Also, it doesn't matter what knuckles a MNK has. Even a full pink MNK rocking a White Belt teamed up with anything with Cure 3 or higher can duo the universe.
/Abyssea
Vere Vs Spharai |
||
Vere vs Spharai
Also, it doesn't matter what knuckles a MNK has. Even a full pink MNK rocking a White Belt teamed up with anything with Cure 3 or higher can duo the universe.
/Abyssea Fenrir.Terminus said: » What's all this lack of consensus going on around here? I don't know, but it's a damn good time to figure everything out then, right? Wish I was activated atm. Fenrir.Terminus said: » What's all this lack of consensus going on around here? Phoenix.Destrac said: » Fenrir.Nightfyre said: » Phoenix.Destrac said: » Is this implying that Verethragna ODD can occur on multiple hits? Which would be wrong. Verethragna ODD happens only on the second fist, but doesn't occur on DA/TA/multi-hit. Vegetto says otherwise. According to his testing: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17519-New-Monk-Weapon-skills/page6 Let me see if i can find a screenshot showing it can proc on more than one hit if the second fist DA/TA's... cus i'm sure i've seen it happen before.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: » Base delay: 280-5 from Tantra +2 = 275 Spharai: 275+86=361 = 180.5 delay per fist TP/hit is exactly 5.0 Verethragna: 275+51=326 = 163 delay/fist, 4.8 TP/hit (4.8/163)/(5.0/180.5)=1.06306748=6.3% advantage in TP gain I could do it the long way and show you attacks generated per unit time but it comes out exactly the same way. You're right. I thought it was TPPerRound/2 instead of DelayPerRound/2 for H2H. In that case, Verethragna does get a decent amount of TP advantage (6 TP per minute), since it goes under the 180 threshold for significant increase. Haste effects will increase this, but we still have to consider wasted TP per WS, in practice. The slight increases for the range over 180 delay aren't really significant enough to overcome waste (at least for 35 delay difference). I'm not sure I follow, are you trying to argue that Vere will have significantly more "waste" TP than Spharai?
Edits complete, brings the two weapons (95 Spharai 90 Vere) basically even in the conditions used. Obviously subject to variation depending on conditions. Was using the wrong formula in the previous page.
When I get back I need to formally test the ODD on offhand hits/multiple times per attack round. Fenrir.Nightfyre said: » I'm not sure I follow, are you trying to argue that Vere will have significantly more "waste" TP than Spharai? Edits complete, brings the two weapons (95 Spharai 90 Vere) basically even in the conditions used. Obviously subject to variation depending on conditions. No. By wasted TP I mean the average TP that people WS at over 100%. For myself, I've usually noticed on average 105% TP when WS-ing, that is 5% wasted (you can argue that it makes the WS better through fTP, but this is really insignificant). This is considering you WS right after the round that gets over 100% TP. I'm not discounting Verethragna's TP advantage, but it is not as big as it seems on paper due to this wasted effect. If no, then it's irrelevant because both will have waste TP. Vere will have 6% more waste in theory, but 1) it will still have 6% more non-waste TP and 2) waste TP on Vere at least does something useful in that it's 1% critrate per 10 TP.
If you're talking about simple overflow TP as a product of tp/hit not being evenly divisible by your remaining TP to WS post-weaponskill and multiattacking, that's a slightly more complicated matter that I don't want to write out the math for given the number of cases involved but I assure you it still holds true. There's some mild variation due to TP/hit truncation and small potential differences in average hits/ws (Shijin makes great use of Toci's and Ocelomeh +1, add some DA and TA), but it's still roughly 6%. 1% crit rate at the moment, or after the nerf?
only found one screenshot that looks like it may have ODD'd twice on a triple attack, but there's no timestamp so there's not really any proof in it :3 Bahamut.Gimpness said: » 1% crit rate at the moment, or after the nerf? only found one screenshot that looks like it may have ODD'd twice on a triple attack, but there's no timestamp so there's not really any proof in it :3 Offline
Posts: 370
Bahamut.Serj said: » Was using the wrong formula in the previous page. When I get back I need to formally test the ODD on offhand hits/multiple times per attack round. I cannot vouch for the multiple hits proc. But per round I only had 1 ODD on mnk, primarily being on the offhand swing. A few high criticals on the primary hand swing potentially being ODD. None the less, only 1 ODD per 2 rounds. In hindsight, you're right. TP waste doesn't really matter for either weapon, since it affects Spharai too.
