i'm basically trying figure out a balance for wses Mandalic Stab (as a SA ws till rudras), DE, evis,aeol edge gear sets. That work for both in and out of abby and without maxing out invo with bunch non storable/muled augmented gear.
edit: also without spending millions and can be worked in reasonably to macro sets.
Data For Different Evis WS Sets.
Data for different Evis WS sets.
Lakshmi.Aanalaty said:
iirc its actually the opposite. Atheling is for the atk and eponas/brutal are fairly weak on WS (over time) compared to other pieces.
Quite some time back (not on this forum), I worked out how Brutal compares to a dex earring. It turned out that the 3 dex earring would avg higher evis over time than a brutal, but to be honest i really dont remember if I checked all SAWS/TAWS/SoloWS or just one of them. This was a loooong time ago, so probably needs to be double checked. But, going on that, 3dex>5%DA on WS, then 7dex would beat 3DA/3TA(equivalent to 9DA). 3dex>5DA then 7>9DA.
If i get some time i may rework this comparison out as I did it back at 75 and a lot has changed, but until i get around to it, im still leaning with raw stats over multi-atk gear (brutal/eponas). I will also probably add in rudras as it didnt even exist back then and i have personal interest in rudras :P
I'd like to see the math on this because the general consensus I see here is to keep Epona's and Brutal on for WS.
[+]
Ill have to math it out again as its certainly at the least dated and should be redone anyway. But the gist is that its a (in the case of brutal) a 5% chance to add ONE hit out of 6 (evis while /nin).
For simplilcity, lets say your main and offhand have the same damage (like 2xKilas). So a DA increases damage over 6hits by 16.7%. This happens 5% of the time. 5% of 16.7% is 0.8% damage increase over time. That is less than ONE %. That is a low target to beat for a stat piece of gear.
That is glossing over it very generally.
*It ignores the opportunity of a second DA
*It ignores triple procing 1st and thus negating the DA (8hit cap)
*it ignores the decreasing returns from additional DA/TA (the more you have, the less % damage increase adding more gives)
*ignores acc
*Will be an even smaller % of damage if stacked with SA/TA (while dex would get better with SA added)
among a few other minor factors.
When i get a chance ill try to iron out more exact numbers, but you can see that whatever the outcome, DA/TA gear doesnt exactly have OMGBBQ boosts to WS damage that most people think of when considering using it for WS gear. It mostly comes down to DA/TA only being able to trigger on the 1st hit and the offhand hit of a WS (none in between) so on a 6hit evis, you only get 2 shots at DA/TA gear going off. Toss in TA or DA on 1st hit cockblocking the second potential proc (8hit cap), acc issues, decresing returns on stacking more DA/TA and the major idea that ALL the ws it DOESNT proc on, you get zero damage. Then compare that to a minor boost that works on EVERY hit of EVERY WS (dex/str/atk) and its not hard for a stat that is always having an effect on every hit to pull ahead.
We are looking at tiny gains floating near 1% or less for most DA/TA gear. Dex/atk/str gear holds up really well to that.
For simplilcity, lets say your main and offhand have the same damage (like 2xKilas). So a DA increases damage over 6hits by 16.7%. This happens 5% of the time. 5% of 16.7% is 0.8% damage increase over time. That is less than ONE %. That is a low target to beat for a stat piece of gear.
That is glossing over it very generally.
*It ignores the opportunity of a second DA
*It ignores triple procing 1st and thus negating the DA (8hit cap)
*it ignores the decreasing returns from additional DA/TA (the more you have, the less % damage increase adding more gives)
*ignores acc
*Will be an even smaller % of damage if stacked with SA/TA (while dex would get better with SA added)
among a few other minor factors.
When i get a chance ill try to iron out more exact numbers, but you can see that whatever the outcome, DA/TA gear doesnt exactly have OMGBBQ boosts to WS damage that most people think of when considering using it for WS gear. It mostly comes down to DA/TA only being able to trigger on the 1st hit and the offhand hit of a WS (none in between) so on a 6hit evis, you only get 2 shots at DA/TA gear going off. Toss in TA or DA on 1st hit cockblocking the second potential proc (8hit cap), acc issues, decresing returns on stacking more DA/TA and the major idea that ALL the ws it DOESNT proc on, you get zero damage. Then compare that to a minor boost that works on EVERY hit of EVERY WS (dex/str/atk) and its not hard for a stat that is always having an effect on every hit to pull ahead.
