Empy V. Relic Dilemma

Hello.

First I want to apologize for possibly putting this in the wrong thread, the topic spans a variety of classes, so I wasn't sure whether to put this into one specific job or the other.

Here's what's going down. I took a 2 year break and came back in January (wow the game has changed a lot). I got a Twashtar, in which I'm pretty disappointed. I have a variety of jobs that I play. I solo dynamis every day, because I've been building currency to make a Spharai.

However I've come to discover that Spharai isn't as good as Verethragna and now I'm at a bit of a loss as to what relic I should build.

If I narrow down to what my "main" jobs are (or the jobs I'd like to pimp out someday), I come up with
WHM
MNK/SAM
THF/DNC
DRG/BST (sorta; I like them both as much)
NIN (very bottom of the list lol)

I have other jobs leveled but don't play them as seriously as those listed above. I've done a bit poking around on the BG forums and here, but most of what I've found is outdated. I decided against a Mandau because it would be nice to be able to bring an empy/relic job to VW.

So I shall open this up to all of you intelligent folks, help me decide which relic I should build and which Empy weapons to go for. Just for discussion's sake, any Empys I build I'd probably only be able to get to level 90, and any relic I'd build would probably only make it to level 95.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and suggestions!

youre disappointed in twashtar?? doinitwrong

but anyways.. spharai is a defensive weapon, verenthragna is an offensive, take your pick.

Very likely, I'm always open to suggestions to improve my playing haha

with thf stack as much dex and sneak attack dmg as you can for rudra, and dnc you stack dex and af3+2 head, paired with climactic flourish, you should be getting some very respectable numbers. dont bother using rudra unless youre stacking it with forced crit JA's

Right, that's what I've been doing. I guess I was disappointed with always having to wait a minute to be able to use Rudra's on thf, and with DNC I was waiting to 300% tp and using Climactic flourish that way (but having to wait 1:30 for Climactic flourish again). I got like 5k once in Abyssea and tend to get around 2-3k outside abyssea. I knew about having to force the crit, so that's what I was aiming for. Thanks for reaffirming that. :)

With respect to a new weapon, since I'd like to build offensive things I guess that settles for mnk I'm going to try to build a Verethragna. So that leaves other jobs left for a relic, which narrows it down to Amano or Gungir (or Guttler hahaha). I know the polearm empy isn't very good (at least that's what I've been told by someone who has one), so that leaves the Amano; but I've heard now that Masamune is better than Amano. Thoughts?

Off topic: Maynard is a god!

I have no idea about DRG, but I heard it's empy was fantastic. Idk, though.

If you're looking for a relic, since Shoha seems to be the way to go (vs Fudo) Amano might be an idea.

Not even sure if this is 2 cents worth, though. :) Good luck.

On Topic: (These are only my opinions, others may disagree)

BST -> STR or DA axes and merit ruinator.
DRG -> Occ. attacks twice polearm and merit stardiver.
NIN -> Kannagi is an awsome weapon, game changer for NIN

SAM -> Masa or Amano, not sure which is the better weapon, but you'll want to merit and use Tachi:Shoha probably, I.E. you wont be making the weapon for Fudo or Kaiten, you'll only use those to trigger aftermaths.

Ohhh really? I was told the direct opposite about the empy polearm by someone who has one. Hm, I'll have to do some more poking around. I was getting ready to build the "occasionally attacks twice" polearm, then discovered my relic debacle so that opened up the possibility of Gungir to me.

Thank you. :)

Thanks for your insights. :D I just finished Ruinator, and recently finished the PDT axes; I for sure can stand to do a new axes, so I shall check that one out.

I already have Shijin Spiral, Tachi:Shoha and now Ruinator to max, so I won't be able to do Stardiver. I do have Drakesbane, would the OaT polearm still be good for that?

