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Bring on the auto attack!
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23,653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-30 23:53:48
Akihiko.Matsui said: Hello adventurers of FFXIV! This is battle lead Akihiko Matsui.
I would like to take this moment to explain the current plans we have in place.
First off, once the future battle balance and battle system adjustments take place, we feel that the implementation of auto-attack is quite necessary. Please embrace this as just one of the many necessary revamps needed to create more interesting and strategy rich battles as well as solve the tediousness of having to spam a button.
With this said, I do not feel that the implementation of auto-attack will solve everything. In other threads there have been many topics coming up about what is going to happen to the stamina gauge and claim system, how classes should have unique qualities and stats, what’s going to happen with monsters, raid dungeons, equipment, etc. I have looked over all of the great number of elements and at the current stage feel that without implementing auto-attack that the future battle system would be impossible.
Compared to the FFXI auto-attack system, we are thinking about making the auto-attack system for FFXIV have a shorter attack delay. (This has been a heated debate on the forum, and having been lead of FFXI please forgive me for bringing it up as a point of comparison. There is no "better" or "worse" system.)
The objective here is not to lower the battle difficulty. The main objective here, when thinking about battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration, is instead of having to time regular attacks, we will be preparing situations that require proper timing of abilities, magic, and weapon skills. Following this, weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can’t win a fight just by using auto-attack.
Due to the fact we still have a lot of elements that need to be tested and looked into, it is difficult for me to tell you any more info in great detail, but if you give me some time I will do my best to share the information with you. Thank you!
One step toward fixing the awful battling pacing imo.
Also:
Akihiko.Matsui said: Hey everyone! Thanks for the huge amount of feedback!
I would like to explain two things.
The first is about the design choice regarding having an aggressive icon at all and the second is in regards to our plans to integrate an ON/OFF toggle for displayed UI elements.
First, as to the reason why we added the aggressive monster icon, for the upcoming battle fixes, we decided to display addition information necessary for battle strategy.
There are many aspects related to the upcoming battle fixes, but one example of how we are making adjustments that lead to more enjoyable gameplay is by showing information such as the strength of field monsters (their level), whether or not they are aggressive, and whether or not they will link. With this new information, players can make a decision whether they wish to fight these types of enemies and it also allows them to plan crowd control out ahead of time.
Due to the fact that a quick fix for this is quite difficult, we have been making adjustments in stages. We have discussions with Yoshida and the battle team about what kind of info should be shown and what should be masked and once we make a decision we have been implementing them.
The current aggressive icon and the upcoming enemy level display are only one part of the current stage of edits.
Next on the agenda is the ON/OFF display toggle.
The aggressive icon that was recently implemented was a bit of information we wanted players to be able to check easily that fits hand-in-hand with the future battle plans, and thus we released it as a full-time display feature. Originally we thought that the icon wasn’t something that needed to be easily turned on/off, but after seeing the current reactions and hearing all of your feedback, after long consideration we have decided to make it possible to toggle the display. We will also continue to make adjustments to display toggling and display methods for the information displays we have planned for the future.
I apologize for not going into more detail earlier, but hopefully now you can better see our reasoning for the implementation.
By Yves 2011-03-31 03:17:33
Yeah, seems like a good step. Personally, I have found that those who wish the battle to be more strategic can make it such, but only with higher level mobs. Aside from that, it's just a zergfest.
Really, if all they did was replace the BR system with SC it would be fine, imo.
Still, really cool to see them making adjustments and responding to feedback. Seems almost...not-SquareEnixie...?
[+]
Alexander.Garlend
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By Alexander.Garlend 2011-03-31 07:49:00
I'm glad there adding auto-attack alla-ffxi. I love ffxi's combat system. :)
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By Fenrir.Xeonerable 2011-03-31 10:00:20
Am I the only one that feels auto-attack isn't really needed?
By Izey 2011-03-31 10:32:34
Yves said: Yeah, seems like a good step. Personally, I have found that those who wish the battle to be more strategic can make it such, but only with higher level mobs. Aside from that, it's just a zergfest.
Really, if all they did was replace the BR system with SC it would be fine, imo.
Still, really cool to see them making adjustments and responding to feedback. Seems almost...not-SquareEnixie...?
I KNOW RIGHT o_O
I don't know who this guy is, but I like em =D
I'm gonna send em a fruit cake!
By Izey 2011-03-31 10:34:01
Fenrir.Xeonerable said: Am I the only one that feels auto-attack isn't really needed?
Maybe they should make it so you can toggle auto attack :D!
