[Dev] Weakness System And Moving Forward

What would be hard, in your opinion? Most shout groups I join, they finish capping lights around 50% on higher tier VW mobs and they just have to kill it the rest of the way. The fights aren't exactly push overs, you still need people paying attention etc. Are you asking for fights AV hard pre lvl cap break?

Honestly, with stronger atmacites, VW is actually getting easier and easier each update.

No, fights that are on any level close to something pre-level cap would be handy though. The fact that you got it to 50% just proccing should be enough evidence to support the fact that they're not difficult. A couple of PLDs, a stunner, one or two healers and a small amount of DDs with atmacites and perhaps COR rolls are all you need for most any voidwatch NM.

My ragtag group of 12-15 people a night manages to kill anything that I throw them at. May take a couple of tries on some NMs, but they go down. They are not masters of the attention span.

Best news, all day.

Which would be any NM pre cap too besides AV and PW.

Personally I would like to see more battles in the class of AV and PW (pre level cap raise and pre PD cheat). I like just thinking about the fights and how complex they are, rather than.... well a crab with really high def that aoe poisons.

Difference being they didn't have convoluted and unnecessary systems in place to try to force diversity of jobs brought to the event. While there are more elegant solutions to this problem, I can understand SE's usage of a proc system to help further the amount of different jobs brought to a VW event.

However, this does not work entirely. How many people bring a BST? Who's going to bring SCH after this next update? DRK? Pointless to bring any of those and some other jobs to VW when others can fill their roles and maintain most of their procs while taking up only one slot in an alliance.

Cutting down on the amount of procs necessary will not fix this, no, however having all of the procs that we have right now is not necessary to begin with.

More variable battle strategies than "put on a fanatic's and zerg it down" would be very nice.

So you want fights that are near impossible to beat because they relay on some really stupid gimmick that no one ever really figured out?

Why exactly wouldnt you bring a DRK? Good spread of procs (magic and ws) and a good DD in its own right.

lol, PW wasn't like that. AV didn't have to be either I'm not sure what SE was thinking.

You're referring to two different extremes, either too easy with a system that tries to force you to bring more jobs than you can fit into an alliance, or a fight that's near impossible because of being too cryptic. There's a middle ground too.

Also, why bring a DRK for decent damage and magic/WS procs when a WAR can cover most of the WSs that a DRK can use and deal more damage than said DRK while a BLM can fill its functions and maintain most procs as well?

DRK could have a place if a slot is open, don't get me wrong, but the proc system doesn't come close to causing that. If the DRK wasn't capable of putting out the damage that it can, it would not be worth the slot.

You don't need more jobs than you can fit into an alliance. The most important light is Red which you can cap pretty easily with BLM and few others. I don't see how the current VW proc system is so terrible, especially with the win proc coming out soon. Old school fights locked out a lot of jobs compared to now.

Like what? You just said yourself that you can cap the only important light with a BLM and a few others (few others being WAR, a NIN, and a BLU really), how does that fix people not bringing more jobs than they usually would?

That system meaning voidwatch?

The proc system of voidwatch yes.

You're trying to say that the proc system causes people to bring more jobs to the event, then you say that the event can be completed with only a few different jobs. Which is it? You can't have both.

Yes it does cause them to bring different jobs. You can cap lights with only a few jobs but why not add other varied jobs that can help you cap that light faster and kill the mob faster? It allows you the freedom to do so, where the old system the person would be a wasted slot compared to another DD that could out perform them. In the current system everyone can contribute with unique procs to speed things up while performing their primary job function.

And yet you don't specifically need those jobs.

No but there is no harm in bringing them, in fact it can actually speed things up if the required proc is theirs. In the old system, having them there is actually causing the group to kill slower.

Right, not arguing that. As I said, bring the DRK if you have a spot for them. But you do not need the DRK to succeed in the fight.

What would be a good battle strategy that utilizes all jobs, or a large amount of jobs per specific fights, in your opinion?

And you'll still bring WAR THF BLM WHM BRDS to events.

Personally I always have a DRK with me in VW. They can cover a lot of drk magic procs, and I'd want all magic procs for quicker red cap.

There's no way to incorporate a strategy that will utilize a wide variety of jobs. However, I proposed a more limited proc system plus difficult fights, not difficult fights without a proc system.

The most logical way to have more jobs at every fight would be balancing, but SE will never be capable of that.

I personally like the "weakness" system ... but it went too far in Voidwatch. If S-E does continue to use it, I'd prefer if the possibilities for a "!!" were broader than the Abyssea set, but much more narrow than the Voidwatch set.

This. It was acceptable in Abyssea, but went overboard in Voidwatch. It only aims to get worse as they seem to be adding procs with each new tier.


Sad part is, FFXIV has a similar system in which you get a personal loot chest at the end of a dungeon. Difference is, FFXIV's development team is adding the ability to give items in your chest to other people. FFXI's dev team said they would not do this.

Then you run into the problem of only needing an extreme few of jobs, Abyssea NIN MNK BLM WHM THF(if at all) WAR. How does it go too far in Voidwatch if, like we said, you don't *need* to incorporate all the jobs into the ally to get max light? I also fail to see how current Voidwatch NMs are not a challenge at all, I think that is extremely exaggerated. They still require decent players who know wtf.

Why is it necessary to have tier I~III magic on the proc list? Ichi spells, tier I and II -ga spells. Could go on. The way that they handled SMN, BST, and some JA procs is also incredibly questionable.

Why not? I thought it was kinda cool that we still need old spells and such, especially in the case of BLU. I liked how 1k needles has a use, but they took that out and now its just completely useless. BLMs using Ancient Magic and random spells, kinda reminded me of an old FF game lol.