It's relatively obvious that these horrfying, morally-deficient lesbian monstrosities have brainwashed this poor man into doing their bidding and spreading the gay agenda throughout the world.
Manipulation of a child's thoughts is such a despicable crime. They could have let him grow up normally, making his own decisions, but instead, they decided to use him as a pawn in their agenda-tactics.
I saw Elana post this earlier this month, and wanted to reply because it reminded me so much of that Lisa Miller/Janet Jenkins news-story from a couple of years ago (that resurfaced in the news earlier this year with the arrest of the pastor that tried to resist the court order) but hesitated because I couldn't find a reasonably unbiased article to reference.
For those not familiar with the case, I'll give four LOL... (so as not to indicate unfair thinking on my part...) :p
...obviously the same facts but different perspectives on the same situation, and different biases (maybe the WP one is least-biased, but is actually light on facts.) You can easily glean what is going on by just reading a couple of them, really.
But in spite of the various "spins" on this event whether towards tolerance or intolerance of gay parents (single or otherwise) and who was the injured party, my view on it--which is biased, admittedly--was actually to view it in a positive light.
My take on it is that painful nasty dragged-out/dirty custody battles like this (involving the legal system) happen to het couples ALL THE TIME EVERY DAY, even involving religious conflicts or to the point of hiding children to avoid court orders. To my mind, equality comes the day this sort of nastiness occurs exactly as it did in the articles above...and no one thinks it is newsworthy. That it just happens because two human beings living together tend to just have conflicts of this nature, tend to change their minds about each other and their feelings over time, and that even in this ugliness it is just two regular people (and the family they share together) going through a break up. And it's just a sad situation, but not unlike the multitude of other sad situations any other ex-couple faces going through the same thing.
I posted that sentiment on Grace the Spot once, LOL. I think the mods thought I was trolling. :p But it's a weird sort of equality...a normative, quiet sort of equality, where no one thinks twice about it. Not an insidious creeping "agenda"...just the same living experience as everyone else.
It's relatively obvious that these horrfying, morally-deficient lesbian monstrosities have brainwashed this poor man into doing their bidding and spreading the gay agenda throughout the world.
Manipulation of a child's thoughts is such a despicable crime. They could have let him grow up normally, making his own decisions, but instead, they decided to use him as a pawn in their agenda-tactics.
I pray for his eternal soul.
I highly doubt a couple brought a living breathing child into this world, just to "spread their gay-agenda." If you sincerely think that well... umm ok... lol
I think its amazing that these two woman take the idea of family so serious, beyond just gay-marriage. Hell, they obviously raised the child decently. He's in college and looks presentable etc...
Its quite clear the only reason they brought a child into the world was to actually have a normal family.
It's relatively obvious that these horrfying, morally-deficient lesbian monstrosities have brainwashed this poor man into doing their bidding and spreading the gay agenda throughout the world.
Manipulation of a child's thoughts is such a despicable crime. They could have let him grow up normally, making his own decisions, but instead, they decided to use him as a pawn in their agenda-tactics.
I pray for his eternal soul.
I highly doubt a couple brought a living breathing child into this world, just to "spread their gay-agenda." If you sincerely think that well... umm ok... lol
And since the religious side of this thing is so intrinsic to the topic, I'll do a two-fer and talk about stuff from pages 3 and 4...but to avoid derail I'll /spoiler it so no one has to deal with fallout-exposure to the subject (except maybe Bart and Minjo...) :p
To address Bart and Minjo's back-and-forth, there actually is a very strong tradition of interpretation of Biblical passages. The fact that there are two works to reconcile, both the Torah and the New Testament, along with the differing accounts of the Four Evangelists (MMLJ), does actually lead to different interpretations based on what has come before and which canonical references are made (or omitted) by each of the Evangelists.
For sure from an atheistic standpoint, these discrepancies and inconsistencies point to the fact that the Bible was written over many years by many different (human) writers. And for certain, that plays towards Minjo's point that such a work with so many inconsistencies must acknowledge them all dogmatically if the work as a whole is to be accepted. However, again, there is a decided amount of self-referential material in the New Testament that leads to a modern precedence for individual interpretation of the texts.
As such, any "wholecloth" argument based on logically pinning Christians into defending obviously dated dogmatic references, particularly in the Old Testament, has to acknowledge that Christians on an individual level are allowed a degree of separation from dogma. So for Minjo, if you have an open mind to why Christians have a certain mindset, as shown by Bart and others, you might want to read up on these references just to understand better.
The most obvious for example, tend to be where Jesus describes his role as prophet/Messiah figure...
...in this passage, Jesus can be seen as contradicting existing Mosaic Law, i.e. the laws governing Jews to this day described in the Torah, on several accounts (you can read the wiki...I don't want this to be too long.)
The concept here and in the other parts of the New Testament is that Jesus, in the Christian interpretation, is in effect establishing a "new and everlasting covenant" with Jehovah and mankind that supersedes/co-opts the laws as described in Leviticus.
Jesus' further conflicts with the Pharasic Order of Orthodox Jewish leaders and teachings in the various parables further underscores the differentiation between his belief structures and those of the Old Testament. In many of the parables are anecdotal interpretations of Old Testament law that surprise his followers, such as the the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
After the founding of Christianity, this would later lead to a fundamental shift in deference from Old Testament law to New Testament interpretation. This later comes to a head during the Protestant Reformation, where the concepts of self-interpretation of the Bible versus the "official" interpretations set forth by the Catholic Church.
Part of this conflict, aside from the political/social/economic aspect of the Reformation, deals with the notions of Orthodoxy versus Orthopraxy...
...as you can read from the articles above, there is a decided "tradition" for both interpretations. Further, as I mentioned earlier, there is decided 'conflicting' passages as to which method of interpretation of the Bible is "valid" for Christians.