Bahamut.Serj said: » Shijin Spiral does not carry initial ftp through all hits. It's simply 5.0625 assuming all hits land, and a 5% attack bonus according to BG According to my testing, not BG's, so it should read "according to the off forums". For vere vs spharai, spharai wins, but not by much and only if you have good shinjin gear (mix of dex and attack). You can use Motenten's spreadsheet if you want but don't forget to use realistic shijin gear because otherwise if you ws in you full AF3+2 it's going to suck slightly. Using my personnal tools which simulated everything I have spharai a few % better than vere, and there is no big difference depending on defense or level difference. Spharai favours full usukane.
with 99 Spharai getting 40% boost to FH, is FH a viable WS, possibly passing all other H2H?
Not even close. Spharai will still be using Shijin Spiral.
Fenrir.Shadowbear said: » Look at all the OPINIONS floating around here - even those backed up with fancy math are nothing but opinions and everyone has a right to there own. So the way I see it you are all right. What does this even mean? Mathematics doesn't produce the type of opinion you're referring to, it provides a stepping stone to a definitive. Discrepancy occurs in mathematics when one is either working off a faulty premise, or when one has yet to identify and/or account for all variables. Furthermore, "opinions" are nothing more than watered down assertions that, very much the same as everything else ever put forth, are based on reasonable certitude, reasonable assumptions based on limited or only partially relevant certitude, or a misapprehension. Like now, for instance: it's your opinion that all opinions are correct by virtue of being opinions. Based on the actual definition of an opinion, I'm able to tell you that your opinion is definitively incorrect. Leviathan.Pimpchan said: » Bahamut.Serj said: » Shijin Spiral does not carry initial ftp through all hits. It's simply 5.0625 assuming all hits land, and a 5% attack bonus according to BG According to my testing, not BG's, so it should read "according to the off forums". Did you post it on BG? Then Serj got it from BG. You act like you discovered the cure for cancer and Phizer came to steal it from you. Speaking of cancer, I thought you were banned long time ago... aaaannnnd, blocked. No worries. Fenrir.Minjo said: » Fenrir.Shadowbear said: » Look at all the OPINIONS floating around here - even those backed up with fancy math are nothing but opinions and everyone has a right to there own. So the way I see it you are all right. What does this even mean? Mathematics doesn't produce the type of opinion you're referring to, it provides a stepping stone to a definitive. Discrepancy occurs in mathematics when one is either working off a faulty premise, or when one has yet to identify and/or account for all variables. Furthermore, "opinions" are nothing more than watered down assertions that, very much the same as everything else ever put forth, are based on reasonable certitude, reasonable assumptions based on limited or only partially relevant certitude, or a misapprehension. Like now, for instance: it's your opinion that all opinions are correct by virtue of being opinions. Based on the actual definition of an opinion, I'm able to tell you that your opinion is definitively incorrect. Actually, no. See, what you need to do is read the thread and use your context clues to see people were posting tings as fact and everyone arguing about who's facts are actually facts. At the same time, people were saying that there were no opinions posted. Except there are a lot of opinions being posted... weird. Little more common sense, a little less thesaurus.com. Pchan is still mad he got temp banned from BG. It'll be up soon though!
Did all that, and agree that a lot of fact fabrication was going on. That doesn't change how blatantly incorrect his statement was.
And if anything I typed in those two paragraphs requires a thesaurus, god help us. Fenrir.Nightfyre said: » Pchan is still mad he got temp banned from BG. It'll be up soon though! Pchan is going to be allowed back, and I'm not. That's still painful, if only because it hurts my brain to comprehend it. Pchan makes a good punching bag, you not so much.
