[Dev] Response To Relic/Mythic/Empy 99 Trial Req.

12-21-2011 08:07 PM [source]

Camate Community Rep

The below was stated in the December version update notes: Quote: *New Magian trials for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons have been delayed to allow time for proper balancing. They are scheduled to be introduced to the test server in the near future and implemented in the release version in an additional version update. The items required for the trials, however, have been introduced in advance in this version update. That being said, we are taking your feedback into consideration, but please do not make assumptions based on data that has not yet been finalized. As the trials are currently being checked for balance, there is a possibility that it will change. I understand the desire to offer feedback using test server data, but until that data is finalized for testing, we would appreciate everyone waiting until there is more information available.

That's right everyone, don't always assume SE is crazy and only wants us to play for years and pay more money to get these final weapons. After all they care about us deeply and after the long struggle to get your relics and mythics you all deserve the easiest road out of all the trials. Just wait, you'll see!

I read balance twice in that statement. Double balance!

relic/mythics meh ukon onry!

As the trials are currently being checked for balance, there is a possibility that it will change.

So after waiting over a week to respond to mass hysteria on the forums, THIS is the official response? Possibility? Possibility?! It's freaking insane they consider this even a remote chance of being approved. Hell, judging by the post, even if they do decrease the requirements (in their infinite mercy no doubt), it's still probably going to be something ridiculous like 100 PW instead of 500.

I think they are judging these trials based on how long they want players to work to complete them. It's the last one and I guess they want it to be special. I'm not sure if Afterglow would qualify as another relic, that really depends on what it does exactly. I could see the difficulty being as hard as getting your relic over again.

I've spent 6 months on my mythic, and another two to go, hell if I'm going to farm, pop, and kill PW more than 5 times just to be "special". I'd already have a mythic :< I'm special enough.

Make it too tedious, boring and overly time consuming and people might rather quit than complete it.

Yeah pretty much, I see a large number of people quitting if they don't make these weapons reasonable to complete by the average player. FFXI relying on countless manhours is a horrible thing and should never be brought back.

lol guess you didnt see the Ukon nerf post!

Huh...? Before the new dynamis system, relics were certainly not able to be completed by the average player, and I don't recall people quitting because of it.

I keep seeing this argument over and over again and I don't get it. I'm all for an easy trial (of course), but if they make it impossible, I'm certainly not going to quit over being unable to attain 5 more base damage on my gun, or whatever they're adding to the shield.

Basically, what you are asking for is a game that responds ONLY to casual players. Give the casual player everything, make everything in the game achievable for the casual player.
I am not saying that playing casually is remotely anything negative, but I definitely agree with Tanaka for leaving some content up to a minority of the playerbase.
I remember the feeling when I walked past an Apoc DRK in Tavnazia and thought "cool guy".
It is obvious that this feeling disappeared about anything in the game except for mythic.
I want that feeling back.
And I am pretty sure anyone else who considers himself capable of overcoming any challenge in FFXI will agree.

Another example:
If I have 300mil and a Relic costs roughly 120m to make at the moment on my server, what other option to max out my favourite job do I have after getting a relic?
Gearwise, damagewise and lookwise I am the same player as someone who was only barely able to farm the currency for a relic, but I myself am suited for something significantly harder than a relic.
So what option do I have if I want to find the greater challenge I seek? I can make multiple relics. YAY. 3 relics, woohoo. After 2, they simple lose the touch. It becomes a mass product. Nothing to equip the job you identify yourself the most with.

Except 500 PW kill or 1000 ADL kill requires way more effort than one person can do, you pretty much need effort of entire LS, and that's just not respecting player's time.

If someone is cool for having a relic, you're not winning.

Ok then let us ask SE to increase the amount to 10,000 ADL kills in order for retards like you to realize it is a placeholder.
And even if you need 100. Do you know what will happen?
People will figure out a way to lowman it with 6. People always did, always do and will always do. Stop raging over things that are not definite or over NMs that have hardly been defeated.
I still remember that some NMs in Abyssea seemed insanely hard to kill, but as people figured out strategies to deal with them and as they got easier, massive farming happened and strategies were optimized even more.

Depends. If 95->99 is the final upgrade stage, it really should be something challenging. Creating prestige is something that FFXI knows well how to do: mythics are a great example. They're difficult to get, so the feeling of elation and pride associated with finishing is immeasurable--along with knowing that people will do a double-take upon seeing dat mythic.

I think it should compare to the level cap increases. The Maat fight and Atori-Tutori fight are memorable, whereas the fetch quests are forgettable. Would you have been more satisfied finishing your relic/mythic/empyrean to 99 by simply trading 50 High Kindred's Crests? The only stage that would have stuck out in your mind would be the one to create the actual weapon--kind of hollow, isn't it?

The feeling of satisfaction of completing that last stage should outshine them all, so the difficulty and the diligence involved must be of the utmost level.

Don't be afraid of a task that is seemingly impossible; be motivated that if you work hard enough, you can achieve that sense of prestige. Many tasks in this game have appeared impossible at first sight. When Abyssea came out and the Empyrean weapons were introduced, 50 Carabosse's Gems seemed impossible. I gave up on that dream of being SUPAR SAMURAI TARU for a while, but the minute I found out that it was do-able with some friends and some dedication, I definitely went right for it.

You can say that it's a different situation from this, but I feel the same concept can be applied.

Don't be afraid of the challenge. Don't be the guy who gets an Empyrean and leaves it at 85 because you're unwilling to put forth the effort. Be the guy who succeeds and looks back on the previous you that thought you wouldn't be able to do it.

" I remember " is directed at an impression of roughly 3 years ago.
You successfully missed my whole point.

