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[Dev] Follow-Up on New BST Pets
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-12-05 19:47:17
Your above post is spot on Kalilla.
BST is only in the spotlight right now because of Dynamis. When all the bandwagon BSTs drop off, and the people that rage over competing against said bandwagon BSTs in Dynamis drop off, no one will be talking about it, again. BST isn't broken one way or the other, it's just a job that has never had much viable end-game content, and whatever brainless suggestions the Official Forums folks are coming up with are not going to benefit BST in that light, but rather get us nerfed in a place that will require tons more updates to rectify, and drastically change our role in the game.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-12-05 19:50:05
So because a job traditionally didn't have a place at endgame, it should always remain that way regardless of other jobs getting massive solo ability improvements that further encroach on the one niche BST has?
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-12-05 19:51:48
Nah, I actually agree with your standpoint entirely Sparthosx. I almost went back and edited that in, but decided against it.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-05 19:53:01
In my opinion, no changes need to be made. Pretty sure most of the QQing BSTs are the ones that have only played inside abyssea, and get a serious wake-up call when they aren't using Ducal Guard and/or Mounted Champion. Drastic gear changes, strategy, and timing become paramount to being even a mediocre BST outside of Abyssea on difficult content.
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By jemster40 2011-12-05 19:54:17
The people who think Bst is useless and broken are probably the ones who have a higher expectation of the job.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14,552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-12-05 19:55:39
Do you think BST needs a huge overhaul to be involved in end-game content?
Bahamut.Zangada
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bahamut.Zangada 2011-12-05 19:59:09
Do you think BST needs a huge overhaul to be involved in end-game content?
Peoples mentality of bsts needs to, most think bst is "useless". We cant really zerg but any real bst can keep dmg with most meele.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 157
By Asura.Bitesized 2011-12-05 20:02:18
I kinda miss charming mobs and throwing them at hard ***. But I already have little inventory left as it is without having to add a charm set so I'm not gonna get upset about that. I just hope the turtle is a nice tank pet.
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:02:27
HOnestly? no, my only real gripe is how long it takes to heal a pet using Reward when fighting a mob in say abyssea. Some of them hit like run away dump trucks and while a pet can take emnity off of you, it starts losing hp fast when the mob starts spamming it's TP move
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-12-05 20:03:36
In my opinion, no changes need to be made. Pretty sure most of the QQing BSTs are the ones that have only played inside abyssea, and get a serious wake-up call when they aren't using Ducal Guard and/or Mounted Champion. Drastic gear changes, strategy, and timing become paramount to being even a mediocre BST outside of Abyssea on difficult content.
Educate me on the ways of being useful at NMs like Pil, Aello or Akvan.
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:03:59
I like Bst, i can go just about anywhere alone and do just fine with a jug pet.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-05 20:04:27
Do you think BST needs a huge overhaul to be involved in end-game content? I just think expectations are too high. BST is still insane in numbers. With a 4 BST rotation each pet only has to survive for one minute, meaning you could kill pretty much anything without a time limit.
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:05:44
I agree Skadoosh, an all BST party is unstoppable too
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-12-05 20:07:36
A group of BLU are insane in numbers, I fail to see the point.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-05 20:09:07
just sounds like ur jealous of blu >.>
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:10:59
Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10,394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-12-05 20:11:53
More like I'm a BLU main that has always been fond of BST.
I see what both jobs bring to the table and they are comparable in certain aspects yet BLU continues to get more tools while SE wags a finger at BST with a stern "no, its broken" at every turn.
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-12-05 20:13:14
Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do.
Go into detail about what BST can do in Voidwatch or Walk of Echoes or any recent endgame designed for level 95, soon to be lvl99.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14,552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-12-05 20:13:37
Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do. How can that happen without updates saying that BST is getting these upgrades to make them stronger and more valuable in end-game content?
If people keep thinking the same way it won't ever change unless something like that happens where it is obvious that BST gets a huge change and then people want to use it for their groups.
I don't think BST needs it to do it's job, I think it needs it so people will want them.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-05 20:13:53
im pretty sure the mindset on end-game atm is "If your not a ukkon war then you are gimp and will only hinder our fight."
But on a serious note... a mage based pet or even a ranger pet would be nice for bst... just sayin
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-05 20:15:42
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do.
