't call it the weakest link, also wouldn't ever get the idea that they'd recompile the code, if they were to do that, then by all means drop console support as a whole, but they aren't.
So again, do research.
By Castoth 2012-06-23 01:54:37
Why would Square bother to *finally* double the HDD partition for the PS2 if they never planned on using it? I'm guessing it will be a direct download on a PS2 instead of having the option to use a disc for installation, as most of the older 'fat' models have had their CD drives die years ago as is. If PS2 is still an option for JP users, the hardware is still limited regardless by PS2 limitations and all.
Just saying, for those celebrating the death of old hardware, I'm guessing you'll be disappointed in the end.
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-06-23 01:56:13
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »As for the PS2 haters: seriously the bandwagon PS2 hating is so outdated and misguided it's not funny, do some research instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
Seriously, do some research and learn that a 300MHZ processor is just as powerful as a 3.2GHz processor! I mean, 6GFLOPS is really close to 280~GFLOPS in terms of raw computational power :)
Orrrrrrrrrr the simple fact that dropping the weakest link and fixing the architecture does, in fact, lead to a better time.
considering the game is coded and runs better on the ps2 than even a 3ghz cpu, yeah...
Wouldn't call it the weakest link, also wouldn't ever get the idea that they'd recompile the code, if they were to do that, then by all means drop console support as a whole, but they aren't.
So again, do research.
If they drop the PS2 it is seriously indicative of two things:
- "Oh ***, we are losing too much money and need to suck up to the FFXI players again to keep us afloat"
- "Oh man, they want a better product. It's time we drop the PS2 and cut our losses. They're addicted enough to change for us."
If they drop the PS2, then a recompile isn't an option: it's literally part of dropping PS2. You don't build/compile for something you don't support.
I don't need to even draw from my software and system engineering classes for this, Jet: it's common sense. :|
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By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 01:56:34
Why would Square bother to *finally* double the HDD partition for the PS2 if they never planned on using it? I'm guessing it will be a direct download on a PS2 instead of having the option to use a disc for installation, as most of the older 'fat' models have had their DVD drives die years ago as is. If PS2 is still an option for JP users, the hardware is still limited regardless by PS2 limitations and all.
Just saying, for those celebrating the death of old hardware, I'm guessing you'll be disappointed in the end.
ftfy, and that's a rather easy fix if you know how to work a screwdriver and a multimeter (but they'll wear out the rest of the way and require the lense to be replaced, but they're rather cheap).
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 01:59:49
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »As for the PS2 haters: seriously the bandwagon PS2 hating is so outdated and misguided it's not funny, do some research instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
Seriously, do some research and learn that a 300MHZ processor is just as powerful as a 3.2GHz processor! I mean, 6GFLOPS is really close to 280~GFLOPS in terms of raw computational power :)
Orrrrrrrrrr the simple fact that dropping the weakest link and fixing the architecture does, in fact, lead to a better time.
considering the game is coded and runs better on the ps2 than even a 3ghz cpu, yeah...
Wouldn't call it the weakest link, also wouldn't ever get the idea that they'd recompile the code, if they were to do that, then by all means drop console support as a whole, but they aren't.
So again, do research.
If they drop the PS2 it is seriously indicative of two things:
- "Oh ***, we are losing too much money and need to suck up to the FFXI players again to keep us afloat"
- "Oh man, they want a better product. It's time we drop the PS2 and cut our losses. They're addicted enough to change for us."
If they drop the PS2, then a recompile isn't an option: it's literally part of dropping PS2. You don't build/compile for something you don't support.
I don't need to even draw from my software and system engineering classes for this, Jet: it's common sense. :|
They aren't losing money because of the ps2 support, in fact one of their largest customer based is still largely ps2 players: Japan.
As for your "common sense" it doesn't make any sense at all, they won't have to do anything if they just stop putting out updates for the ps2, but the only way it would make sense is for them to do an overhaul on their code, which they won't really do anyway.
So I don't really know what the *** you're talking about, unless you inferred something that I didn't.
As for your system engineering classes: they're apparently lacking somewhat if you can't see the flaw in your earlier argument.
Quetzalcoatl.Gencay
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Quetzalcoatl.Gencay 2012-06-23 02:00:54
You guys need to move away from PS2 anyway. Seriously. Glad and hope they stop support for it. The game can finally make those much needed changes. PS2 has been doing nothing but holding the game back.
Btw they arnt completely outcasting PS2 Players it looks like. Just wont be able to access the new expansion features. Ps2 wont even get the option to download the data ,considering the HDD can't hold anything else without exploding. So PS2 players can still play, but if you want to someday be able to enjoy the content, then jump in your time machine and move into 2012 with the rest of us.
