indeed, the public needs a ruling class however I disagree with who rules us (aka the current)
Some of the wealthy understand that they need us, however not all do.
Modern day aristocracy, ironic in a "democracy" huh?
Occupy Wall Street Protests
Occupy Wall Street Protests
The way this country was originally designed was actually fairly decent.
A representative democracy where we actually elect officials that truly represent the needs and wants of the people that elected them.
But, seeing it in practice, it simply will not work in real life. Greed and corruption have ruled our government from nearly the start.
If this country and its place in the world are to be salvaged, if our way of life is to be saved, this system has to be torn down to its foundation and rebuilt. The current system is broken beyond repair and is not able to adjust to the rapid tech changes that we are experiencing.
The question is, how far do we have to fall, and what has to happen before the public forces this to happen?
A representative democracy where we actually elect officials that truly represent the needs and wants of the people that elected them.
But, seeing it in practice, it simply will not work in real life. Greed and corruption have ruled our government from nearly the start.
If this country and its place in the world are to be salvaged, if our way of life is to be saved, this system has to be torn down to its foundation and rebuilt. The current system is broken beyond repair and is not able to adjust to the rapid tech changes that we are experiencing.
The question is, how far do we have to fall, and what has to happen before the public forces this to happen?
I really, really enjoy watching a good riot on television. The billy clubs, the tear gas, the people crying etc. Even when it's people I know and like and agree with I cheer when the cops club them and throw them into the back of the van or hose them down with industrial strength mace. I like when the reporters and cameramen get caught in the crossfire.
Sweet sweet chaos, how I missed you while you were resting. Bring me fires and rocks and bottles. Your violence is best served in HD with cold beer and potato chips, amen.
Sweet sweet chaos, how I missed you while you were resting. Bring me fires and rocks and bottles. Your violence is best served in HD with cold beer and potato chips, amen.
Protest going on right outside my building atm and we had a fairly large one last night too. Come in and talking to one of my co-workers on the elvator ride up and hes calling them stupid because "banks are going to do whatever they want whether you scream at them or not". Interesting to hear that response. As I don't really like to get into stuff like this at the office I just replied "You'll never know unless you try". He kinda shrugged and we went our seperate ways as the we got off the elveator lol...
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Protest going on right outside my building atm and we had a fairly large one last night too. Come in and talking to one of my co-workers on the elvator ride up and hes calling them stupid because "banks are going to do whatever they want whether you scream at them or not". Interesting to hear that response. As I don't really like to get into stuff like this at the office I just replied "You'll never know unless you try". He kinda shrugged and we went our seperate ways as the we got off the elveator lol...
That is the exact attitude that allowed us to get to this point.
Corps cannot do what they want. If millions took on a single bank at once it would fall. People need to understand that collectively we have power over those that think they rule us.
It's frustrating to see so many people willing to blame the personal ideals of their neighbor instead of the actual culprits.
Your coworker renders himself helpless with his shortsightedness, as does about 90% of the rest of the country.
[+]
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: »
The Bush Tax Cuts should be put into paying the debt, plus less printing money is better as that will help the general public use credit instead of cash.
[+]
Wow, you guys are really out there, the world does not owe anyone a living, make your own. I'm giving this protest another week or so before the "oppressed" get so unruly that the police arrest them all. It's already started in Boston.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wow, you guys are really out there, the world does not owe anyone a living, make your own. I'm giving this protest another week or so before the "oppressed" get so unruly that the police arrest them all. It's already started in Boston.
[+]
Yeah because our success is 100% dependent on our efforts, right?
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wow, you guys are really out there, the world does not owe anyone a living, make your own. I'm giving this protest another week or so before the "oppressed" get so unruly that the police arrest them all. It's already started in Boston.
These protesters are the exact opposite of those involved in the revolutionary war. How can you be so thick?
Revolutionary protesters: Please stop taxing us without giving us fair representation in our government.
