Random Question Thread (FFXI Related)

does anyone happen to know how often the server checks for TH gear? like if you have a set for a spell that gets interrupted, does the gear changing still count from say melee swings while the cast is happening?

afaik it applies on tag, so an action needs to be taken on the mob with the gear equipped for it to work/traits to kick in

yeah I'm just wondering how often the server checks, if you're meleeing while those casts with TH gear get interrupted that should work unless it's something super fast like flash right?

if you're meleeing and that swing happens while the gear is on then that'll apply, but if the TH-casted spell is interrupted then it didnt happen since the tag wasn't applied if im understanding you right

The server doesn't 'check', it maintains your current gear state. You can't melee during a cast interruption, so I guess the real question you're trying to ask is how quickly gearswap sends the new set after an interruption. In which case, the answer is that it sends it when you're notified of the interruption but it can take up to 400ms to leave the client and your ping travel time to reach the server.

So, if you swing between the time the cast is interrupted and the time your change arrives at the server, you'll get TH. That could be as low as ~.2s(100ms ping and good timing on packet interval) or as high as ~.8s(200ms ping and bad timing on packet interval) in normal circumstances. Better question is how quickly your melee round activates after the interrupt.. but I'm guessing you usually won't get it. Either way, it's probably not something you can determine with reliability because there are variable factors in the calculation.

I don't advocate for these kinds of builds publicly (Foenaria DRK is an exception), but in Taint's defense, it's probably used in Limbus climbs where you have 4500+ HP, the GEO is spamming curaga, you get healed on every new floor and you're probably never at risk of dying. You throw in Retaliation and you're a wrecking ball. I can imagine how "fun" that could be.

The build is disgusting, but funny, I was just looking at my WAR TripleAttack set in Notepad++ last night and it's exactly this here (Helheim), for the same purpose likely. I too responded with "gross" before logging off for the night.

Now as far as


Limbus climbs aren't "important enough" to spend gil on via Hoxne, but if you just want to push out more damage for the sake of it because it's "fun". Fun > Important.

It's less about needing a boost, and more about wanting something more for WAR to work on, that doesn't feel simply like a sidegrade, or at least has some sort of significant practical application.

The Limbus set gives two pieces that are very minor upgrades, almost side grade pieces, in its Legs and Head. There's a case to be made for making a 100% auto attacks crit rate build with it, but since you won't see significantly increased WS frequency, it's like a cherry on top rather than a whole nother cake.

Then, with regards to Hoxne, that's a big ticket item that 20/22 jobs get to go bananas over (SAM could get to go bananas over it too, if they fixed Zanhasso priority, but at least SAM gets the juicy Quad Attack set).

No telling how soon, how much, or how significant, but as they introduce new content, content that may not have the restrictions from Sheol that make WAR appear greater than it really is, the more the jobs I listed will just become the go-to choices. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you can already see WAR's "dominance" evaporate in content like Sortie and Limbus and Master Trials. Has anyone run 9-boss(or hell, even just Aminon) with WAR in a slot(with good results)? Does WAR have any real advantage over other stuff vs. the Mannequin NMs and CN HNMs?

I guess what I'm driving at, is that even pre-Limbus gear, other jobs aren't really that far behind WAR, and post-Limbus gear they're beyond it. They get to have their niche and progress to a real, new plateau. WAR has plateaued. And a huge part of its plateau, its entire itemization, is given now to everything else for a "small" price.

Without content that by design and restrictions favors it, it becomes sub-optimal. It's never gonna be bad, but there's something I feel I am failing to communicate about how bad it feels to be able to be so good in so much, but then never be able to go into the highest end content as more than a novelty. Or you know, how bad it feels to have the efficacy of WAR's SPs disappear under optimal buffs (Brazen Rush is already only +80atk with 30 seconds of getting to use slightly more Store TP/Empy set effect gear if you wanna tryhard) - (If you're already 9-lining WSes then Mighty Strikes is only impacting auto attacks(or only kept in good grace by things like WS wall) :/). Like heck, if you think about it, its regular JAs that enhance it are only useful in situations where other people's buffs don't already have you covered.

That leaves Savagery Warcry, Blood Rage, Tomahawk, and Retaliation as its stand outs. Retaliation doesn't work on boss autos that are considered WSes. Tomahawk's timer and single target nature keeps it quite limited. Blood Rage is still in its nerfed state, and is kind of just a gap filler JA. Savagery Warcry is amazing.

