Best Weapons (Ranked)
Best Weapons (Ranked)
Arguing with devil's proof is pointless.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
He's technically right, all you're saying is a hypothesis; while that hypothesis is very likely correct, 3 minutes of OA3 + a much lower delay between attack rounds + Stringing Pummel, on top of the somewhat minimal impact of the increase to Automaton damage being greater than 45% (?) ODD + Victory Smite, it's not "provable".
I appreciate the support, but its unnecessary. I won't sit here and attempt a rational debate with people resorting to entirely off-base ad hominem for lack of any real knowledge of the subject matter.
bare bones enough for you?
Semantics. Again, while very likely, it's still a hypothesis that remains to be tested. You can say it's better, and it more than likely is, but there is no hard evidence to suggest it. I may be misinterpreting kap's argument, but that's pretty much all I saw him say.
You can say with some mathematical certainty and through common sense that KKK > Vere, but you cannot say with 100% foolsproof, insurmountable certainty that it's the case.
I don't think you understand the argument at all.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I didn't know you could test hth properties with a scythe.
Why would that matter, a mythic is a mythic. Plus, it's better to assume it doesn't work on H2H then base your calculations on the fact that it does (when it hasn't been proven to do so). Like Dodu's been saying, lax information.
I'm assuming Kap is talking about the OA3 on weaponskills while Serj is talking about OA3 on main/offhands which is silly since it would be rather difficult to test an offhand with a Scythe, thus one should be able to make the assumption that the piece of data in question can be absconded.
I was joking. They quoted my entire post, was being sarcastic. Whatever.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
He's technically right, all you're saying is a hypothesis; while that hypothesis is very likely correct, 3 minutes of OA3 + a much lower delay between attack rounds + Stringing Pummel, on top of the somewhat minimal impact of the increase to Automaton damage being greater than 45% (?) ODD + Victory Smite, it's not "provable".
I appreciate the support, but its unnecessary. I won't sit here and attempt a rational debate with people resorting to entirely off-base ad hominem for lack of any real knowledge of the subject matter.
bare bones enough for you?
Semantics. Again, while very likely, it's still a hypothesis that remains to be tested. You can say it's better, and it more than likely is, but there is no hard evidence to suggest it. I may be misinterpreting kap's argument, but that's pretty much all I saw him say.
You can say with some mathematical certainty and through common sense that KKK > Vere, but you cannot say with 100% foolsproof, insurmountable certainty that it's the case.
I don't think you understand the argument at all.
Which is still circumstantial and cannot be physically proven.
While it is likely, it cannot be physically proven. Scientific method. Deliver evidence and suddenly it's 100%. I'm not sure if there's any real argument toward the validity of KKK being superior to Vere.
Keep in mind Dodu made the assertion that Verethragna would outparse Kenkonken in VW situations because VS > SP. His baseless assertion sparked the comparison between VS and SP.
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
In typical VW farming, damage is done in spurts, hardly in steady proportions. This, again, favors Verethragna.
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Keep in mind Dodu made the assertion that Verethragna would outparse Kenkonken in VW situations because VS > SP. His baseless assertion sparked the comparison between VS and SP.
Idk, I probably skimmed over that part. If that's the case idk man :\
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Which is still circumstantial and cannot be physically proven.
While it is likely, it cannot be physically proven. Scientific method.
While it is likely, it cannot be physically proven. Scientific method.
Err i could be wrong here but im pretty sure Kirschy posted that the mythic oat 2-3 does affect ws not doesn't.
[+]
Also, here, implies that OA2-3 does proc on ws, but like previous OAT, can only happen once.
Where's your proof otherwise?
Where's your proof otherwise?
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Keep in mind Dodu made the assertion that Verethragna would outparse Kenkonken in VW situations because VS > SP. His baseless assertion sparked the comparison between VS and SP.
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
In typical VW farming, damage is done in spurts, hardly in steady proportions. This, again, favors Verethragna.
Beg your pardon? I said it was an advantage. I've made no definitive statements, because we do not know how the weapon works.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
ie:
weapon attack values
ws values
Vere odd values
15% increase in ws
note im just comparing the attack, weight (ignoring martial arts boost), ws strength and odd values.
@Minjo: And any argument made to the contrary is met with that exact sentiment. If you're going to argue in theory, prepare to defend in theory, instead of falling back on pseudo intellectual stone-walling.
stirring the pot, just to stir~ As always.
[+]
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
ODD only works on one hand as well for H2H.
Did I say otherwise? All those effects on mythic/relic/emp only apply to the offhand (mainhand) hits, which you only get 1 of per attack round.
OA2-3 still applies to ws on mythic, which is pretty damn nice.
No it doesn't. Kirschy proved that incorrect with Liberator at the beginning of 95 cap.
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I didn't know you could test hth properties with a scythe.
Why would that matter, a mythic is a mythic. Plus, it's better to assume it doesn't work on H2H then base your calculations on the fact that it does (when it hasn't been proven to do so). Like Dodu's been saying, lax information.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I didn't know you could test hth properties with a scythe.
Why would that matter, a mythic is a mythic. Plus, it's better to assume it doesn't work on H2H then base your calculations on the fact that it does (when it hasn't been proven to do so). Like Dodu's been saying, lax information.
I'm assuming Kap is talking about the OA3 on weaponskills while Serj is talking about OA3 on main/offhands which is silly since it would be rather difficult to test an offhand with a Scythe, thus one should be able to make the assumption that the piece of data in question can be absconded.