Go into detail about what BST can do in Voidwatch or Walk of Echoes or any recent endgame designed for level 95, soon to be lvl99.
Well with SE's "Leveling is so lol now you can has multiple jobs." i dont think they are in a hurry to fix 1 jobs end-game issues. when said players can forgo going beasty and go as a useful job. hence you being blu... but like a said a ranger or mage pet would be nifty for end-game
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-12-05 20:18:14
BST takes on Walk of Echoes like a champ. It just doesn't have an endless, costless, supply of pets like SMN does.
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:19:18
Some how i'm getting the mentality that a BST should solo ANYTHING in places like Voidwatch. That's not what i'm sayin at all, in any endgame type event (normally consisting of a party or alliance of players, NOT just the 1 BST) a bst can do more than just call a pet to look pretty.
By jemster40 2011-12-05 20:21:10
Not to mention that bst pets are stronger than smn pets too
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-05 20:21:31
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do.
Go into detail about what BST can do in Voidwatch or Walk of Echoes or any recent endgame designed for level 95, soon to be lvl99. Obvious ***, like wear pet stats, use Monster Gloves, cap reward, make MDB axes, merit the right things. Willing to bet 99% of BSTs don't have -42% PDT, and wear irrelevant misc. gear like Rajas ring when pet fighting.
Bahamut.Zangada
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bahamut.Zangada 2011-12-05 20:27:27
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Many people assume there is no place in any endgame type events for BST, sure they have their uses and abilities in some situations. But they should not be counted out of endgame events because of what non-bst players think they can or can't do.
Go into detail about what BST can do in Voidwatch or Walk of Echoes or any recent endgame designed for level 95, soon to be lvl99. Obvious ***, like wear pet stats, use Monster Gloves, cap reward, make MDB axes, merit the right things. Willing to bet 99% of BSTs don't have -42% PDT, and wear irrelevant misc. gear like Rajas ring when pet fighting.
Unless ur a mage or tank all u do in VW is stand around waiting to proc, so having a bst only adds 1 more way to proc.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-12-05 20:29:04
Or hold a mob. You'd be surprised how long a BST can stall in VW, but that's really only for failgroups.
Bismarck.Rosalee
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 285
By Bismarck.Rosalee 2011-12-05 21:10:26
The big problem with the call beast timer really isn't that people can't swap pets for healthy ones quickly--the problem is actually with the voidwatch system demanding that beastmasters carry 20 different kinds of pets and swap between them for every proc.
this is why i despise playing bst in voidwatch. I don't have room for that junk.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-05 21:17:49
I have one more thing to address. I see this every single day, and I think it might explain why BST has such a poor reputation in endgame. A BST wearing the following joins your party, say for VW.
For some reason, this BST won't be subject to any criticism. They might even be praised for having a 90 empyrean and such nice gear. However, with regard to its pet, this BST is essentially naked. None of his gear is relevant for what he is doing, and yet its the norm, maybe even better than the norm to show up wearing this garbage? You wouldn't take a naked WAR or SMN, why is it ok for BST to be naked?
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Updated 12/05/11:
12-05-2011 05:10 PM | Rukkirii | Community Rep |  |
| Quote: Why is the development team heading in the direction where BST only use jug pets? Recent content contains a lot of areas with monsters that cannot be charmed as well as confrontations where summoned pets will be dismissed upon entry. Since it would be difficult for beastmasters to perform with only their Charm ability, we wanted to make adjustments to add familiars and make it so they can select their pets based on the situation.
Of course, you will still be able to use monsters that were charmable up to now since they are still roaming the lands of Vana'diel.
Quote: Can the devs. make it easier to change between different pets? Making it easier to change pets means a reduction in the call beast ability's duration, so this would be a difficult problem.
From the beginning, familiar pets have had strong attacks and durability, so being able to constantly summon these pets would make it so a variety of monsters could be defeated with only a pet. Also, depending on the situation, if beastmasters were able to constantly change pets, it would make it possible for them to do everything.