We are looking at tiny gains floating near 1% or less for most DA/TA gear. Dex/atk/str gear holds up really well to that.
My set atm:
Never did 8k ws but I don't do 100 dmg one either ;p
I've got few things to change tho (like neck/belt/heca cap +1 I think)
I need to augment my heca gears >.<
Fusetto is with TP bonus +100
Working on twastar (goddamn nms >.<)
And I am 2 trials from finishing str kila.
Not so sure If I should use twilight or triplus
or do fustto + dex or str kila, oh well I need to download parser and try out >.<
EDIT: any other better feet? I hate lithe and I feel gimp using them >.<
Never did 8k ws but I don't do 100 dmg one either ;p
I've got few things to change tho (like neck/belt/heca cap +1 I think)
I need to augment my heca gears >.<
Fusetto is with TP bonus +100
Working on twastar (goddamn nms >.<)
And I am 2 trials from finishing str kila.
Not so sure If I should use twilight or triplus
or do fustto + dex or str kila, oh well I need to download parser and try out >.<
EDIT: any other better feet? I hate lithe and I feel gimp using them >.<
What is everyone's thoughts on Oneiros Helm? Currently I'm using Aias Bonnet so to substitute in Oneiros I'd be gaining 5 Dex and 3% increase to crit dmg in exchange for 8 STR and 5 acc.
Also, and maybe more importantly how should I gear the other slots, specifically the ring and ear slots? Since Oneiros gives -3% to TA/DA should I switch out the Brutal / Epona's for some +stats/attack/etc since they're not as potent? Or should I keep those pieces in to counter the -3% TA/DA and keep myself as positive in +TA/DA as possible?
And what changes if any would be needed for Rudra's?
Also, and maybe more importantly how should I gear the other slots, specifically the ring and ear slots? Since Oneiros gives -3% to TA/DA should I switch out the Brutal / Epona's for some +stats/attack/etc since they're not as potent? Or should I keep those pieces in to counter the -3% TA/DA and keep myself as positive in +TA/DA as possible?
And what changes if any would be needed for Rudra's?
Lakshmi.Aanalaty said:
Ill have to math it out again as its certainly at the least dated and should be redone anyway. But the gist is that its a (in the case of brutal) a 5% chance to add ONE hit out of 6 (evis while /nin).
Do you have a link to any test that show you can only add ONE DA proc into a WS ?
[+]
As i said in the earlier post, that was a generalization to get the point accross and ignored the chance for the second DA/TA to proc. I dont mean to imply you can only land one DA/TA per WS.
I can dig around and see if I can find the old tests showing you can only DA/TA on 2 hits (main+offhand) of a WS if thats what you mean. (Which makes some sense when you consider 2handers can only multi proc on the 1st 2 hits of any of their WS.)
These are seriously old tests so im not suprised if anyone that started playing in the last few years has no idea they exist. But they were very thorough and done well.
I can dig around and see if I can find the old tests showing you can only DA/TA on 2 hits (main+offhand) of a WS if thats what you mean. (Which makes some sense when you consider 2handers can only multi proc on the 1st 2 hits of any of their WS.)
These are seriously old tests so im not suprised if anyone that started playing in the last few years has no idea they exist. But they were very thorough and done well.
Hey, was wondering how you would rank these head pieces for Evis WS inside abyssea from best to worst.
Hecatomb Cap (not +1 or augmented)
Anwig Salade (DEX+4 Increases Critical Hit Damage (+2%) and AGI+4 Increases weapon skill damage (+2%))
Aias Bonnet
Hecatomb Cap (not +1 or augmented)
Anwig Salade (DEX+4 Increases Critical Hit Damage (+2%) and AGI+4 Increases weapon skill damage (+2%))
Aias Bonnet
Ragnarok.Ravant said: »
Hey, was wondering how you would rank these head pieces for Evis WS inside abyssea from best to worst.
Hecatomb Cap (not +1 or augmented)
Anwig Salade (DEX+4 Increases Critical Hit Damage (+2%) and AGI+4 Increases weapon skill damage (+2%))
Aias Bonnet
Hecatomb Cap (not +1 or augmented)
Anwig Salade (DEX+4 Increases Critical Hit Damage (+2%) and AGI+4 Increases weapon skill damage (+2%))
Aias Bonnet
Under those conditions I'm going to hazard Anwig > Aias > Hecatomb.