Can't cap your own delay reduction in Fencer build. Hasso from /sam also technically leaves you about 1% under cap for 2-handers. Dual Wield you can cap on your own with /nin or /dnc, but Dual Wield builds are mostly meme worthy for WAR. Meanwhile, DRK, SAM, DRG, NIN, DNC, MNK, PUP, THF, BLU, COR, and RNG can all cap the delay reduction of their primary methods of attack without things from outside themselves (most of them without subjobs even).

Maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but it just seems like WAR is being held back.

There's so much to unpack in your post, but I'll start here. You are being hyperbolic, respectfully. WAR is the most entry-level job, and likely the first one new players will use for dealing damage. If SE polled players, without a doubt it would be the most used job across all players. It retains it's high use throughout the entire game. There is never a scenario where you can argue that WAR does not "fit", unless it's something extremely specific like a Master Trial or a very specific strategy like Bumba or Aminon. The sheer versatility of the job IS it's superpower. And it has held onto that role since it started. I don't think WAR needs any kind of notable boost to it's role to make it stand above others. It's still always preferred just simply off reputation and popularity alone.


This is true, but SE has been doing this intentionally for a while now specifically with WAR. Ever notice how WAR is one of the only DDs that did not get a PDL neck or JSE +1/+2 earring? It also shares it's PDL gear on Sakpata, which incredibly boosts DRK, and the PDL it gets from Revelation doesn't push it much further ahead, or at all. I saw this a long time ago, and I knew it was deliberate by SE. They did the same thing to BLU during Omen era (I noticed every job got huge gear boosts and BLU got Regal Earring, lol). They also heavily promoted RUN on a lot of gear. It's like a soft nerf that allows other jobs the option to catch up. This is a pattern of SE if you kinda pay attention to it, so it's not a direct gripe vs WAR. Maybe SE sees WAR as already being very powerful and popular, so giving others tools allows them to be more flexible and chosen as a job vs the standard "Just get a WAR".


20 jobs? Hyperbolic. Many jobs can't use it, or at least not as effectively.

COR/RNG can't use it due to TP Bonus ranged weapons.
GEO needs a Dunna to cast bubbles, so they get one minute of use out of it if Dematerialize is available.
PUP forfeits their Automaton
BST can use it, but makes recalling pets incredibly annoying
DRG can use it (I do on mine), but you forfeit Angon (doesn't matter if you're attack capped)
SMN - Avatar needs to be 119
BRD - Can use it after singing, but anytime songs need to be reapplied mid-fight, loses value
NIN - gains a decent DPS speed boost, but sacrifices Daken FUA (which is already at like 90+% in proper build)

That leaves you with Mage jobs (lol SCH WHM BLM), Tank jobs (lolDD PLD RUN), and the remainder of ones that benefit from it the most. The jobs that gain the most from it are the jobs that were kind of already behind in the first place: DRK, MNK. But it's not 20 jobs drooling over this thing. RDM is probably one of the jobs that benefits from it that never needed it to keep up.



Something to be considered is that Hoxne ampulla, though it may appear to only affects your pockets, the more it becomes widely used, it has an effect on the overall server economy, because people are draining gil from the server for damage. I don't think the ampulla will ever become so mainstream that the jobs that favor it become high use for everything, because that has an eventual penalty and the bill comes due. Plus, I just don't see large amounts of people using Hoxne ampulla on their own. I see a small subset of players using it to have a little fun in boosting their own damage. I highly doubt it becomes such a staple in every set that people are literally shouting for Hoxne only DDs. This is hyperbole IMO.


Kind of a weird strawman here. This is a very specific fight that uses a handful of comps, and you are asking why WAR isn't included? WAR is the staple DD for 8b. If you wanted, you could fit it into a comp, but why does that matter? There's about a half dozen jobs that AREN'T included in 8/9b at all, or none of Gaol at all. WAR is not being left out because it's not being built around for one, very specific TP denial boss. Cmon...


(/s) I have a problem with every job having access to Dual Wield. That was NIN's thing. And now every job can do it, sometimes better. NIN has plateaued. This is kind of how silly the argument you are making sounds.


