http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Naboot
Had a discussion with a couple of friends about the multi-hit magian weapons a couple of days ago, and I need more input. Which of the multi-hit weapons are best? Occasionally attacks 2-3 times or Double attack +10?
I couldn't find any data about the process rate of the occ. attacks weapons. Does anyone own any of them and know approximately how often it activates?
Thanks for your input. ^^
Which Is Better In Multi-hit Magian Weapons?
Which is better in multi-hit magian weapons?
I'm curious about this myself... been seeing a bunch of people with OAT weapons off hand w/ empy's lately. Is the thinking that OAT's help build TP quick for WS's, and do more DOT than the STR magian trials?
also... wow, that was alot of acronym's, I've been playing this game too long
also... wow, that was alot of acronym's, I've been playing this game too long
I can't speak for blue mage and its sword options/needs, but aside from that I think most of the one-hander OATs (OA2, OA2-4, and DA all included here) are worthless due to actually either slowing down TP gain due to their high delay regardless of extra attacks, or lowering white and WS damage compared to losing stat boosts/better DPS from other weapons.
Of the two-handers, OAT polearm and great sword keep up pretty well with other endgame options.
I think the "ideal" for whm offhand will always be Kraken Club for solo'ing, though? I don't know, I've never really been pro-DD whm, but if you're going to do it, relic/mythic/empy + Kraken I think is the standard.
Edit: like three edits to clarify. Damned acronym insanity.
Of the two-handers, OAT polearm and great sword keep up pretty well with other endgame options.
I think the "ideal" for whm offhand will always be Kraken Club for solo'ing, though? I don't know, I've never really been pro-DD whm, but if you're going to do it, relic/mythic/empy + Kraken I think is the standard.
Edit: like three edits to clarify. Damned acronym insanity.
Yeah I always wondered this too... Originally I was making a set of H2H for Footwork, but I don't know if that's relevant any more... I was going to use them for /dnc too but now I'm just thinking about using the Brawny ones.... I know this was about clubs, but if anyone has or knows about the H2H, feel free to share!
I know that the general consensus is that the 2-4 weapons are ***due to horrible activation rate, DA is good if you already have another source of DA but OAT is pretty good.
i made a DA+10 sword for my blu but i also have other trial swords like str dex vit etc
mortontony1 said: »
DA is good if you already have another source of DA
Shiva.Galbir said: »
mortontony1 said: »
DA is good if you already have another source of DA
Haha, no man. Of course Double Attack is better with more Double Attack.
1 Double attack + 1 Double Attack = 2 Double Attack. 2 > 1.
The phrase you were looking for is diminishing returns. At higher levels of Double Attack is does less for you than at lower levels. For example 1 DA to 5 DA > 15 to 20 DA. Actually I'm not sure when the diminishing returns kick in, but that's about how it works.
Lakshmi.Jesi said: »
Shiva.Galbir said: »
mortontony1 said: »
DA is good if you already have another source of DA
Haha, no man. Of course Double Attack is better with more Double Attack.
1 Double attack + 1 Double Attack = 2 Double Attack. 2 > 1.
The phrase you were looking for is diminishing returns. At higher levels of Double Attack is does less for you than at lower levels. For example 1 DA to 5 DA > 15 to 20 DA. Actually I'm not sure when the diminishing returns kick in, but that's about how it works.
Shiva.Galbir said: »
Da is worse with more Da.
If you don't understand diminishing returns please do not call me wrong and laugh me off.
Diminishing returns, though, isn't the same thing as "worse."
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Diminishing returns, though, isn't the same thing as "worse."
Edit: I'm not saying it's bad but saying that the Da path is better with more Da is false. The Da path is worse with more Da.
Actually since i'm always asking people for proof it's only right that I provide proof when called wrong so here goes.
Player A 0% current Da.
A chooses to make a 10% da sword so he's adding 10% to 0% Da.
The increase would be 110/100 or an increase or 1.1/ 10%.
Player B 10% current Da.
B chooses to also make a 10% da sword so he's also adding 10% to 10% da
The increase would be 120/110 or an increase or 1.090909.... / 9.0909%
This makes my first statement of:
True since Mort was saying Da weps are better when you have more Da. This is false they are in fact worse weps with the more base da you have.
Please prove me wrong with math not by laughing at me and saying I'm wrong.
Player A 0% current Da.
A chooses to make a 10% da sword so he's adding 10% to 0% Da.
The increase would be 110/100 or an increase or 1.1/ 10%.
Player B 10% current Da.
B chooses to also make a 10% da sword so he's also adding 10% to 10% da
The increase would be 120/110 or an increase or 1.090909.... / 9.0909%
This makes my first statement of:
Quote:
Opposite Da is worse with more Da.
True since Mort was saying Da weps are better when you have more Da. This is false they are in fact worse weps with the more base da you have.
Please prove me wrong with math not by laughing at me and saying I'm wrong.
I think the reason you're having trouble relaying your message is because of the way you're phrasing it. Ulterior DA devalues the weapon in question, not the act of DAing.
