Things Just Get Worse.
Things just get worse.
lol
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
The country is too large and diverse to hold under martial law. it can't happen. that doesnt mean bad stuff doesnt happen, but it slowly gets fixed.
Cities have come close, it was even talked about in Chicago over increasing gang activity. If a full blown riot happens to start then that very thing line can be crossed. You could expect to see national guard on the streets in that case.
The White House has said they will veto the provision as it currently stands.
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
The country is too large and diverse to hold under martial law. it can't happen. that doesnt mean bad stuff doesnt happen, but it slowly gets fixed.
Cities have come close, it was even talked about in Chicago over increasing gang activity. If a full blown riot happens to start then that very thing line can be crossed. You could expect to see national guard on the streets in that case.
An isolated incident in a city is different from a full military state.
HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE
seriously why does the government have to be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE
seriously why does the government have to be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE
because we elect politicians who serve special interests
you know what
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
The country is too large and diverse to hold under martial law. it can't happen. that doesnt mean bad stuff doesnt happen, but it slowly gets fixed.
It is a start though to be honest. All it takes is one state or city to lead by example. (As an example the struggle for union rights has spread from Wisconsin to other states..)
All it takes is one *** to ruin it for everyone in a manner of speaking.
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
It is a start though to be honest. All it takes is one state or city to lead by example. (As an example the struggle for union rights has spread from Wisconsin to other states..)
These same (similar) laws also got shot down in ohio after they were passed. sometimes things get worse before they get better
Just emailed both my state Senators to say "F*ck no" to this legislation.
What a bunch of ***. The military is not law enforcement. It's also unconstitutional to imprison an American without due process.
What a bunch of ***. The military is not law enforcement. It's also unconstitutional to imprison an American without due process.
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Cerberus.Tidis said: »
America, you crazy.
Can totally see the UK going this route if it actually passes, you know how we love to copy everything they do.
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
because we elect politicians who serve special interests
When was the last time you were given a choice of candidate to elect that didn't serve special interest?
I don't know if the problem is so much that Americans can't elect competent leaders, its that the current system is setup in such a way as to prevent competent people from even being a choice.
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Caitsith.Sai said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
because we elect politicians who serve special interests
When was the last time you were given a choice of candidate to elect that didn't serve special interest?
I don't know if the problem is so much that Americans can't elect competent leaders, its that the current system is setup in such a way as to prevent competent people from even being a choice.
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
The White House has said they will veto the provision as it currently stands.
This is a relief! I'm all for taking terrorists who murder people out of society, but for me they have to be proven terrorists, not merely suspected, and they can't be detained indefinitely without trial. That's just simply unlawful. I'm glad the White House has stated that they will veto!
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
because we elect politicians who serve special interests
When was the last time you were given a choice of candidate to elect that didn't serve special interest?
I don't know if the problem is so much that Americans can't elect competent leaders, its that the current system is setup in such a way as to prevent competent people from even being a choice.
I should be clear in what I mean by competent. I suspect nearly all up our upper gov is filled by people who are quite intelligent. For the most part you aren't going to rise to where they are if you aren't (a few exceptions of course).
The fed is basically like the politics version of the BCS. A system setup by the power players, that serves only the power players.
This law may be vetoed this time around, but it will eventually be passed. I may be a tin foil hat, but the powers at be can see that we are nearing a threshold in which people are not going to continue to accept what they are doing and will eventually begin to try and initiate change through other means than our current rigged elections. So naturally they are setting up measures that will allow them to more easily deal with people who rock the boat.
In all honesty, I don't see a way that in the end it won't end badly. All empires and nations eventually do end badly, but I suspect that those that initially fought for this country and set it up the way they did, would have hoped that we would have taken a little longer to get to that point than we are.
By competent I meant rational, and a lot of intelligent and unintelligent people alike are not rational.
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
By competent I meant rational, and a lot of intelligent and unintelligent people alike are not rational.
They are quite rational, but only for themselves. It's not going to change. Individuals may be quite unpredictable, but as a whole, human nature is beyond predictable.
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
By competent I meant rational, and a lot of intelligent and unintelligent people alike are not rational.
They are quite rational, but only for themselves. It's not going to change. Individuals may be quite unpredictable, but as a whole, human nature is beyond predictable.
They're good at keeping their jobs in the current political and social environment; that doesn't make them rational. :p
But I get your point.
Anyone feeling like we're morphing into a V for Vendetta-esque government?
thank god im moving to europe soon..
Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »
What a bunch of ***. The military is not law enforcement. It's also unconstitutional to imprison an American without due process.
The constitution?
What is that? Never heard of it.
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
The White House has said they will veto the provision as it currently stands.
Duh.
Caitsith.Sai said: »
When was the last time you were given a choice of candidate to elect that didn't serve special interest?
I don't know if the problem is so much that Americans can't elect competent leaders, its that the current system is setup in such a way as to prevent competent people from even being a choice.
Agreed.
Oh, sorry Skarwind, didn't mean to imply that I thought you were just complaining and not doing anything. I think it's great that you put this post up and got it some extra attention. I was just trying to lay a guilt trip and maybe get a few more people to do something.
Well, let's see where this goes tomorrow.
