If you want to limit what I said to relics, then you said it yourself:
Luz said:
They were a measure of competence
But I never actually said anything about relics, instead I was merely commenting on the nature of pre-Abyssea relic holders versus the more common post-Abyssea Empyrean player.
Even as short as three years ago, relic holders were generally the most decked out players you could find. These were players who participated in all aspects of the game's content, and were covered in head to toe with some of the best gear available from sky/sea/salvage/hnm/dynamis/limbus/einherjar or any other event you could think of. Seeing all of the best gear on these players generally meant these players had experienced everything the game had to offer many times over, and had more than earned their right to wield that relic. Of course, there were exceptions to the rule (like that guy you know who spent years fishing and cooking to finish his Kikoku), but you get the idea.
These days, you can easily find twenty Samurais with a Masamune who've never even SEEN a Tiamat, King V, Nidhogg or Khimaira for every ONE seasoned relic holder from the pre-Abyssea days who had literally seen it all a hundred times over. And you want to put those players on the same level, or even greater? They're not even close lol
But you're right, relics themselves were never really a measure of skill. It doesnt take much skill to spend time and gil collecting dynamis currency. It only takes dedication. The difference is that pre-Abyssea, the players with that type of dedication generally had the same dedication for the rest of the game, in it's entirety, and it reflected in everything else they had for the character... not just that one relic.
I'm not doubting that building an Empyrean is not an achievement. It is undoubtedly an achievement in it's own right. But the difference is between the two is astronomical. As for an Empyrean taking MORE skill than a relic... well that's just completely wrong. I cant say either one takes more skill, because they dont. They're both just as simple, one just takes much longer than the other.
In no way does spending a few hours farming gold chests and killing a few NMs take any more skill than farming Dynamis for currency.
Bismarck.Helel said:
And wtf do HNMs have anything to do with relics lol?
It actually used to be very common for HNM linkshells to fund relics through selling drops obtained from HNMs. Sandworm and Ixion drops were incredibly lucrative for the first two years they were out, and Herald's Gaiters have always been a huge source of income for the right linkshells. Even selling rare/ex drops from HNMs became a common occurrence, as there were many players who wanted the drops without putting in the time, effort, and competition associated with HNM camping back in the day. It was only two years ago that you could sell Ridills for 40 mil, Hauteclaires for 20 mil, Nidhogg abjurations for 10 to 15 mil, and Aces Helms for like 6 or 7 mil. That's good money when your linkshell doesnt need the gear.
As for Salvage being dead... yeah, the gear there is in the same boat as HNM gear. It's all over-shadowed by Abyssea gear that any schmuck with a few friends and discernment Abyssite is privy to. But if you still do Salvage (I still go daily, best event in the game in my opinion)
it's now better than ever with the increase in drop rates, lower entry fee, and lower party size requirement.