Occupy Wall st Protesters: Please tax other people and give us their money, also make them pay all our debt.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than that.
EDIT: oh and I'm not condemning them for standing up for something, I'm condemning what they are standing up for, pretty big difference.
Artemicion said: »
Yeah because our success is 100% dependent on our efforts, right?
It may not be 100% but it is AT LEAST 90%! Not only that, but that 90% it is the HIGHEST it has ever been in recorded history!! Seriously, I feel so bad for those who think otherwise. It is nothing more than propaganda design to keep you down.
I'm sorry, I should have rephrased, rather than giving fabricated percentages, I should have said majority. But do you honestly think the ratio between effort and success in this time is even remotely balanced?
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wow, you guys are really out there, the world does not owe anyone a living, make your own. I'm giving this protest another week or so before the "oppressed" get so unruly that the police arrest them all. It's already started in Boston.
We gave them billions to help them along and they gave us extra fees and more headaches to avoid losing revenue from regulations put into place to make things fairer for the consumer.
Edit: I guess major corporations are allowed to put their hands out and beg for money even though they helped cause the problem but if the people want something for nothing they are criminal!
Also, the goal is not to get something for nothing. It's for opportunity and change.
[+]
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
Caitsith.Sai said: »
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
No one is "ruled" by a corporation. You (like myself) exist in a free market, where we have numerous options to fulfill our various needs. Corporations offer numerous products they think will enhance our lives. If we don't like them as an entity or the services they provide, we can either find the products we're looking for elsewhere or choose to omit that product from our lives entirely. All the power these corporations have is given to them by the consumers of their products. If you don't like that some corporation is powerful don't give them any money, its that simple. If you don't like that someone else supposts them, well f*ck off, that isn't your business. Is the world suppose to function differently than this, please elaborate?
If we're talking about the big bailouts, I said before I have sympathy for those disgusted with them. We should have let most (if not all) of them fail, and let the free market come in and rebuild it from the bottom up. These people however, want their own bailout (in the form of free education, nullification of all debt, etc). All that stuff needs to come from somewhere, the OWS crowd wants it to come from the people on Wall St. If that means higher taxes that means more government. If that means more regulations that means more government.
EDIT: I also fail to understand that if the bailouts is the focus of this group, why isn't OWS down outside the White House? When you and some other guy are both competing for a job and the employer hands the job to the other guy, shouldn't your anger be towards the employer as opposed to the other guy getting the job?
Also, I seriously doubt that if you were to tally up the handouts and money given to (at least) 90% of these people down on Wall St (foodstamps, unemployment, disability, etc) they would easily be taking more out than they are paying in.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
No one is "ruled" by a corporation. You (like myself) exist in a free market, where we have numerous options to fulfill our various needs. Corporations offer numerous products they think will enhance our lives. If we don't like them as an entity or the services they provide, we can either find the products we're looking for elsewhere or choose to omit that product from our lives entirely. All the power these corporations have is given to them by the consumers of their products. If you don't like that some corporation is powerful don't give them any money, its that simple. If you don't like that someone else supposts them, well f*ck off, that isn't your business. Is the world suppose to function differently than this, please elaborate?
If we're talking about the big bailouts, I said before I have sympathy for those disgusted with them. We should have let most (if not all) of them fail, and let the free market come in and rebuild it from the bottom up. These people however, want their own bailout (in the form of free education, nullification of all debt, etc). All that stuff needs to come from somewhere, the OWS crowd wants it to come from the people on Wall St. If that means higher taxes that means more government. If that means more regulations that means more government.
EDIT: I also fail to understand that if the bailouts is the focus of this group, why isn't OWS down outside the White House? When you and some other guy are both competing for a job and the employer hands the job to the other guy, shouldn't your anger be towards the employer as opposed to the other guy getting the job?
Also, I seriously doubt that if you were to tally up the handouts and money given to (at least) 90% of these people down on Wall St (foodstamps, unemployment, disability, etc) they would easily be taking more out than they are paying in.