Yeah, we just finished a Kannagi for a nin in our LS and he's super happy with it. Just wanted to consider the Kikoku before I decided for sure to go for a Kannagi someday. Thank you for your input. :)

Empy polearm is decent, the 99 version probably beats OAT just due to the strength of ODD and having like 60 more base damage. Relic and Empy at 99 are pretty similar for DRG(but empy probably pulls ahead due to Camlann>Geirskogul)

I see. Well, any empys I get would likely only get to 90 (if I'm lucky) and relics to 95 (again if I'm lucky) so, which would be better at empy90 or relic95?

I believe most likely the OP will stick to 85 or max 90 versions so IMO I'd probably still go for OAT due to ease of getting it, and the following logic in my head: Seems like MNK or SAM would be called upon for higher def/level enemies where the Empy or Relic poles would shine, leaving OA2 pole to devastate fodder mobs with its insane TP gains.

Don't kid yourself tho the OAT+stardiver will fall short on stuff like higher tier VWs or such. (100dmg to Kalasutrex and stuff). I found even up to ADL-ish things however it still puts out some nice numbers. I'm not saying *the best* or anything, just anecdotal evidence from what I've seen going up against other LS mates with Ukkos and stuffs.

Edit: Maybe the OP could give some situations they would use each of their main jobs in?

Make a 100 tp-bonus GK and cap tachi:shoha merits. That should kill enough time to pick what really interests you.

Looking at your jobs it seems like twashtar (which you already have) services you the best. You could always invest the dynamis earnings into better equiping the non-main slot of all of those jobs.

OP already has kanto on their ah.com profile.

That aside...I'd like to add a little to what ashman said. From purely a weapon standpoint, verethranga would likely be your most 'useful' option considering WHM (aside from melee) doesn't benefit anywhere near as much from its relic/emps as a melee, and ur other top 3 tier mains all have a top-end weapon. I say veret > spharai because for endgame at the minute, the effect of counter is seriously weakened due to the amount of AoEs most NMs like to spam, thats just my opinion tho.

Saying that. If you've been disappointed with twashtar, you're doing something very wrong. In your position, my first priority would be to use the dynamis earnings into perfecting your thf and dnc gears to make better use of the emp you already have.

In my opinion if you find you're disappointed with Twashtar you're either gearing wrong or -- and this is a distinct possibility -- you're actually just disappointed with the jobs that use it.

Thief has never quite "fit in." It's a job that would almost universally be left at home if you didn't need TH. It certainly has its uses and can do quite respectable damage. But it's never going to be a pure highest-numbers winner.

As for dancer, it has always been a utility job that, again, is going to sacrifice the numbers of heavier DD for the sake of its potentially huge other benefits.

If you're looking for raw damage, stick with the monk/warrior/samurai/dragoon/dark knight angle. Or even ranger.

Then again, when it comes down to relic, I've always been a fan of making a relic for the job(s) you love; not making a relic that does big numbers and loving the job for those big numbers, which is more frequently the case in FFXI.

Don't do empy polearm. Camlann may be better than Geirskogul.. but ask any Gungnir DRG if they EVER use Geirskogul aside from shits and giggles. The idea is you're using the highest base DMG polearm with the highest damaging weaponskills, Stardiver & Drakesbane.

At 99, Rhongomiant catches up with Gungnir on base DMG, but the weapon stats and effects on Gungnir are better. ACC, Defense Down, and Occassional 2.5x damage (without needing Aftermath) are simply better than VIT+20 and ODD on Aftermath. The fact that a Gungnir DRG will just spam the higher damage WSes while you have to gimp yourself with using Torment will have the Gungnir DRG pull away every time.

Even the commonly accepted 'best polearm', Ryunohige, takes some effort and optimized situations to eke out a measurable advantage over Gungnir. Gungnir is a no-brainer for a DRG. Rhongomiant is a no-go.