Personally.... I don't know .... Having to NOT-press regular attack over.. and over.. and over... seems kinda convenient so I can spend more time thinking about how and in what way/order I'm using other stuff.... well... idk... thats just me.
[+]
By Izey 2011-03-31 10:36:40
Izey said: Fenrir.Xeonerable said: Am I the only one that feels auto-attack isn't really needed?
Maybe they should make it so you can toggle auto attack :D!
Personally.... I don't know .... Having to NOT-press regular attack over.. and over.. and over... seems kinda convenient so I can spend more time thinking about how and in what way/order I'm using other stuff.... well... idk... thats just me.
I mean Final Fantasy is like Chest.. ish....(XI anyway), you kinda just try to make the right moves at the right time and let your chary worry about the dumb stuff that is always supposed to happen anyway.
Now I do believe we should be able to Toggle Auto-attack on and off.
Why? Because, like when your supposed to fight a NM with a Big group or something, and you know in FFXI they yell "TURN AROUND, DONT HIT, GONNA BIND/SLEEP!!!" Well, we should be able to just not press the regular attack button... but for things like EXP party and junk... I rather have auto attack... technically... I already have auto attack... I use a Lycosa.... but still.
By Eireamhon 2011-03-31 11:20:44
Fenrir.Xeonerable said: Am I the only one that feels auto-attack isn't really needed?
Well yes and no. I fell like Izey does; it's tidieous to have to hit 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 over and over again. Especially when you are mob grinding or lvling a new job. You already know on mobs you have battled before, how to kill them and what your limits are. There's nothing 'new' to try so I just want to kill it, get my drop/xp/sp and move to the next one. I think maybe a toggle feature would be nice to have to turn it on or off. I mean, you could in XI. We had to for all of our runs in Dynamis, or Sky yada yada for the above mentioned reason Izey gave as to not F up any sleep or binds and such.
[+]
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-31 12:47:36
The fact that I can talk whilst fighting now is a huge plus. Also the fact that non US and JP players suffered from network lag when having to spam one button again and again. If it doesn't detect the input fast enough it lags on screen and it's a pain.
[+]
By Eireamhon 2011-03-31 14:35:03
Oh the lag issue was awful but I noticed they did fix my biggest problem whilst spamming buttons; the action not finishing or allowing the next action/macro to begin.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-31 14:37:42
Eireamhon said: Oh the lag issue was awful but I noticed they did fix my biggest problem whilst spamming buttons; the action not finishing or allowing the next action/macro to begin.
With a 2mb internet connection and being in the UK at times it's almost unbearable :(
It's a pain when I'm getting 60fps+ but the network lag is so bad that it's impossible to queue attacks properly.
This 'should' fix that hopefully, and it excited me greatly.
[+]
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2011-03-31 14:55:33
Not really sure how I feel about this.. I mean I -did- like the fact that there was no auto-attack.. In FFXI I stuck to mage (only two exceptions being DNC and BST, both required you to do a lot more than just auto-attack - WS - repeat) for the most part because just putting your character on auto-attack and staring at the screen until you have TP available was extremely boring to me.
However, it did get kinda old always having to press the button corresponding to your normal attack. Which begs the question, how are they going to implement auto-attack as when I quit there was at least 3 "normal" attacks (TP generating attacks) on MRD. Are they going to remove these options, or are they going to add an option where you like choose your battle stance, or are they going to make it where when you choose one of those, it just keeps going?
Either way this won't be enough to make me pick the game back up yet.. Actually, I probably won't pick the game back up until new classes are introduced.. Even if the update that adds new classes, only introduces the classes, and the prior update was enough to keep me playing the game.
[+]
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By Fenrir.Xeonerable 2011-03-31 15:45:34
Is repeated button pressing in XIV really any more than most other videogames? Not like its constant button mashing either. There are other games that are worse with that.
I guess communication could be a problem if you type slow or use a controller, but I never have a problem with typing while in combat. Plus most people say they are using vent anyway.
I just feel adding auto-attack will make combat more uninvolved and more boring. Kind of like what slip said about XI here:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Not really sure how I feel about this.. I mean I -did- like the fact that there was no auto-attack.. In FFXI I stuck to mage (only two exceptions being DNC and BST, both required you to do a lot more than just auto-attack - WS - repeat) for the most part because just putting your character on auto-attack and staring at the screen until you have TP available was extremely boring to me.
I wish they would adjust the rate stamina regenerates and/or how much stamina using actions take before they decide on auto-attack.