Aias only wins because the extra 3 STR doesn't match up vs. Aias 3 DEX. Augments would definitely push the Cap above Aias though.
I'm putting Anwig first under assumption that Abyssea crit rate makes the crit damage augments more valuable than 4 DEX and cruor buffs devalues the 8 STR. Outside Abyssea and with augments, I'd guess Anwig is beaten fairly easily by Hecatomb.
Necro Bump Detected!
[86 days between previous and next post]
Hey guys I'm a pretty big noob when it comes to Thf so instead of creating a new thread I'll just necrobump this for TP and WS advice :3
I don't use Thf for much other then Salvage and TH for Emp mobs but I would like to gear it to the best of my ability's any tips and suggestions you could throw my way It would be greatly appreciated! :3
TP:
I know +1 Legs... I'm lazy lol
Yataghan augmented with +6 Dmg and Crit hit Dmg
WS:
Evisceration mostly lol
Subligar augmented with +2% Crit hit rate Acc +6 and Evasion +5
*Anwig Salade augmented with +4 STR AGI +15 WS Acc and 2% WS Dmg
Other gear options I have: Aias Bonnet, Hecatomb Cap, Hecatomb Mitts +1 with +4% Crit hit dmg, Hectaomb Feet +1 augmented with +4 STR, Vulcan's Pearl ect ect ect
I don't use Thf for much other then Salvage and TH for Emp mobs but I would like to gear it to the best of my ability's any tips and suggestions you could throw my way It would be greatly appreciated! :3
TP:
I know +1 Legs... I'm lazy lol
Yataghan augmented with +6 Dmg and Crit hit Dmg
WS:
Evisceration mostly lol
Subligar augmented with +2% Crit hit rate Acc +6 and Evasion +5
*Anwig Salade augmented with +4 STR AGI +15 WS Acc and 2% WS Dmg
Other gear options I have: Aias Bonnet, Hecatomb Cap, Hecatomb Mitts +1 with +4% Crit hit dmg, Hectaomb Feet +1 augmented with +4 STR, Vulcan's Pearl ect ect ect
A bit overkill on the haste with your TP set.
I am?! whats the haste cap!? *Sarcasm*
I appreciate you pointing that out any other gear advice you can help me out with? lol
I appreciate you pointing that out any other gear advice you can help me out with? lol
Cuchulain's Belt probably beats Chiner's Belt but I haven't seen any real data on the triple attack damage enhancement.
Necro Bump Detected!
[62 days between previous and next post]
thoughts on Whirlwind Dirs (DEF: 50 STR +12 INT -12 Resist Vs. Fire +20 Double Attack +3%)for legs?
What about Ocelomehs headpiece of harness? Are they no good for a THF dex or WS set?
I tend to have slightly different setups for DEX, Evisceration(solo), AGI and Exenterator(Solo) and the Ocelomeh gear looks great to me.
Also the headpiece has haste +6% and Regen on it, so you keep the haste cap up and its a great tanking piece. Any reasons why people wouldn't use them?
I tend to have slightly different setups for DEX, Evisceration(solo), AGI and Exenterator(Solo) and the Ocelomeh gear looks great to me.
Also the headpiece has haste +6% and Regen on it, so you keep the haste cap up and its a great tanking piece. Any reasons why people wouldn't use them?
Xorn said: »
thoughts on Whirlwind Dirs (DEF: 50 STR +12 INT -12 Resist Vs. Fire +20 Double Attack +3%)for legs?
Good for Mercy Stroke, not going to beat N. Legs for Evisceration though.
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
What about Ocelomehs headpiece of harness? Are they no good for a THF dex or WS set?
I tend to have slightly different setups for DEX, Evisceration(solo), AGI and Exenterator(Solo) and the Ocelomeh gear looks great to me.
Also the headpiece has haste +6% and Regen on it, so you keep the haste cap up and its a great tanking piece. Any reasons why people wouldn't use them?
I tend to have slightly different setups for DEX, Evisceration(solo), AGI and Exenterator(Solo) and the Ocelomeh gear looks great to me.
Also the headpiece has haste +6% and Regen on it, so you keep the haste cap up and its a great tanking piece. Any reasons why people wouldn't use them?
These sets here were dated pre-VW. Ocelomeh probably wins for DEX based WS.
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