Not really sure what the big deal is here... I almost feel that some people just expect the 99 versions (and even earlier versions) to be handed to them. I remember at 75 when having a relic really meant something because of how long it took to get. If we are talking about the best weapons in the game, then maybe it isn't a bad thing that not everyone has them, lol.

I see people saying how it has taken them 6 months for a mythic, or 3-4 for a relic... and then complain (not everyone, I get that) about how long or how much it will take/cost to get to 95 or 99. I really wonder how many of these people played when relics at 75 were hard to get.

I see people complain about how it is boring and it is the same thing over and over. Not sure really what else should be expected from an RPG. RPGs all, to some extent, are about the grind. Level grinding, killing mobs for drops, etc... If that is boring, is this really the right game for you? yet, even I am torn on that idea... because it does seem that SE is trying to kill the grind. Even xping now is so much less of a grind. So, idk. Maybe the problem isn't the player base as much as it is the creators lol.

But even then, it can be reduced to my opinion. Some people want it harder, some people want it easier. But, I am sorry... the BEST weapons in the game should take time. Again, it comes down to my opinion, but it seems reasonable for any level 99 TOP weapon to take a year+ to complete. 500 PWs... that seems easy to me for the BEST.

We already know that with PWs being the requirements that it reasonably follows that anyone with the appropriate weapon will want it. They have already made certain things 100%. I just don't know how much easier people want it. And now isn't PW being offered by some random Moogle daily reward? It boggles my mind.

yet despite the boggling, I suppose I get it. For any game to be fed money, I guess it needs to be more user friendly. So I suppose what is really sad (again, my opinion) is that people want the best without accepting the grind or wanting to offer some time. So maybe it is an issue with the players over the creators, lol...

Or maybe it is both. Or nobody. Maybe my opinion means nothing. SE wants to make money. If they can make the most by making things easier they will. I would too. If players can demand it to be easier, then I suppose they can get it to some extent. I personally don't, but I am not the only one playing the game, lol. Majority will win.

Actually gonna head to bed now. I apologize to those who read this and now feel they wasted time, and I hope that anyone on my server who agrees with me might send me a /tell. I am really not bitter about any of this. I have 0 relics, mythics, or emps (I main BLM, so no need really, lol). But I still see the players. I see players with 0 skill and a lvl 85 emp. I have actually seen players with an empy weapon not even change gear when TPing and then WSing. And this is fine... you can play how you want. But I am pretty sure that the best weapons in the game SE designed (at some point at least) to be reserved for the elite.

Anyway, I am done, going to sleep as I can barely stay awake. Just saw this thread and figured I would add my 2 cents (which obviously has turned into way more than 2).

I partly agree with Kerokun, but once and for all:
The G10 fight is fun, but it is not really memorable. You do not need any special equipment to win it. 1:55 win with mediocrily-geared jobs. Just get dual-wielders or fasthitters (THF NIN MNK DNC) and use inferno howl / perfect defense with a BRD (does not even need soul voice). It is ridiculously easy and does not require equipment, but rather setup, which is not too much to ask.

You do realize that just to get the zeni to *pop* 500 PW requires turning in 100+ zeni every hour of every day for *4 years*.

That 4 years without being able to hold down a job. 4 years without going to see a movie with friends. 4 years without being able to *sleep*.

And that doesn't count actually *getting* the plates or fighting the 15000 NMs *other* than PW (remember, each PW popset requires fighting *30* NMs)...

Someone who plays 8 hours a day, every day would be finished in something like *20 years*.

That's 20 years of playing the game like a full time job.

And you think that seems *easy*?

I was asleep, but are you people HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE? Do you seriously think it's a good idea to have weapons that REQUIRE having your entire linkshell spend days upon days killing things just for YOU? Relics were always doable by any specific ambitious player and required no outside help besides the few NMs. Not even going to touch the PW thing for mythics, but if this forces a group to have to kill ADL for you lets say.. 100 times? That is taking away so much potential gil from all these people helping you, not to mention the massive time sink.

-1 for being fail

Then you'd need to kill it 1,000~18,000 times regardless x.x
I think I'll when I get my relic that is, keep it at 95 if this persists x.x

Edit: If said 18 people all had relics, I'd say shove it if I was at the end of that line.

But... There's always some hardcore sadomasochist with too much time on their hands who'll go, "Challenge Accepted!"

You aren't one of them though.

Execpt the trial isn't kills, where teaming up like that would work. No, it's *items* that the NM drops.

All teaming up into an alliance of 18 means that now you need to collectively kill 18000 ADL instead of 1000.

I can see them implementing using the level 75 version of a Relic/Mythic and level 80 Empy weapons as a material for the 99

there would be a difference between having to beat every arch dyna boss 1-3 for a drop item on these items that the above average players have already put WAY more work then anything else into. And having to kill Arch DL, and if you don't know what it takes to pop PW then don't comment because from what you are saying either you never plan on having a relic so you don;t care what they have to do because you would rather them not have the weapon that way the can't be better then you, or you have never done any ZNM in your life and how much time it would be required to get even 10 PW let alone 100-500. Same goes with the amount of work that it takes to get an arch dynalord pop, the people required to kill, the time restrictions basically your asking a group of 12 very talented players or 18+ good players to spend 2 to 3 hours a day competing with everyone else for 500 straight days.

As far as the afterglow goes it's probably aftermath that is sphered, So really the people who own the weapons aren't even receiving this benefit they are doing all this work for the other players. If they don't want people to *** then they should explain stuff., but SE doesn't explain anything to it's player base nor really care about it's player base where as every other MMO is becoming more popular then FFXI and XIV because of these reasons.

I would consider this trial somewhat reasonable if it was only 100 kills and not a single drop that makes it a horrible bottleneck.

There will always be people that complete a particular requirement to be the best. This includes, if need be, using and abusing a 100 people if necessarily.