There are other things they could do to the combat system before adding an auto-attack though... imo
[+]
By Eireamhon 2011-03-31 15:54:32
Ahhh you both have a point. I was against the auto attack until I just got so bored with pressing the number to said attack and then rinse repeat. So in a way, no matter if you want auto-attack or the way it is now, it's repeatative. But, I think for myself and not for anyone else that, those of us who played XI didn't mind or in my case, didn't think the auto-attack was boring. I found other things to do while I was watching gauges and all. Like LS talk or /t or w/e.
Guess it just comes down to what you like to do which is why the suggestion of an on/off toggle for auto attack was actually a pretty grand idea. ;)
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-31 16:03:21
I can't think of any MMO's without a form of auto-attack. You're supposed to use skills occasionally and time them for the best effect, not just get RSI attacking normally. I was all for it initially because I thought it was breed less lazy players who would have to be there constantly, but after playing it, I realised pretty damn fast that it's repetitive and boring to spam an attack button.
[+]
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-03-31 16:25:47
The current battle system is goddamn terrible at times and sometimes completely *** up your actions either by not queueing the actions correctly or just lagging and taking forever to show the animation. I have a decent speed (24 mbit I think) and it still does it and I can't wait for an auto-attack. I'm not a lazy player but it's just a bad system.
By Dubont 2011-03-31 17:00:16
saying that having auto attack = lazy player is about the same as saying that having cars = lazy humans. It's not laziness, it's efficiency.
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2011-03-31 17:10:00
Shiva.Flionheart said: I can't think of any MMO's without a form of auto-attack. You're supposed to use skills occasionally and time them for the best effect, not just get RSI attacking normally. I was all for it initially because I thought it was breed less lazy players who would have to be there constantly, but after playing it, I realised pretty damn fast that it's repetitive and boring to spam an attack button. Not to mention it spawns even lazier players than auto-attack.. I mean people pay more attention to battle in FFXI, and use appropriate abilities, in FFXIV not only are they just pushing buttons, but they're not even using a brain cell to determine which button to push and when to do it.. It's just "oh I have TP, time to Weaponskill" <uses AoE and ends up hitting like 2 Billygoats that are "OMG slaughter us" red> "Why would you AoE when they're standing right next to us?" "It's my strongest WS" "So, why would you use that?" "I didn't see them there, that's the WS I always use" <me face palm>.
I seriously get the impression a lot of times that people are sitting there just watching TV pushing buttons, looking over when they think they should have TP, then using a WS and going back to watching TV.
I mean if you accidently use a AoE once in awhile, it's understandable.. But when it's a common occurrence, just.. WTF?
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-03-31 17:20:28
Sometimes they come up behind you just as you get ready to WS and just *** it up completely lol
Midgardsormr.Fireheart
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By Midgardsormr.Fireheart 2011-03-31 17:26:39
^ @Slipispsycho Which is exactly why they need to revamp the entire battle system, and auto-attack is a step in the right direction. People (like me) do other things b/c the system is boring. I don't like spamming the same gd button over and over for a basic attack. It's to the point you can't talk while you fight, which breeds people like that who watch tv to keep their sanity. At least with auto attack I can talk to my friends or the party while fighting. In a sense, it will lessen your so-called "lazy" players. You ever see a person run around in behest and not swing at all, just follow and leech? That is most likely b/c 1: they're a jerk and should die or 2: talking in guild or something that is probably alot more interesting than spamming a basic attack.
Whether you like it or not, auto-attack is a smart decision. Even if you don't like it, you can't be blind to the fact the battle system feels like an after thought, and kudos to SE for fixing it.
I want my SC/MBs back :/
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2011-03-31 17:26:54
Bismarck.Dracondria said: Sometimes they come up behind you just as you get ready to WS and just *** it up completely lol Well I know but I've watched people do it multiple times (in a row) with them in a position that would mean they have to see them.. Pretty much right in line with the mob they're currently attacking..
Both Billygoats and Dodos love to just walk up on you from seemingly no where and stand on you, I don't *** about those, I'm guilty of doing that myself, I don't walk around the mob to make sure nothing is in the way every time I'm going to Weaponskill.. But I do keep moving around it constantly (moving a little to the left or right every 15-20 seconds or so..) just so I can eye out the area and know when there's a mob getting close I should be watching out for..
These people stand in the same spot the entire fight (also not applicable to the tank, as you don't want to keep turning the mob around and pointing it to the mages/archer that has weak *** defense) and just spam WSs, usually AoE ones, even when a mob is standing right in front of them.
By Eireamhon 2011-03-31 18:42:31
Yeah Slip hit it on the head...I felt more engaged in XI in PTs and even solo then I do in XIV!