But Rhongomiant looks so much nicer than Gungnir. =\

this x100

Go with the Gungnir, it's an amazing weapon dispite all the bull you commonly hear people saying. Yes Geirskoul sucks and you won't really use it for much of anything, but it does make darkness with Stardiver for some beatiful numbers. The amazing thing also is that you don't really need /sam anymore also, so you can still do a jump for 100+ tp and still get the skillchain off. With Voidwatch also being the big event for most people now, the rate at which Drg can get tp and through out a weaponskill is insane and it only gets better with the duration of Berserk and Warcry for higher spike numbers. But most of all, go for the relic for the job that you enjoyed playing before you got the relic for it XD.

back to this, as dnc and proper usage of your JA's you should be able to use 2 rudra every other climactic flourish. 3 if you are using /sam (including a self darkness with +30ish% SC damage). outside of abyssea 2-3k dmg is good stuff for a dagger, ive reached up to 4.5k on a DC fodder, pairing the fact that you can do multiple with 1 climactic.. i cant really see why youre disappointed with your twashtar.

also, tp bonus fusetto +2 gives you a large amount of extra damage for 100tp spammage, around a 30% increase each

The one thing about Gugnir that always blew my mind was the aftermath, what the *** were they thinking.

Solo drg/whm w/ healing breath. Woooohooo. Shock them Easy Prey/Decent Challenge mobs!


Seriously, though. Dragoon solo'ing is fun, but in the grand scheme of things? This was the great idea for dragoon's "ultimate weapon"? Oi.

Thats always funny to read.
Veret will win with Spharai for some events and lose for many others.
Veret advantage over Spharai is similar to that of Masamune over Amano. It will win when you can force AM3 all the time with wings. Whenever you are uncapped on attack and you dont have access to 300TP wings and can only maintain AM1, Spharai will win. Whenever you cant maintain AM1 all the time Spharai will win. Whenever you will be able to maintain AM1 with capped attack but you will solo kill (which means tanking) Spharai will win or will be equal.

Spharai is great offensive weapon that ADDITIONALLY serve some defensive bonus.

There is no dilemma, relic>emp

Troll >>>> that way

It always seems to me that in events where you cannot maintain 300TP AM relics will easily triumph over empyreans. Though that is only in the department of pure damage.

And if one makes a relic/mythic just for that - they're a fool who willingly subscribes to helplessness and disappointment. The new toy will quickly lose its luster due to factors far beyond your control.

So many thoughtful insights, thank you everyone!

I think Ramyrez from Bismark was accurate in that I'm sorta disappointed with the jobs themselves, not so much the Twashtar. In reexamining my expectations, I'm not sure what I was expecting when I obtained the Twashtar; certainly 6k damage would be kind of unrealistic hahaha My LS leader has an Ukonvasara so he's always pounding out like 6-8k damage, I guess I'm just sort of jelly. QQ

So we've established I should try to work on Verethanga, I think I will. But the question remains which relic to do? I'm sitting on 14 Montionts, 20 100 bynes and 43 L. jadeshells, and those numbers will only increase as I make a point to enter Dynamis every day.

If I choose based purely on which job I love the most, it would be mnk or sam, as I've been playing a lot of Sam recently and mnk has always been one of my favorite jobs. That would leave me to do the Oa2 polearm and the str axe for bst (or... Guttler? haha).

It was asked to which events I'd be bringing these jobs; just standard stuff, Empy farm events and VW mostly, as I totally have a crush on VW right now.

Thank you again everyone for your thoughts. :)

Make a Spharai if for only the exclusive purpose of low-manning and punching Paladins in the mouth.

Since it is a job you love, you will enjoy it regardless of what is the flavor of the month.

personally i'd pick spharai over veren, not only because chloris pops blow, but because shijin spiral and the reduced crit rate of v.smite has closed some of the advantage verenthragna had, also another 5 levels of spharai that youre willing to do, giving you a higher proc rate for x3 dmg making the DoT for spharai higher. DoT was always a larger part of damage for mnk than WS damage.