You contradicted yourself within your own post.
The very fact the bailouts happened showed there is no free market at work here. We set a precedent in '08 and that is if a company makes a bad decision, screws up big time and overall operates itself into the ground that the government will come to the rescue and save the company because the collateral damage makes it 'too big to fail'.
The guys at the top know this. They took the bailout money, shuffled it away and rewarded themselves on the back of the American taxpayer. To them, the whole affair was nothing but a minor inconvenience - the equivalent of a flat tire on a trip between two points.
Tell me, who's gone to jail for this historic screw up? Who has been held responsible? What stops this from happening again? Oh right, the lobbyists have been hard at work obstructing any attempt to prevent legislation from being passed.
People often say we're ruled by corporations because we have allowed them to control our representatives through lobbying, campaign contributions and perversions of our laws created for the people, not legal entities.
Who will our leaders be beholden to in this situation? Constituents who range from apathetic ('we can't do anything') to deluded ('nothing is wrong guys!') or the people handing them large bags of cash in exchange for their loyalties? I wager the latter and so do the corporations who sign the checks.
Further, larger corporations have been merging one after the other to the point where even if you're dissatisfied with them - guess what? They've probably gobbled up the competition. Look at the banks for an example.
Should be just let corporations do as they please? Hold us hostage within the country we supposedly are apart of? There has to be a balance and right now the scales are tipped unfairly in favor of the top 1%.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
The protesters are upset that they are taxed and ruled by a gov and corporations that they no longer have any influence on.
Seems pretty much the same to me.
You are also very willing to paint all these people with a very broad brush. Do you not understand that there are people there from all walks and political beliefs? Tea Party people, libs, cons, dems, pubs.
Is all your info from hannity and fox and friends? Have you been to a rally yourself and talked to all the different types of people there.
I'm surprised that your not supportive of a group that is rallying against the government and its corruption. Most hard line right wing folk tend to hate the gov.
No one is "ruled" by a corporation. You (like myself) exist in a free market, where we have numerous options to fulfill our various needs. Corporations offer numerous products they think will enhance our lives. If we don't like them as an entity or the services they provide, we can either find the products we're looking for elsewhere or choose to omit that product from our lives entirely. All the power these corporations have is given to them by the consumers of their products. If you don't like that some corporation is powerful don't give them any money, its that simple. If you don't like that someone else supposts them, well f*ck off, that isn't your business. Is the world suppose to function differently than this, please elaborate?
If we're talking about the big bailouts, I said before I have sympathy for those disgusted with them. We should have let most (if not all) of them fail, and let the free market come in and rebuild it from the bottom up. These people however, want their own bailout (in the form of free education, nullification of all debt, etc). All that stuff needs to come from somewhere, the OWS crowd wants it to come from the people on Wall St. If that means higher taxes that means more government. If that means more regulations that means more government.
EDIT: I also fail to understand that if the bailouts is the focus of this group, why isn't OWS down outside the White House? When you and some other guy are both competing for a job and the employer hands the job to the other guy, shouldn't your anger be towards the employer as opposed to the other guy getting the job?
Also, I seriously doubt that if you were to tally up the handouts and money given to (at least) 90% of these people down on Wall St (foodstamps, unemployment, disability, etc) they would easily be taking more out than they are paying in.
You contradicted yourself within your own post.
The very fact the bailouts happened showed there is no free market at work here. We set a precedent in '08 and that is if a company makes a bad decision, screws up big time and overall operates itself into the ground that the government will come to the rescue and save the company because the collateral damage makes it 'too big to fail'.
The guys at the top know this. They took the bailout money, shuffled it away and rewarded themselves on the back of the American taxpayer. To them, the whole affair was nothing but a minor inconvenience - the equivalent of a flat tire on a trip between two points.