As far as people AoEing mobs with the same WS over and over, they are just crap players. I'm not a piece of epicness either BUT, I can say that I spent a lot of time using different skills/attacks during battle to find what I felt were good options to use. I mixed up AoE WSs with non so that IF one of those damn nosey Dodos or Goats showed up, I could choose another just as effective WS. Then, if some tool DOES AoE WS, I can also AoE now to help with CC or something to keep the tank and mage alive. IDC if I die but having the entire PT wipe, that pisses me off.
OOO! So I wonder if this will then free up a space in your bar for another move? That also would be pretty cool.
By deadfire 2011-03-31 19:06:20
The Auto-Attack feature is in development. Link right here.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-31 20:04:08
Read my first post lol.
I got all of that from the SE forum from the official devs.
[+]
By deadfire 2011-03-31 20:28:26
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Read my first post lol.
I got all of that from the SE forum from the official devs.
I couldn't be asked. I'm lazy.
By SniperRifle 2011-03-31 20:30:37
All you Legacy members are the same! Way to post redundant info Nova :P
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 23,653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-03-31 20:38:49
deadfire said: Shiva.Flionheart said:
Read my first post lol.
I got all of that from the SE forum from the official devs.
I couldn't be asked. I'm lazy.
Mong.
[+]
By deadfire 2011-03-31 20:56:22
Shiva.Flionheart said: deadfire said: Shiva.Flionheart said:
Read my first post lol.
I got all of that from the SE forum from the official devs.
I couldn't be asked. I'm lazy.
Mong.
SniperRifle said: All you Legacy members are the same! Way to post redundant info Nova :P
w
By LadySaeko 2011-04-01 17:24:31
Hello adventurers of FFXIV! This is battle lead Akihiko Matsui.
I would like to take this moment to explain the current plans we have in place.
First off, now that the battle balance and battle system adjustments have been implemented, we feel that our own bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) is quite necessary. Please embrace this as just one of the many necessary revamps needed to create a more boring, easy and care free battle system as well as solve the tedious act of actually playing a game let alone a challenging one.
With this said, I do not feel that the implementation of our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) will solve everything. In other threads there have been many topics coming up about what is going to happen to the stamina gauge and claim system, how classes should have unique qualities and stats, what’s going to happen with monsters, raid dungeons, equipment, etc. I have looked over all of the great number of elements and at the current stage feel that without implementing our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) we cannot please every cry baby on the planet.
Compared to the FFXI (R.I.P May 12, 2007, but pretty please continue buying all our re-skins because our company has been going down the toilet for a while now) FFXIV is a sad joke, we are thinking about making our bot system for FFXIV (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the easiest & most user friendly application ever created. Think of it as a “Set it & forget it” button. (This has been a heated debate on the forums having been lead of FFXI please forgive me for bringing it up as a point of comparison. There is no "better" or "worse" system because this system pleases the most people.) We’ve heard all the constant complaints “Too repetitive”, “Can’t do everything at the same time on 1 class”, “It’s too hard”, “Typing > fighting” etc. Now with our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the “Set it & forget it” button will play the game for you. Repetitive you say? Psshh, you don’t even have to look anymore. Can’t do it all you say? Ha, the job will get done anyways. Hard you say? Cmon, this answer is so easy. You want to type? Hell, you can cook, clean, have sex & study all at the same time now.
The objective here is not to lower the battle difficulty because we honestly can’t make it any more gimp. The main objective here, when thinking about battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration, we’ve decided to keep on going in the most opposite direction possible. We will be preparing situations that require absolutely nothing on your part. Following this, weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can win any fight no matter what you do because with our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the game literally plays itself in its entirety.
Due to the fact we still have a lot of elements that need to be tested and looked into, it is difficult for me to tell you any more info in great detail, but if you give me some time I will do my best to share the information with you. Thank you!
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23,653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-04-01 19:31:33
LadySaeko said: Hello adventurers of FFXIV! This is battle lead Akihiko Matsui.
I would like to take this moment to explain the current plans we have in place.
First off, now that the battle balance and battle system adjustments have been implemented, we feel that our own bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) is quite necessary. Please embrace this as just one of the many necessary revamps needed to create a more boring, easy and care free battle system as well as solve the tedious act of actually playing a game let alone a challenging one.
With this said, I do not feel that the implementation of our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) will solve everything. In other threads there have been many topics coming up about what is going to happen to the stamina gauge and claim system, how classes should have unique qualities and stats, what’s going to happen with monsters, raid dungeons, equipment, etc. I have looked over all of the great number of elements and at the current stage feel that without implementing our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) we cannot please every cry baby on the planet.