Well, let's see where this goes tomorrow.
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
The White House has said they will veto the provision as it currently stands.
A veto of this concerns me far less than the people who "sanely" proposed this idea.. This bill may never have had hope of being passed but the fact that it even came into play is what makes me nervous.
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Ok this is really scary, BUT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host)
"Alex Jones has been the center of many controversies. Jones has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing[16] and September 11 attacks" --
No longer as scared.
"Alex Jones has been the center of many controversies. Jones has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing[16] and September 11 attacks" --
No longer as scared.
Fenrir.Parak said: »
Ok this is really scary, BUT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host)
"Alex Jones has been the center of many controversies. Jones has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing[16] and September 11 attacks" --
No longer as scared.
"Alex Jones has been the center of many controversies. Jones has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing[16] and September 11 attacks" --
No longer as scared.
Just remember that line from Memento, "Don't believe his lies."
Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »
Just emailed both my state Senators to say "F*ck no" to this legislation.
What a bunch of ***. The military is not law enforcement. It's also unconstitutional to imprison an American without due process.
What a bunch of ***. The military is not law enforcement. It's also unconstitutional to imprison an American without due process.
In this case, Congress is simply attempting to change the traditional legal definition of due process at the federal level.
It's scary, but one could argue it's within their rights.
Diabolos.Mmbacon said: »
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
The White House has said they will veto the provision as it currently stands.
A veto of this concerns me far less than the people who "sanely" proposed this idea.. This bill may never have had hope of being passed but the fact that it even came into play is what makes me nervous.
Especially now.. With all the recent revolutions that have basically toppled government or at the very least challenged it in other countries, and now they're starting to gain strength here too.. Those in charge have reason to be afraid..
Not saying it's going to happen (just that it could) but over night all these people who have viewed themselves ruler of the world and enjoy their fancy lifestyles could find themselves back on the lower rungs with the rest of 'us'.. I'd be afraid too.. I'd be looking for some sort of contingency plan as well..
These aren't necessarily people who see the world in the short term as many people in our country do, they analyze for the long term.. I wouldn't say they were trying to get this going so they can shut down protests within the next couple of years, but I wouldn't deny that they might be trying to plan for 20 or 30 years down the line, you really can't make big changes over night like that.. You have to play the game, and the game politicians play is more like chess than it is like checkers.. You plan far ahead.
I probably sound like a nut, but I see how things work in the long run as well... It's why I keep saying that rights are slowly stripped away, they chip at them like delicate marble, a ballet of convincing us this little part needs to go, that part needs to be amended, in the short term that doesn't really matter, the short term isn't want scares me, it's the long term that scares me. You only have so many freedoms as of this moment, they keep chipping away at them, and over years, you find you have less and less freedoms.
Also, before anyone says "This is America, that could never happen".. I'm sure many thought state-backed genocide could never happen, either. But Stalin and Hitler happened, among many others. Even just people off the street can be convinced to do just about anything, not every single person will be receptive, but you might be surprised how easily people cave into doing something they would otherwise never consider doing, just because a person in authority told them to do so, such as that shown in the Milgram Experiment.
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I think you give them too much credit, Psycho.
This isn't part of some grand conspiracy. This is politicians universally abandoning all care or concern for long-term, complicated issues of governance, like the fine balance between open democracy versus public safety.
That doesn't make for good TV, so nobody cares about it anymore. It's all about the next 30 second sound bite -- the next ad-nausea narration of some preconceived echo-chamber political narrative about how the other guy is bad.
"We need to do whatever is necessary to keep Americans safe."
That's all you gotta say. Nobody is going to ask where the limit is, what that practically means, who enforces it, what the law should be, or any of that. Nobody has the patience or intellectual motivation to care anymore. Why even debate it? The other guy's just going to be universally wrong anyway. My favorite pundit told me so.
All you need to do to be a successful politician these days is get your 4-5 talking points in order, repeat them faithfully to the people who already believe them, and avoid any major reality show-style sex scandals or public gaffes while you do it. As long as you can pull that off through each 24-hour news cycle, you're home free and set for life.
No long-term conspiracy required. Just self-interested, short-sighted stupidity, and a public that doesn't demand anything more.
This isn't part of some grand conspiracy. This is politicians universally abandoning all care or concern for long-term, complicated issues of governance, like the fine balance between open democracy versus public safety.
That doesn't make for good TV, so nobody cares about it anymore. It's all about the next 30 second sound bite -- the next ad-nausea narration of some preconceived echo-chamber political narrative about how the other guy is bad.
"We need to do whatever is necessary to keep Americans safe."
That's all you gotta say. Nobody is going to ask where the limit is, what that practically means, who enforces it, what the law should be, or any of that. Nobody has the patience or intellectual motivation to care anymore. Why even debate it? The other guy's just going to be universally wrong anyway. My favorite pundit told me so.
All you need to do to be a successful politician these days is get your 4-5 talking points in order, repeat them faithfully to the people who already believe them, and avoid any major reality show-style sex scandals or public gaffes while you do it. As long as you can pull that off through each 24-hour news cycle, you're home free and set for life.
No long-term conspiracy required. Just self-interested, short-sighted stupidity, and a public that doesn't demand anything more.
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