Why does everyone just keep saying the same things over and over again. Who the hell cares what people prefer to play on. It would be easier if everyone just faced the music and realized PS2 will never be dropped from FFXI. The partition required for FFXI was just increased to 19GB or so in this last update so it will have no problem with the extra data. It's unlikely that they bother with the cost of producing CDs for PS2 discs when they can just have it up for download. I wouldn't be surprised if it was downloadable for PC/360 as well.
i hope what you say is true :/
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-06-23 02:06:18
They aren't losing money because of the ps2 support, in fact one of their largest customer based is still largely ps2 players: Japan.
As for your "common sense" it doesn't make any sense at all, they won't have to do anything if they just stop putting out updates for the ps2, but the only way it would make sense is for them to do an overhaul on their code, which they won't really do anyway.
So I don't really know what the *** you're talking about, unless you inferred something that I didn't.
As for your system engineering classes: they're apparently lacking somewhat if you can't see the flaw in your earlier argument.
You keep denying that the PS2 creates a very large number of constraints that created a sub-par system-as-is.
This is, simply put, an unbelievable thing to deny. The PS2 has the weakest hardware. The PS2 is the system that hit its maximum ability first. The PS2 defines the system constraints due to being the weakest link.
As such, if the PS2 is being cut, that means SE feels that the prospect of holding onto the PC and/or XBox market will net out more money than holding onto PS2. The PS2 users can migrate, but the PC users and XBox users cannot make up for the constraints of the PS2.
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By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:11:33
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »They aren't losing money because of the ps2 support, in fact one of their largest customer based is still largely ps2 players: Japan.
As for your "common sense" it doesn't make any sense at all, they won't have to do anything if they just stop putting out updates for the ps2, but the only way it would make sense is for them to do an overhaul on their code, which they won't really do anyway.
So I don't really know what the *** you're talking about, unless you inferred something that I didn't.
As for your system engineering classes: they're apparently lacking somewhat if you can't see the flaw in your earlier argument.
You keep denying that the PS2 creates a very large number of constraints that created a sub-par system-as-is.
This is, simply put, an unbelievable thing to deny. The PS2 has the weakest hardware. The PS2 is the system that hit its maximum ability first. The PS2 defines the system constraints due to being the weakest link.
As such, if the PS2 is being cut, that means SE feels that the prospect of holding onto the PC and/or XBox market will net out more money than holding onto PS2. The PS2 users can migrate, but the PC users and XBox users cannot make up for the constraints of the PS2.
Because it doesn't, the issue is with the code, not the system.
There's no point in dropping the system if it's to not fix the code, they don't automatically go hand in hand, it would cost way too much to fix the code at this stage, there isn't enough benefits of it anyway to justify it.
About the only real issue is the framerate and the lack of auto translate libraries, which the former is more set by the pace of the game, but would be a nice tweak, and the latter is pretty much negligible.
By lilsanchez 2012-06-23 02:20:59
The Ps2 lacks performance heavily. Unless they decide to start making complete hardware changes, it will always be just that. Ps2 is nearly 12-13 years old. There is only so much it can do now. Face the grips of reality. This game could have been so much more then it is now if it wasn't for limitations. There is a reason this discussion keeps being brought up. If you want to rage at anyone, take your anger out on the outdated machinery.
@Bojack
Idc what people play on... And it has nothing to do with CD Production. Hell most peoples PS2s cant even read CDs anymore
@Jetackuu
What has the console been holding the game back on?
299MHz CPU...
32MB DRAM...
197MHz Graphics...
4MB Video memory...
I'm not pulling these numbers out of no where. Don't get me wrong. I love PS2. I still Re-play a lot of PS2 games. Persona 4 ect. I'm sorry, but there is only so much those specs can do... Why are you so angry? That the only console you're able to play on? (Just curious)
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By Naut 2012-06-23 02:24:19
The new expansion isnt even available for the ps2 lol take a close look at the new trailer at the end xbox 360 and windows only
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2,912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-06-23 02:25:13
It's been said many times before. The game was designed on PS2. Dropping PS2 isn't a magical fix since the coding would all need to be updated.
If they dropped PS2 AND actually took the time to recode the game (a lot more work then you would think), nothing is going to change.
By lilsanchez 2012-06-23 02:26:19
The new expansion isnt even available for the ps2 lol take a close look at the new trailer at the end xbox 360 and windows only
It's supposedly being released on JP PS2 consoles. Look at the bottom of the jp website.
http://www.playonline.com/ff11/adoulin/index.html
Ragnarok.Bungiefan
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Ragnarok.Bungiefan 2012-06-23 02:26:41
Since they are releasing JP PS2 discs, Mariane and I can probably find a way to plug those installed files into an NA PS2 install, and provide the expansion. It already worked to manually add the last Abyssea expansion when that caused the patcher program to say it was out of space on the hard drive. On PC it works without having to run each expansion installer.