Tell me, who's gone to jail for this historic screw up? Who has been held responsible? What stops this from happening again? Oh right, the lobbyists have been hard at work obstructing any attempt to prevent legislation from being passed.
People often say we're ruled by corporations because we have allowed them to control our representatives through lobbying, campaign contributions and perversions of our laws created for the people, not legal entities.
Who will our leaders be beholden to in this situation? Constituents who range from apathetic ('we can't do anything') to deluded ('nothing is wrong guys!') or the people handing them large bags of cash in exchange for their loyalties? I wager the latter and so do the corporations who sign the checks.
Further, larger corporations have been merging one after the other to the point where even if you're dissatisfied with them - guess what? They've probably gobbled up the competition. Look at the banks for an example.
Should be just let corporations do as they please? Hold us hostage within the country we supposedly are apart of? There has to be a balance and right now the scales are tipped unfairly in favor of the top 1%.
+1
The whole country is becoming like West Virgina was back when the coal companies enslaved their workforce with company issued tokens.
Once corps control the gov they control the dollar.
Once they control the value of currency we are fu**ed.
Inflation goes up > wages stay the same or decrease = hurray big business and everyone else can suck it.
[+]
Caitsith.Sai said: »
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
Did you know many early Americans didn't drink tea? They boiled the leaves and ate them with salt and butter...
http://books.google.com/books?id=s7eIZotqrWIC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=colonists+ate+tea+leaves&source=bl&ots=JU_1b3z6o4&sig=oDycHz5BQqOl1U8JXWaubGft60c&hl=en&ei=KrKUTvyvCqSqsQK5jPHvAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=colonists%20ate%20tea%20leaves&f=false
It really wasn't a tax that pushed these people over the edge, as is commonly taught in public and private schools.
Ever hear of the Quebec Act? That was the main reason for the war.
Imagine if your parents and grandparents had fled England to escape religious persecution at the hands of the Catholics. They taught you the Pope was the antichrist. They pointed out the Catholics tried to crush England by sending the Spanish Armada to destroy the Counter-Reformation in 1588 (only failed due to a terrible and unexpected storm) as well as attempting to assassinate King James I before the Bible which bears his name could be published (Gunpowder plot of 1605).
The Quebec Act was passed and gave the former French-Catholic colony of Quebec the land rights to what became Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, etc. Those who lived in the 13 colonies were forbidden to settle in those areas. The colonists saw they were being surrounded by Catholics on all sides.
Laugh all you want, but that's exactly how the majority of colonists viewed the Quebec Act.
There also used to be a religious test required to serve office in the 13 colonies, and Catholics were not allowed to serve public office unless they denounced the tenets of Catholicism.
Interestingly enough, the first Archbishop of the United States, John Carroll, donated the land where the US Capital was built, and built Georgetown University as well. It's possible Carroll's friendship with Benjamin Franklin and some of the other Founding Fathers is what influenced them to add the clause in the Bill of Rights about freedom of religion, as this allowed Catholics to serve public office without having to take a religious test.
Americans were largely against allowing Catholics to serve public office even as late as the 1950s. It was a big surprise to many political pundits when John F. Kennedy won the election.
Just thought I'd throw a little history out there for those who were never taught these things in school.
Shiva.Scar said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
You realize that the protesters vs the gov can be painted all sorts of ways right?
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
How about this. The American Revolution was based on anger that the colonies were being taxed and ruled by a crown that they had no influence on.
Did you know many early Americans didn't drink tea? They boiled the leaves and ate them with salt and butter...
http://books.google.com/books?id=s7eIZotqrWIC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=colonists+ate+tea+leaves&source=bl&ots=JU_1b3z6o4&sig=oDycHz5BQqOl1U8JXWaubGft60c&hl=en&ei=KrKUTvyvCqSqsQK5jPHvAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=colonists%20ate%20tea%20leaves&f=false
Ever hear of the Quebec Act? That was the main reason for the war.