Quote: We would like more damage dealing pets, instead of tanking pets, so that they can be more useful in parties. When adding new pets, we design them by adding a special feature to them such as high attack or high defense. In the future we will be adding more pets, and among these new ones there will be an opportunity to introduce some strong attacking pets. |
Updated 11/30/11:
11-30-2011 06:27 PM | Rukkirii | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings and thank you for your patience! We received some information regarding your feedback that is being discussed here, so I wanted to make sure you all saw it.
Quote: The frog pet will be useless for damage. If it’s a mascot pet, it should be able to be called in town. The intention of adding the toad to beastmaster’s pet array was to include a fun, mascot-type pet that you could walk around with. Due to this, its fighting proficiency has been set low.
I understand everyone’s requests to make it possible to call this pet in towns, but currently if it is not a specially created battle area, such as Al Zhabi, it is not possible for monsters to enter. In the case that we allowed players to summon their pets within towns, the number of characters in these areas would increase significantly and would exacerbate congestion problems, similar to what Port Jeuno has been experiencing. For this reason, calling pets within towns is not easy and we appreciate your understanding on this.
Quote: Why can’t Apkallu receive Yawn when Nazuna has Sheep Song and doesn't require having a player face it in order to use? Also, why is Frigid Shuffle considered overpowered when there are other classes and pets that can use Paralyze (Soporific). We decided to cut the abilities that inflict status ailments to enemies due to the fact that we have armed Apkallu with high HP, Subtle Blow, Counter, Store TP, and a special form of attacking.
If you are looking to paralyze your opponent, please consider using the Coeurl familiar. (The Dev. Team would like beastmasters to select their pets based on the situation and battle strategy.)
Quote: Why is Nihility Song considered overpowered when PUP automatons have a Dispel attachment, which does not cost TP and has no Ready timer. I am upset that Jetattura is being removed. I do not feel that these abilities are overpowered and wish the Dev. team would just adjust the abilities instead. The opinion that these abilities are not overpowered is a subjective take on the situation. In order for the Dev. Team to look into this they would like more specific evidence. The reasoning behind calling it overpowered is because Hippogryphs are already armed with a high rate of evasion, triple attack, and very powerful special attacks. Adding abilities that inflict Dispel and Terror would make them too powerful.
In the case you would like to use Dispel, we recommended using the Eft familiar.
Quote: I’d like the Adamantoise pet to have Headbutt to help with being a tanking pet, since it seems like that is this pet's purpose. We are planning to adjust Adamantoise a bit more. Though we will not be adding Head Butt, we are looking to increase the power of Aqua Breath a bit.
Quote: Since there is only one level 96+ jug pet scheduled for implementation, does that mean we will be able to tame and charm pets in upcoming content? As written in the job adjustment manifesto, the focus of adjustments currently will revolve around familiar pets. |
11-22-2011 06:14 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Just wanted to pass along some additional information on the new familiars.
Quote: Toad: Level 23. There are no abilities that can be used. Seems like the attack delay is the same as a level 76+ pet, making me think the real level is around 75. As we have mentioned previously, when considering that this pet is supposed to just be a mascot-type pet, it’s planned to be the cheapest of all familiars. Following this, we feel like the current stats are not really appropriate.
Quote: Apkallu: Level 76, monk type. Only able to use Beak Lunge and Wing Slap. I would really have liked to use Yawn and Frigid Shuffle. Pretty disappointed as this is the first bird type pet. Are you making adjustments and planning to add this later? We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).
With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.
Quote: Hippogryph: Level 86, thief type. Triple Attack activates as normal. Able to use Jettatura, Choke Breath, Back Heel, and Fantod. Really happy with the stats, but disappointing that they can’t use the Dispel ability, Nihility Song. I feel like the regular attacks powered up by Fantod are stronger than Back Heel. Was this adjusted making it weaker? Also it shows that Back Heel requires one charge, but it actually takes two. Is this a test server bug? Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.
Quote: Adamantoise: Level 96, high attack power, high defense, and slow. Definitely a turtle. Can use three abilities: Harden Shell, Turtle Stomp, and Aqua Breath. Does not have access to Head Butt, Tortoise Song, or Earth Breath. Turtle Stomp is just a normal physical weapon skill. Was it only certain NMs that had the added effect of defense down? Breath is capped at 400. While you can’t use the abilities for kited battles, seems like this guy makes a good tank. We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath. |
lol@"...high attack power, high defense, and slow. Definitely a turtle."
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