If I can get a JP install disc when the expansion comes out, I'll take a crack at it and post a torrent in the updates thread on BlueGartr if I can make it work.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:29:04
The reason the discussion keeps being brought up is because people are ignorant of the true problems and are misdirected, pretty much by SE themselves.
I have a stack of ps2's and they can all read cd's and dvd's just fine.
Just by posting those specs as you just did means you really know nothing of the PS2's hardware, and how you can't compare it to a regular PC's specs.
The hardware isn't holding the game back, the fact that the game was coded for that hardware is what is holding the game back, and they won't recode the game.
I'm not angry, but if I were it would be because of ignorant posts like yours and several others here.
Let me spell it out for you yet again, just to make it clear:
Final Fantasy XI was programmed from the ground up for the Playstation 2, even if they "dropped PS2 support" they will not change this code to fix the issues that are attributed to "PS2 Limitations."
The issues are embedded in every aspect of the game, but nothing will change that fact, unless you can somehow get SE to spend a lot of money to pretty much completely remake the game, because that's what it would take, and I mean a lot of money.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:30:30
It's been said many times before. The game was designed on PS2. Dropping PS2 isn't a magical fix since the coding would all need to be updated.
If they dropped PS2 AND actually took the time to recode the game (a lot more work then you would think), nothing is going to change. qft
Phoenix.Baelorn
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 857
By Phoenix.Baelorn 2012-06-23 02:32:47
Why are you so angry? That the only console you're able to play on? (Just curious)
Probably because the specs are meaningless and this has been explained many times already.
The game is coded to perform at those specifications. Even if they dropped PS2 support tomorrow those PS2 limitations would still be hard-coded into the game.
It would require a complete rewrite of the game to take real advantage of better hardware and thinking that will happen is borderline delusional.
By lilsanchez 2012-06-23 02:33:30
The reason the discussion keeps being brought up is because people are ignorant of the true problems and are misdirected, pretty much by SE themselves.
I have a stack of ps2's and they can all read cd's and dvd's just fine.
Just by posting those specs as you just did means you really know nothing of the PS2's hardware, and how you can't compare it to a regular PC's specs.
The hardware isn't holding the game back, the fact that the game was coded for that hardware is what is holding the game back, and they won't recode the game.
I'm not angry, but if I were it would be because of ignorant posts like yours and several others here.
Let me spell it out for you yet again, just to make it clear:
Final Fantasy XI was programmed from the ground up for the Playstation 2, even if they "dropped PS2 support" they will not change this code to fix the issues that are attributed to "PS2 Limitations."
The issues are embedded in every aspect of the game, but nothing will change that fact, unless you can somehow get SE to spend a lot of money to pretty much completely remake the game, because that's what it would take, and I mean a lot of money. Utter denial. That system is old. Just like there is only so much even today's machines can do too. Ps2's bar is set even lower. You need to realize this.
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By lilsanchez 2012-06-23 02:34:04
Why are you so angry? That the only console you're able to play on? (Just curious)
Probably because the specs are meaningless and this has been explained many times already.
The game is coded to perform at those specifications. Even if they dropped PS2 support tomorrow those PS2 limitations would still be hard-coded into the game.
It would require a complete rewrite of the game to take real advantage of better hardware and thinking that will happen is borderline delusional. Specs are not meaningless... Wow you guys are so dense. lol I give up. You continue to live in the confined spaces of the past. Idc. Was just trying to help you face reality. Failed
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:34:59
The reason the discussion keeps being brought up is because people are ignorant of the true problems and are misdirected, pretty much by SE themselves.
I have a stack of ps2's and they can all read cd's and dvd's just fine.
Just by posting those specs as you just did means you really know nothing of the PS2's hardware, and how you can't compare it to a regular PC's specs.
The hardware isn't holding the game back, the fact that the game was coded for that hardware is what is holding the game back, and they won't recode the game.
I'm not angry, but if I were it would be because of ignorant posts like yours and several others here.
Let me spell it out for you yet again, just to make it clear:
Final Fantasy XI was programmed from the ground up for the Playstation 2, even if they "dropped PS2 support" they will not change this code to fix the issues that are attributed to "PS2 Limitations."
The issues are embedded in every aspect of the game, but nothing will change that fact, unless you can somehow get SE to spend a lot of money to pretty much completely remake the game, because that's what it would take, and I mean a lot of money. Utter denial. That system is old. Just like there is only so much even today's machines can do too. Ps2's bar is set even lower. You need to realize this.