Imagine if your parents and grandparents had fled England to escape religious persecution at the hands of the Catholics. They taught you the Pope was the antichrist. They pointed out the Catholics tried to crush England by sending the Spanish Armada to destroy the Counter-Reformation in 1588 (only failed due to a terrible and unexpected storm) as well as attempting to assassinate King James I before the Bible which bears his name could be published (Gunpowder plot of 1605).
The Quebec Act was passed and gave the former French-Catholic colony of Quebec the land rights to what became Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, etc. Those who lived in the 13 colonies were forbidden to settle in those areas. The colonists saw they were being surrounded by Catholics on all sides.
Laugh all you want, but that's exactly how the majority of colonists viewed the Quebec Act.
There also used to be a religious test to serve office in the 13 colonies, and Catholics were not allowed to serve public office unless they denounced the tenets of Catholicism.
Interestingly enough, the first Archbishop of the United States, John Carroll, donated the land where the US Capital was built, and built Georgetown University as well. It's possible Carroll's friendship with Benjamin Franklin and other of the early Founding Fathers is what influenced them to add the clause in the Bill of Rights about freedom of religion, as this allowed Catholics to serve public office without having to take a religious test.
Americans were largely against allowing Catholics to serve public office even as late as the 1950s. It was a big surprise to many political pundits when John F. Kennedy won the election.
Just thought I'd throw a little history out there for those who were never taught these things in school.
What this points out is exactly why JFK got so much crap during his campaign. Being catholic even at that time was cause for concern among various groups. Luckily for him he was able to turn the debates away from his religious beliefs and back to policy.
The idea that ones religion could ever determine whether or not someone could be elected to public office, or given a promotion for that matter, makes me sick. Can you say hypocritical much? Of course, that's not much different then the fact that in order to be elected to public office in the first place you need to have a significant amount of money to back you and your campaign (unless it's for local office instead of national), economic discrimination isn't much different then religious or racial discrimination >.>
It was a combination of all of the above that lead to the American revolution. The British tried to squeeze the colonists and they wound squeezing up just a bit too much and incited revolution.
It's a recurring theme throughout history.
But if some people are to be taken literally, the colonists were a bunch of whining hippie leftist crybabies.
It's a recurring theme throughout history.
But if some people are to be taken literally, the colonists were a bunch of whining hippie leftist crybabies.
@Sparthosx - Kinda funny that the people who change the status quo are usually considered "leftist" or "liberal" huh. Just in the last 100 years, the major protests that brought about women's rights, civil rights, the ending of the Vietnam war etc. were all lead by people who were demonized as being hippies, liberals, communists, socialists or whatever else.
Edit: Guess I could've just quoted it... oh well
Edit: Guess I could've just quoted it... oh well
Commie, leftist, liberal, socialist labels are just knee-jerk reactions to an upsetting of the status quo.
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
It's just a shame that their current proposed list of demands is completely asinine. :/
/facepalm
First of all, where do they expect the money for these demands to come from?
Quote:
Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.
I do like this, but for selfish reasons though. Not having a mortgage or a car payment sounds pretty nice! I don't know what the rest of you would do with your freed up cash. I'm thinking another European excursion! =)
Let's be honest, if this were to happen, they would only extend it to a portion of the population, and not the entire population. Middle-class will be forever ***.
money is just paper and ink isn't it?
the only reason why it has a value is because we are giving a value to it
the only reason why it has a value is because we are giving a value to it
Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.
Just like there are dumb people at Tea Party rallies, there are dumb people at OWS.
What's new?
Just like there are dumb people at Tea Party rallies, there are dumb people at OWS.
What's new?
well first they need demands.
and if they wanna do a signifacant change, then they need to point out what they want in the future.
A revolution without a plan for the structure after the revolution will lead back to the things before :x
and if they wanna do a signifacant change, then they need to point out what they want in the future.
A revolution without a plan for the structure after the revolution will lead back to the things before :x
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