-------------------
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Also, here, implies that OA2-3 does proc on ws, but like previous OAT, can only happen once.
Where's your proof otherwise?
Where's your proof otherwise?
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I'm waiting.
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I'm waiting.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
ie:
weapon attack values
ws values
Vere odd values
15% increase in ws
note im just comparing the attack, weight (ignoring martial arts boost), ws strength and odd values.
Okay, I'm not arguing the validity of the mathematics, simply that we haven't got any physical evidence. I'm not against the idea that KKK are superior to Verethragna in most situations.
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
ODD only works on one hand as well for H2H.
Did I say otherwise? All those effects on mythic/relic/emp only apply to the offhand (mainhand) hits, which you only get 1 of per attack round.
OA2-3 still applies to ws on mythic, which is pretty damn nice.
No it doesn't. Kirschy proved that incorrect with Liberator at the beginning of 95 cap.
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I didn't know you could test hth properties with a scythe.
Why would that matter, a mythic is a mythic. Plus, it's better to assume it doesn't work on H2H then base your calculations on the fact that it does (when it hasn't been proven to do so). Like Dodu's been saying, lax information.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I didn't know you could test hth properties with a scythe.
Why would that matter, a mythic is a mythic. Plus, it's better to assume it doesn't work on H2H then base your calculations on the fact that it does (when it hasn't been proven to do so). Like Dodu's been saying, lax information.
I'm assuming Kap is talking about the OA3 on weaponskills while Serj is talking about OA3 on main/offhands which is silly since it would be rather difficult to test an offhand with a Scythe, thus one should be able to make the assumption that the piece of data in question can be absconded.
-------------------
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Also, here, implies that OA2-3 does proc on ws, but like previous OAT, can only happen once.
Where's your proof otherwise?
Where's your proof otherwise?
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I'm waiting.
Bahamut.Serj said: »
I'm waiting.
I can't answer that sir.
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
@Minjo: And any argument made to the contrary is met with that exact sentiment. If you're going to argue in theory, prepare to defend in theory, instead of falling back on pseudo intellectual stone-walling.
Can you read? I've made no argument to the contrary. I've made no argument to any way. I've stated advantages and disadvantages, and concluded that no definitive decision can be made without additional information. My perception of the known technical aspects lead me towards Verethragna winning in typical cases, but its nothing I'm prepared to make any type of blanket statement about, because I don't posses the information necessary to do so.
It astounds me that you all have the audacity to refer to me as a troll so often.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
It's situational. Many of the Mythics pull ahead of their relic counterparts if you can assume constant AM3 usage.
In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that every melee mythic is superior to the relic and empyrean option if you can assume constant AM3. The viability of maintaining constant AM3 is what kills mythics, because many of them are pretty mediocre weapons if you don't have AM3 active.
In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that every melee mythic is superior to the relic and empyrean option if you can assume constant AM3. The viability of maintaining constant AM3 is what kills mythics, because many of them are pretty mediocre weapons if you don't have AM3 active.
^
This is actually the post you were looking for, probably.
[+]
Yeah, that's fine. No proof is no proof, but based on current information (Which is a good chunk), we can make an educated guess. A hypothesis to be proved valid or invalid when data presents itself. Last I heard, there was no definitive evidence about Ryunohinge, yet it is the supposed best damage dealing weapon in the game.
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
It astounds me that you all have the audacity to refer to me as a troll so often.
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Yeah, that's fine. No proof is no proof, but based on current information (Which is a good chunk), we can make an educated guess. A hypothesis to be proved valid or invalid when data presents itself. Last I heard, there was no definitive evidence about Ryunohinge, yet it is the supposed best damage dealing weapon in the game.
Which is what I'm saying. I do believe the difference here is that Ryunohige does have data out there for it. I'll try to find some. If there isn't any I'll retract my statement.
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
@Minjo: And any argument made to the contrary is met with that exact sentiment. If you're going to argue in theory, prepare to defend in theory, instead of falling back on pseudo intellectual stone-walling.
Can you read? I've made no argument to the contrary. I've made no argument to any way. I've stated advantages and disadvantages, and concluded that no definitive decision can be made without additional information. My perception of the known technical aspects lead me towards Verethragna winning in typical cases, but its nothing I'm prepared to make any type of blanket statement about, because I don't posses the information necessary to do so.
It astounds me that you all have the audacity to refer to me as a troll so often.
You're stating information that has been proven otherwise without quoting any source or testing on what has been said. It especially goes against something that has been agreed upon and taken as basic information.
Sylph.Kimble said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
@Minjo: And any argument made to the contrary is met with that exact sentiment. If you're going to argue in theory, prepare to defend in theory, instead of falling back on pseudo intellectual stone-walling.
Can you read? I've made no argument to the contrary. I've made no argument to any way. I've stated advantages and disadvantages, and concluded that no definitive decision can be made without additional information. My perception of the known technical aspects lead me towards Verethragna winning in typical cases, but its nothing I'm prepared to make any type of blanket statement about, because I don't posses the information necessary to do so.
It astounds me that you all have the audacity to refer to me as a troll so often.
You're stating information that has been proven otherwise without quoting any source or testing on what has been said. It especially goes against something that has been agreed upon and taken as basic information.
I reject the idea of things that have been "agreed upon" without rigorous, formal testing. Argument from authority and tradition are fallacies for a reason.
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