What are we talking about here? That, at 99, a DA weapon is worse than another weapon? Or, that with everything else remaining the same, that 30% DA is worse than 20% DA?
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
That could be it too. I'll admit I phrased it poorly.
The first I thought the context of Mort saying that Da weps are better with more Da would convey my point without having to declare that that was what i was talking about. It sadly wasn't it seems.
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
What are we talking about here? That, at 99, a DA weapon is worse than another weapon? Or, that with everything else remaining the same, that 30% DA is worse than 20% DA?
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
What are we talking about here? That, at 99, a DA weapon is worse than another weapon? Or, that with everything else remaining the same, that 30% DA is worse than 20% DA?
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
At first, I thought you were saying the second, and I thought you were confusing that with stacking DA w/ OA weapons.
He's trying to say that when you already have innate DA, the benefits of an OAT weapon are diminished by virtue of competing activation rates.
[+]
Ok, I'm back to the land of understanding wtf is going on. :D Thanks guys.
Lakshmi.Jesi said: »
Shiva.Galbir said: »
mortontony1 said: »
DA is good if you already have another source of DA
Haha, no man. Of course Double Attack is better with more Double Attack.
1 Double attack + 1 Double Attack = 2 Double Attack. 2 > 1.
The phrase you were looking for is diminishing returns. At higher levels of Double Attack is does less for you than at lower levels. For example 1 DA to 5 DA > 15 to 20 DA. Actually I'm not sure when the diminishing returns kick in, but that's about how it works.
Also, back to my original post: Does anyone know what the activation rate is on the OAT weapons? Just saying that one is better than another isn't exactly helping.
Also, can Double Attack/Triple Attack activate on the OAT swings? Gleaning info from Kraken Club posts indicates yes, but I'm looking for proof.
Shiva.Harryxi said: »
Lakshmi.Jesi said: »
Shiva.Galbir said: »
mortontony1 said: »
DA is good if you already have another source of DA
Haha, no man. Of course Double Attack is better with more Double Attack.
1 Double attack + 1 Double Attack = 2 Double Attack. 2 > 1.
The phrase you were looking for is diminishing returns. At higher levels of Double Attack is does less for you than at lower levels. For example 1 DA to 5 DA > 15 to 20 DA. Actually I'm not sure when the diminishing returns kick in, but that's about how it works.
Also, back to my original post: Does anyone know what the activation rate is on the OAT weapons? Just saying that one is better than another isn't exactly helping.
Also, can Double Attack/Triple Attack activate on the OAT swings? Gleaning info from Kraken Club posts indicates yes, but I'm looking for proof.
OAT should be 40-50% activation, and no, OAX can't proc on QA/TA/DA swings. In fact, they get diminished since the proc chance is QA > TA > DA > OAX, so the more DA/TA gear you have, the worse off the OAX becomes,
Shiva.Harryxi said: »
I have been working on a spreadsheet that will pinpoint at what level of Double Attack or Triple Attack (and DA+TA together) start to have greater diminishing returns. IF I ever finish it, I'll throw it up on Google Docs and share it.
Adding any non-zero amount of DA or TA to a non-zero baseline will result in a smaller proportional increase in DPS than that same amount would have with a baseline of zero. There's no magic number to pinpoint, no need for a spreadsheet, just some first-year algebra and a little critical thinking. Are there any two positive values x for which (x+n)/x (where n is constant) will return the same result? 2/1, 3/2, 4/3, etc... The next iteration is always smaller than the previous one.
Kraken Club definitely can't proc on DA procs by the way. I'm unsure of the exact distribution for OA2-4 weapons but the effective hits/round value with 0 other sources of multiattack is ~2.0.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Kraken Club definitely can't proc on DA procs by the way. I'm unsure of the exact distribution for OA2-4 weapons but the effective hits/round value with 0 other sources of multiattack is ~2.0.
That's the "neat" version I've seen, don't remember if other possibilities were ruled out. There was a theory going around for a while that OAX was calculated in two stages: one for the chance of any sort of OAX and a second that determined the type. For instance, under this model you'd have a 60% OAX rate on mythics with a 67% and 33% chance to proc OA2 and OA3, respectively. The model was mostly interesting for the possibility of cleaning up some otherwise "ugly" distribution possibilities.
Well 60% OAX would be 50/33(34)/17(16) wouldn't it?
If OA4 aligns with 40/30/20/10, yeah.
The answer is that they're all ***. With the exception of two jobs (DRK and DRG using high damage OAT weapons), no one should be wearing these weapons ever. It's not only due to natural DA/TA/QA diminishing the value of the weapons.
[+]
Axe is effective for BST in Dynamis as well.
The OA2-4 weapons have a distribution of 40/30/20/10, with an average of 2 hits/round.
Source:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108408-Level-99-OA2-4-Distribution/page2
See Brytor's post #31
Source:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108408-Level-99-OA2-4-Distribution/page2
See Brytor's post #31
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