I'm still convinced it had everything to do with my asking Isladar if she fancied vagina.
Tanaka-san thinks Spherai is R.A.D
Since im lazy i will just repost from other thread:
First of all you need to make those calculations again for nerfed Vsmite and for top equip for both WS. SS(with Spharai99) is not inferior to Vsmite at 100TP without temps like chempion drink or buffs like blood rage or idk Ramuh favor. Its slightly better with Impetus but im not sure of that either. Because of how gimped is ODD for h2h (Only works ONCE per attack round) it has very small impact to overall damage. 11-12% for triple damage is also very close to 30%ODD anyway especially considering that because of fists:kick ratio hidden damage on relic will multiply more % of total damage than ODD from Empyrean. Math start: TP fSTR I will assume 13 for Veret and 8 for Spharai cratio I will assume 1.5 for Veret and 1.55 for Spharai DPS: Veret fist: (42+13+52)=107 kick: (52+8+45)= 105 DA:21% TA:3% hit (fist) per rounds: ~2.53 kick dmg per round: 105*0.27=~28 Damage per round - (107*1.3+107+107*0.53+28)= ~331 Delay (2x march 25%, haste spell 15%, 25% haste in equip) (275+51)*0.35=114.1 DPS: 331*1.5*60/114.1=261 Spharai fist: (52+8+52)=112 kick: (52+8+45)= 105 DA:21% TA:3% hit (fist) per rounds: ~2.53 kick dmg per round: 105*0.27=~28 Damage per round - (112*1.24+112+112*0.53+28)= ~338 Delay (2x march 25%, haste spell 15%, 25% haste in equip) (275+86)*0.35=126.35 DPS: 338*1.55*60/126.35=~249 So 5% advantage for Veret but only if you can maintain ODD and its for hidden effect rate with relic 95. Even slight boost to hidden will put Spharai equal or ahead. Obviosuly at VW you can usually maintain aftermath lv3 thats why I wrote that Veret pulls ahead only with temps (wing) but will be far behind when you have breaks between fights (nyzul, dynamis). its also dps w/o counter damage and obviosuly that will again pulls Spharai a little higher. Now WS: Its much more complicated because there is many sets for Smite that are considered top. Someone please post best Vsmite gear so I can math it. I would assume: Veret/_/_/Thew Dhead+1/3%critneck/vulcan/brutal af3+2/nomkahpa?/pyro/pyro rancor/windbuffet/dlegs+1/af3+2 Dhead+1 with 3%WSC,6att Dlegs+1 with 11STR total Well I found improvement myself. Moonshade earring and Epona (obviously) WS: Vsmite STR: Base 107 Food 7 Boost-STR 24 Equip 71 total: 209 WSC: 106 Attack: Almost identical to tp set so ... cRatio: 1.5 Crit: Base with earring: 13% neck: 3% back: 5% dDEX: 5% Merit: 5% Impetus: 20% (avg with capped accuracy, might be less in reality) Total: 51% TA: 3% DA: 21% avg fTP: 5.78 (106+42+51+13)*5.78=1225 (1225*2.5*1.2*0.51+1225*1.5*0.49)= 2774 with Impetus (1225*2.5*0.31+1225*1.5*0.69)= 2217 without Impetus Shijin Spiral: Set: DEX: base: 91 equip: 84 total: 175 WSC: 148 Attack: slightly less than Vsmite but 5% bonus pulls it back to 1.55 cRatio fSTR: lets say 0 avg fTP: 5.73 (52+51+148)*5.73*1.55=2229 So yeah avg Vsmite will pull ahead and Veret will also pull ahead by a little but: 1. If you are close to fstr cap during TP with Spharai than not only melee dmg of spharai will win but also boost-dex would set avg SS at 2406 2. If you tanking something that you can counter then Spharai dps will also get a significant boost 3. If you do any event that wont let you keep aftermath with Veret then Spharai will win Overall Veret should win in Voidwatch and vs very strong mobs especially with Impetus up. Spharai will easily win in Nyzul, Dynamis. Probably also even in other events when Impetus is down. |
||
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.
|