This is amazing irony in this post, and you probably don't even see why. Despite WAR not having a self-JA haste delay reduction, have you noticed that it is STILL preferred over every single one of those jobs (besides COR or RNG for support/shooting fights) in Gaol? Imagine how broken of a job you have to be, to not be able to cap your delay but still be the preferred option for every fight in a support-job restricted fight. Insane argument here, I need a refill of my coffee for this.

Galkas fighting amongst the tribe YESSSSSSS

With all due respect, boo f'ing hoo. Come join the party with all the rest of the non-BRD non-COR jobs.

In particular, my meticulously geared NIN BLU RNG BST PUP have absolutely zero sympathy for the easiest and cheapest job in the game to gear for strong endgame performance, who has been in a princess slot for most of the past decade and welcome pretty much everywhere, not getting as much of a buff as other jobs from new thing. Warcry's not going anywhere. A full array of strong weapon type options aren't going anywhere. WAR is gonna be juuuuust fine. [EDIT: And LOL, noticed that 4 of those 5 jobs Buukki correctly called out as having serious Hoxne limitations, so Hoxne's not really helping them shake up the status quo and break into meta compositions, is it?]

NIN still hasn't come back from its Aht Urghan era peak. BLU and BST have been deemphasized (and in some cases, nerfed) for the past decade since they were deemed too strong during the early Escha days.

I'm a multi-REMA WAR and it's my second or third highest ML job. And even I think you're going way overboard here ;)

And I mean... maybe it just opens up fun new possibilities for WAR? That's not really the worst. Grab an Ukon or a Farsha with a sick DA damage+/crit build and make an absurd white damage set? I'm kinda looking forward to that as one of the most fun use cases for the Hoxne Ampulla I got this month from Gobbiebox (!!!)

I think there is probably very little consideration of any job balance on new gear beyond whether you wear heavy/light/mage/healer/pet sets. Just be glad you are a WAR and not any of the real black sheep jobs.

Whats the order of operation on Escutechton's sub skill +10? I'm presuming its base +10(capped at 70) then any extra skill from equipment? ie: a subcraft between 65 with relevant torque will be considered 72 and not 67 with enhancement on.

A lot of good points discussing WAR's current dominant position but also: WAR would gain a boost from (IMO) 4 pieces of the new limbus set in their TP set. They didn't get shafted in any way. The best job in the game for melee damage got 4 new, better TP pieces. They have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Hoxne is actually plenty viable for WAR, even if you dont wear glass cannon. Its value is = X double attack, where X = the number of DA your set is missing. Even if that's "only" 25% or whateve4, it's still an incredibly good ammo piece. You could argue about whether or not it's "worth" 1k gil per swing, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's BIS for WAR if you run some sims.

Oh no, it's not BIS enough? Please.

No, that combination would be 70. It's skill first, then shield.

ew
thanks

whats the point of it then lmao

TBH, I didn't have capped subcrafts on MOST of my mules before the new gear came out. No point going past 60~ until there was a level 60+ recipe, since the shield does the rest of the work for you.

It is a pretty limited value though, TBH.

Ive been seeing it a lot more recently, so i have to ask, is DNC good in sortie? I see yells for dnc, ive seen it talked about on ffxiah(recently in a geo thread as i looked for gear sets).

Last i remember dnc was used by only hardcore people, like PUP.

Is it useful in sortie? Does it have good dmg now? What's the utility of dnc? I assumed box step for lower evasion wouldnt really matter if you have madrigal and distract 3, but of course i could be wrong which is why i'm asking. Most i've ever touched the job was sub for dynamis farming

It's for aminon, there's whole writeups on it.

Aside from sortie, dnc has no special use anywhere

Only used since it's able to generate tp without meleeing while still doing good deeps

Not just Aminon. Its built for Sortie in general. (SAM and DNC was the best combo for melee method we found)

Steps for each boss, Climatic for each boss, Jig for running with C/G curse. SPs = more 99k spam. With Prime (s3+) you have dark and light covered.

DNC is also very viable for Limbus, Jig the shorter floors so you aren't constantly rolling. Solid DPS and can spot heal.

It is just aminon. You don't specifically look for DNC to do sortie minus aminon.

You look for DNC to do aminon, the other bosses just happen to be included in the run. Which DNC is also fine at.

(you can use dnc anywhere you want, but why are people specifically looking for dancers is not the same question)

Underrated for sure. You have Climactic ready for every floor too, so you get pretty high spikes on WS.