So, again, while the above will not at all sway any given atheist away from the perspective that the Bible does not stem from divine origin, nor does it create an infallible ground for Christians to defend their faith (at all), it does actually mean that it is unfortunately very difficult to deny non-orthodox Christians the ability to refute or deny given dogmatic passages or verses from Biblical texts. An orthopraxic interpretation does allow modern Christians to be "Cafeteria Catholics" or "self-study Protestants".
I am not trying to make Bart's point for him, and for certain as a lesbian I am not "all about" defending the intolerant aspects of Christian dogma, but there is a definite reason why modern non-orthodox Christians might reject a "Bible must be taken in its entirety" argument.
And since the religious side of this thing is so intrinsic to the topic, I'll do a two-fer and talk about stuff from pages 3 and 4...but to avoid derail I'll /spoiler it so no one has to deal with fallout-exposure to the subject (except maybe Bart and Minjo...) :p
To address Bart and Minjo's back-and-forth, there actually is a very strong tradition of interpretation of Biblical passages. The fact that there are two works to reconcile, both the Torah and the New Testament, along with the differing accounts of the Four Evangelists (MMLJ), does actually lead to different interpretations based on what has come before and which canonical references are made (or omitted) by each of the Evangelists.
For sure from an atheistic standpoint, these discrepancies and inconsistencies point to the fact that the Bible was written over many years by many different (human) writers. And for certain, that plays towards Minjo's point that such a work with so many inconsistencies must acknowledge them all dogmatically if the work as a whole is to be accepted. However, again, there is a decided amount of self-referential material in the New Testament that leads to a modern precedence for individual interpretation of the texts.
As such, any "wholecloth" argument based on logically pinning Christians into defending obviously dated dogmatic references, particularly in the Old Testament, has to acknowledge that Christians on an individual level are allowed a degree of separation from dogma. So for Minjo, if you have an open mind to why Christians have a certain mindset, as shown by Bart and others, you might want to read up on these references just to understand better.
The most obvious for example, tend to be where Jesus describes his role as prophet/Messiah figure...
...in this passage, Jesus can be seen as contradicting existing Mosaic Law, i.e. the laws governing Jews to this day described in the Torah, on several accounts (you can read the wiki...I don't want this to be too long.)
The concept here and in the other parts of the New Testament is that Jesus, in the Christian interpretation, is in effect establishing a "new and everlasting covenant" with Jehovah and mankind that supersedes/co-opts the laws as described in Leviticus.
Jesus' further conflicts with the Pharasic Order of Orthodox Jewish leaders and teachings in the various parables further underscores the differentiation between his belief structures and those of the Old Testament. In many of the parables are anecdotal interpretations of Old Testament law that surprise his followers, such as the the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
After the founding of Christianity, this would later lead to a fundamental shift in deference to Old Testament law and New Testament interpretation. This later comes to a head during the Protestant Reformation, where the concepts of self-interpretation of the Bible versus the "official" interpretations set forth by the Catholic Church.
Part of this conflict, aside from the political/social/economic aspect of the Reformation, deals with the notions of Orthodoxy versus Orthopraxy...
...as you can read from the articles above, there is a decided "tradition" for both interpretations. Further, as I mentioned earlier, there is decided 'conflicting' passages as to which method of interpretation of the Bible is "valid" for Christians.
So, again, while the above will not at all sway any given atheist away from the perspective that the Bible does not stem from divine origin, nor does it create an infallible ground for Christians to defend their faith (at all), it does actually mean that it is unfortunately very difficult to deny non-orthodox Christians the ability to refute or deny given dogmatic passages or verses from Biblical texts. An orthopraxic interpretation does allow modern Christians to be "Cafeteria Catholics" or "self-study Protestants".
I am not trying to make Bart's point for him, and for certain as a lesbian I am not "all about" defending the intolerant aspects of Christian dogma, but there is a definite reason why modern non-orthodox Christians might reject a "Bible must be taken in its entirety" argument.
It's relatively obvious that these horrfying, morally-deficient lesbian monstrosities have brainwashed this poor man into doing their bidding and spreading the gay agenda throughout the world.
Manipulation of a child's thoughts is such a despicable crime. They could have let him grow up normally, making his own decisions, but instead, they decided to use him as a pawn in their agenda-tactics.
I was raised catholic but my Mom told me the best line growing up. "Honey, my mom always told me the bible is the only book you need to live a happy marriage and raise a good family. Then I grew up and and the Bible never told me how to deal with a husband who leaves and cheats on his wife."
To this date i remember that. I respect a lot of the Bible's principles such as being generous to the poor, being an overall good person blah blah. But a lot of the stuff in that book is out of date and very difficult to apply in 2011. You need to be flexible with the bible. You cant read it verbatim, otherwise i should probably be stoning to death some hookers out front my house!
Its quite clear the only reason they brought a child into the world was to actually have a normal family.
Some once told me if I want a happy marriage I need to marry a happy person. If you apply it to these two individuals, perhaps they should try being normal if they wanted a normal family. Human nature has served us well the past several thousand years. Our race is far from perfect, but I don't see any large fundamental change in our behavior happening unless something very severe and unpleasant happens that forces us to change as a species.
I figured this would be of interest to folks here.
I do not know the young man in this video, at all. However, it's obvious that he is charismatic, intelligent, well-spoken, grounded, etc.
I personally do know two different lesbian couples that gave birth to baby boys, and they are raising the boys themselves. As far as I can see, they're doing just as good of a job raising the boys as any heterosexual parents could do. I do have concerns that the boys may lack for a male role model as they get older ... but the young man in this video could put my worries to rest about that topic.