I realize this more than you could ever know, but you don't seem to grasp the concept that it's not a matter of hardware specifications, go do research, and come back when you know what you're talking about.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:35:21
Why are you so angry? That the only console you're able to play on? (Just curious)
Probably because the specs are meaningless and this has been explained many times already.
The game is coded to perform at those specifications. Even if they dropped PS2 support tomorrow those PS2 limitations would still be hard-coded into the game.
It would require a complete rewrite of the game to take real advantage of better hardware and thinking that will happen is borderline delusional. Specs are not meaningless... Wow you guys are so dense. lol
In this case, they are. again, research.
Phoenix.Baelorn
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 857
By Phoenix.Baelorn 2012-06-23 02:35:59
Specs are not meaningless... Wow you guys are so dense. lol
Mother of god. How are you not getting this?
By lilsanchez 2012-06-23 02:39:50
Specs are not meaningless... Wow you guys are so dense. lol
Mother of god. How are you not getting this? Like I said. I give up. People are obviously stuck in the past. I shouldn't have to be the one that needs to tell you that a machine can only perform as good as the hardware inside of it. Common sense seems to be absent.
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-06-23 02:41:23
You realize that just because you create a product at a certain level doesn't mean you should keep it at that level, right?
You all realize that, right?
The goal is to keep getting better <_<;
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18,466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-23 02:42:25
PS2
You can't really use the fact that it's not on the NA website as proof PS2 won't be supported if it's still says it's supported on the JP page.. I don't think there's anything to get too exited about... that being said... I still support the use of PS2!
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:42:38
Specs are not meaningless... Wow you guys are so dense. lol
Mother of god. How are you not getting this? Like I said. I give up. People are obviously stuck in the past. I shouldn't have to be the one that needs to tell you that a machine can only perform as good as the hardware inside of it. Common sense seems to be absent.
You seem to fail to realize that a machine can only perform as well as the software that's running it, regardless of the hardware that's in it.
Understanding of how a computer works seems to be absent.
If software X is designed to run on hardware X and is run on hardware Y regardless of whether or not hardware Y > X, it will suffer performance/compatibility issues on hardware Y.
/facepalm
Phoenix.Baelorn
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 857
By Phoenix.Baelorn 2012-06-23 02:42:49
I'm trying to figure out if you're being purposely obtuse.
No one is arguing that the PS2 is not outdated.
What we are saying is that even if SE dropped support for it they'd have to recode the entire game to take advantage of better hardware.
That's not going to happen.
PS: I play on PC.
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Phoenix.Baelorn
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 857
By Phoenix.Baelorn 2012-06-23 02:45:22
You seem to fail to realize that a machine can only perform as well as the software that's running it, regardless of the hardware that's in it.
Understanding of how a computer works seems to be absent.
If software X is designed to run on hardware X and is run on hardware Y regardless of whether or not hardware Y > X, it will suffer performance/compatibility issues on hardware Y.
/facepalm
How a gamer doesn't get this I will never know. It's like saying your multi-threaded processor and bridged GPUs will totally revolutionize the performance of Pong.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:45:36
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »You realize that just because you create a product at a certain level doesn't mean you should keep it at that level, right?
You all realize that, right?
The goal is to keep getting better <_<;
Yes, but we also realize that SE isn't going to invest the time/money to actually make the product better in a way that would require dropping PS2 support, why the rest of you don't understand that is beyond logic.
PS2
You can't really use the fact that it's not on the NA website as proof PS2 won't be supported if it's still says it's supported on the JP page.. I don't think there's anything to get too exited about... that being said... I still support the use of PS2!
Indeed, and the only reason that it's probably not on the site is the fact that they ended production of the PS2 discs, Japan has had a longer life for the PS2 than the US anyway (on both sides).
Not to mention that they increased the size of the partition, the expansion is coming, we knew this for months.
By Jetackuu 2012-06-23 02:46:44
You seem to fail to realize that a machine can only perform as well as the software that's running it, regardless of the hardware that's in it.
Understanding of how a computer works seems to be absent.
If software X is designed to run on hardware X and is run on hardware Y regardless of whether or not hardware Y > X, it will suffer performance/compatibility issues on hardware Y.
/facepalm
How a gamer doesn't get this I will never know. It's like saying your multi-threaded processor and bridged GPUs will totally revolutionize the performance of Pong.
I could explain this to my grandmother easier.
I haven't noticed any uproar over this but has anyone noticed that on the teaser site that PS2 isn't listed as a supported system?
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/adoulin/index.html
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