Compared to the FFXI (R.I.P May 12, 2007, but pretty please continue buying all our re-skins because our company has been going down the toilet for a while now) FFXIV is a sad joke, we are thinking about making our bot system for FFXIV (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the easiest & most user friendly application ever created. Think of it as a “Set it & forget it” button. (This has been a heated debate on the forums having been lead of FFXI please forgive me for bringing it up as a point of comparison. There is no "better" or "worse" system because this system pleases the most people.) We’ve heard all the constant complaints “Too repetitive”, “Can’t do everything at the same time on 1 class”, “It’s too hard”, “Typing > fighting” etc. Now with our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the “Set it & forget it” button will play the game for you. Repetitive you say? Psshh, you don’t even have to look anymore. Can’t do it all you say? Ha, the job will get done anyways. Hard you say? Cmon, this answer is so easy. You want to type? Hell, you can cook, clean, have sex & study all at the same time now.
The objective here is not to lower the battle difficulty because we honestly can’t make it any more gimp. The main objective here, when thinking about battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration, we’ve decided to keep on going in the most opposite direction possible. We will be preparing situations that require absolutely nothing on your part. Following this, weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can win any fight no matter what you do because with our bot system (Downloadable from Loadstone $19.99) the game literally plays itself in its entirety.
Due to the fact we still have a lot of elements that need to be tested and looked into, it is difficult for me to tell you any more info in great detail, but if you give me some time I will do my best to share the information with you. Thank you!
Because spamming 1 button continuously was super hard and necessary for exhilarating battles
amirite
Akihiko.Matsui said: Hello adventurers of FFXIV! This is battle lead Akihiko Matsui.
I would like to take this moment to explain the current plans we have in place.
First off, once the future battle balance and battle system adjustments take place, we feel that the implementation of auto-attack is quite necessary. Please embrace this as just one of the many necessary revamps needed to create more interesting and strategy rich battles as well as solve the tediousness of having to spam a button.
With this said, I do not feel that the implementation of auto-attack will solve everything. In other threads there have been many topics coming up about what is going to happen to the stamina gauge and claim system, how classes should have unique qualities and stats, what’s going to happen with monsters, raid dungeons, equipment, etc. I have looked over all of the great number of elements and at the current stage feel that without implementing auto-attack that the future battle system would be impossible.
Compared to the FFXI auto-attack system, we are thinking about making the auto-attack system for FFXIV have a shorter attack delay. (This has been a heated debate on the forum, and having been lead of FFXI please forgive me for bringing it up as a point of comparison. There is no "better" or "worse" system.)
The objective here is not to lower the battle difficulty. The main objective here, when thinking about battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration, is instead of having to time regular attacks, we will be preparing situations that require proper timing of abilities, magic, and weapon skills. Following this, weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can’t win a fight just by using auto-attack.
Due to the fact we still have a lot of elements that need to be tested and looked into, it is difficult for me to tell you any more info in great detail, but if you give me some time I will do my best to share the information with you. Thank you!
One step toward fixing the awful battling pacing imo.
Also:
Akihiko.Matsui said: Hey everyone! Thanks for the huge amount of feedback!
I would like to explain two things.
The first is about the design choice regarding having an aggressive icon at all and the second is in regards to our plans to integrate an ON/OFF toggle for displayed UI elements.
First, as to the reason why we added the aggressive monster icon, for the upcoming battle fixes, we decided to display addition information necessary for battle strategy.
There are many aspects related to the upcoming battle fixes, but one example of how we are making adjustments that lead to more enjoyable gameplay is by showing information such as the strength of field monsters (their level), whether or not they are aggressive, and whether or not they will link. With this new information, players can make a decision whether they wish to fight these types of enemies and it also allows them to plan crowd control out ahead of time.
Due to the fact that a quick fix for this is quite difficult, we have been making adjustments in stages. We have discussions with Yoshida and the battle team about what kind of info should be shown and what should be masked and once we make a decision we have been implementing them.
The current aggressive icon and the upcoming enemy level display are only one part of the current stage of edits.
Next on the agenda is the ON/OFF display toggle.
The aggressive icon that was recently implemented was a bit of information we wanted players to be able to check easily that fits hand-in-hand with the future battle plans, and thus we released it as a full-time display feature. Originally we thought that the icon wasn’t something that needed to be easily turned on/off, but after seeing the current reactions and hearing all of your feedback, after long consideration we have decided to make it possible to toggle the display. We will also continue to make adjustments to display toggling and display methods for the information displays we have planned for the future.
I apologize for not going into more detail earlier, but hopefully now you can better see our reasoning for the implementation.
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