DNC is the best job for Mireu (and probably the new limbus group content and RSE fights) because there's a good chance nobody else brought it and box step is a seperate debuff with a very considerable defense- at lv10

DNC is one of the most powerful jobs available to players in the game, particularly within recent years, but in reality ever since Steps cap was increased to 10.

The reason for its power is simple. It's been given many buffs and adjustments over the years, most of which were overlooked by the playerbase for a long time.

DNC is actually useful almost everywhere. Its only real downsides are that it doesn't sport magic or crowd control innately, doesn't have good Blunt or Slashing damage options, and has relatively low durability (lower HP and defense on its armor etc).

Steps are their own category of debuff, and have a dedicated slot given to their debuffs effects, which are unresistable.

Box Step when stacked to 10 yields a -23% defense down effect i.e. Dia III + Light Shot in potency with its own slot. This is DNC's biggest ticket item.

Haste Samba with 5/5 merits. This provides the Haste Daze debuff which causes all other meleeing players on the same target to gain 10% JA haste.

Its steps provide evasion down, crit evasion down, and magic evasion down. All useful, but not as useful as Box Step.

Then it has very potent Waltz healing JAs, including what amounts to being Erase + Esuna. AOE movement speed+ JA.

On top of all of that, thanks to the merited ability, "No Foot Rise" and Reverse Flourish, DNC can generate TP without engaging in large amounts. It then also sports what amounts to a Bully + Sneak Attack forced crit, save for the fact that it's modified by CHR instead of DEX, in Climactic Flourish.

Its SP, Grand Pas, lets DNC perform Climactic Flourish back to back 3 times, meaning when done right, DNC has a means of doing like... I wanna say... 5? Might just be 4, I'm not a DNC main, but 4 or possibly more forced crit weaponskills back to back. The forced crit ensures they are perfectly accurate in so far as I know, and very likely to hit damage cap.

The only reason DNC is not ubiquitous through all content is that it's very busy. It doesn't have the strong Blunt/Slashing options mentioned before. Player perception/lack of knowledge. And needing at least the Empyrean dagger or an A path Setan Kober, to do comparable raw numbers in content where things like Grand Pas/NFR won't be as pivotal as opposed to things like Naegling WAR and such.

Sortie is actually kind of the perfect content for it. There's no damage resistances for physical damage across the board. It'll start every boss fight being able to weaponskill immediately, and apply the -23% defense down within the first 15 seconds of every fight thanks to Presto (doesn't even really need to do a second Presto on ground floor afik).

For Aminon in particular, not only is Box Step amazing, but the other steps help your other members not miss their WS too, as Aminon has like 1700 evasion, and so even with Madrigals and stuff, MLs depending, the support jobs like GEO/BRD/COR may want more accuracy in their WS set(Quickstep blunts that).

But it's also really good for a lot of Ambuscades, and really good on Dyna D bosses, particularly Wave 3's as well.

It just doesn't get to show up to Odyssey and shine, because like many jobs, it wasn't designed with Odyssey in mind.

Spot heal, gives everyone(minus enspell users) 10% job haste which is almost always useful, -23% def down that stacks on everything else, basically free aoe mov speed ontop of being a strong dd in its own right

It started to shine in dyna for some groups, sortie just pushed it a lot further as that content really is built to the jobs strengths(move quick, quick debuff, burst dmg, move quick to the next fight)

Thanks for the info. Looks like i should take a look into dnc then.

What would even be the pt set up for that sam/dnc be btw, sam dnc cor brd geo whm?

RDM instead of GEO in standard 8b group.

Aminon + as many bosses as possible is likely going to be easier and more Galli than attempting an 8-boss melee run.

As long as everyone is ready with /drk sets and stuff for Aminon.

Typical Aminon setup is pld/something with stoneskin, rdm/drk, cor/drk, brd/drk, geo/drk, dnc/drg.

just finished farming my incursion ki to 143, and when i talk to the npc he says something along the lines of, havent you figured it out yet, theres to many of us.. and proceeds to take my ki's. Am i just done at 143? any reason to keep turning in ki's?

143 is the max no point talking to the npc but keeping the KI keeps the warps activated if you do more runs

thanks, just trying to make sure i have it all wrapped up for completions sake!