Thief Merits

Tp bonus +250 is like plus 250 tp added to your ws up till 3000 tp limit.

In other words, if you ws at 1000tp, your ws will have ftp of 1250 tp. In terms of strenght, its a jump from ftp 6 (at 1000 tp) to 8,25 (1250 tp) just swaping a single piece in your gear. A bonus of over 30% in dmg. Thats for rudra storm.

The second augment can be anything. Nothing is really appealing in second slot.

TP bonus, 2nd augment is generally attack, but you could make a case for accuracy/racc/ratt/macc depending on your job combinations.

If the only situation you can give to back up your argument is in a rng/pld setup taking hate, your really trying to hard.
In DM your there basically for TH. And the the point of a rng strat is to keep hate on a single tank. Any DD is gonna pull hate and if your doing this then your defeating the whole purpose of using a rng/pld strat in the first place. As well as actually being detrimental to the gameplay of said setup (decoy). May as well do dd/nin at that point with a pld holding party.
Try harder.

Valli pretty much clowned our rangers in damage in DM last night thf/nin

Rngs werent supose to be top dd anyway.

And thf is supose to be top 3.

If he had spent less time QQ about sherzo then he probably could have done even more

Regardless of what your strategy is, unless you have hate-shedding techniques (and can use them regularly), you're going to hit the hate cap sooner or later and your tank is helpless to keep it off you until you get a good smack in the face. But there's still a build-up to that, and then that period after you've been smacked in the face. Having Ambush merits is still taking advantage of those periods, limited as they are, in what is overall a more pragmatic use of merits than maximizing Assassin's Charge or Aura Steal.

If that's the case then why not dump the rngs and pld and go full thf/dd?
Then take advantage of being able to SA on recast and generally kill faster.

Probably because of safety, but I bet we could do it. I'm always stuck on brd so I don't really care either way though.

You might be able to get away with that on everyone but TT, but once you hit TT, damage would slow pretty badly with all melee DD's considering all the porting around. Not to mention Amon Drive would eat people alive.

With hate bouncing around a bunch of melees all subbing NIN, it's not bad at all, especially if you bring a COR or RUN to give out some Fast Cast.

I'm sure you could, played with a few in your group before and are all good players.
It just that arguing against something(not yousorry if you thought this), by using a pretty strange/rare setup as defence, of an overall opinion of how you should or shouldn't use merits of said job, is a pretty weak argument.

I literally care more about the cost of tea in China than arguing with people on the internets, I'm too old for that sort of thing.

Pretty sure Charlo directed that at Valli, who always seems eager to argue.

Thf only for TH? What *** game are you playing. Try harder for what?

Having the THF pull hate doesn't diminshes the hate the PLD has from rngs as long as it's lined up, the THF can TH and DD/speed it up without causing an issue, what's the problem exactly?

The reason they brought a single THF instead of another RNG was because they wanted better TH, not better damage. Of course THF is the better DD, but the setup is structured around the RNGs and PLD, and so the THF only has 1 other person to share their capped hate with, leaving them very vulnerable if they can't keep shadows going. If the THF is capable of staying alive, then it begs the question: why bring RNGs and a PLD when you can get more damage from other jobs who can just as effectively bounce hate between each other?

In the end, it really doesn't matter because they still beat the fight without problems, and also most of us could ultimately give zero *** because it's not our linkshell or even server.

I'm trying to figure out the issue.

Chaarlo is a moron, and I blocked him, so sorry to continue name calling but the truth is the truth. I even told him I blocked him, so continuing to try to talk to me would be even dumber.
This is incorrect, we took THF cause we wanted ***to die faster. It was for the Damage. Not for lolTH.

A coro > stacked Rudra drop an AA health by 25%, that's a shitload. This was done with zero buffs. (yeah... people slacking).

jean welcome to the endless merry go round of post after post after post that goes on for 20 pages, that completely misses any point, in light of more and more extremely situational circumstance, that is then used as the basis of a end all, overall opinion. Where debate turns into childish name calling and finger pointing.
At first I thought he was trolling too hard but at this point its best to ignore completely and move on.
It's why i'm blocked, because I keep on calling him out on his idiocy making him look bad and he's now too embarrassed. As you will read on multiple other threads he has been shown up on.
Proved wrong > deny deny deny > attack attack attack > show funny pic > attack > hope everyone forgets/gets bored.
It was actually directed at Eliseus after he quoted valli. But I'm sure anyone with half a brain can just scroll back and find the point myself, you and kylos was trying to say about the subject the OP was intending to discuss.

I'll cut the tension here and just say I still have 5/5 Assassin's Charge.

Here's some chase for Waffle's selfie :D

Your point is put merits in ambush because good thiefs will spend all their time behind a target never doing anything besides TA Rudras, while bad thiefs won't give a *** because they do so much dmg that they will end up tanking, apparently resulting in terrible DPS all around because they end up tanking. Let us use valli's example though.

Let's just assume he does what he does near the start of the fight with a TA rudras. 25% off, then he does it again with a 25% SA rudras. Who gives a *** if he's tanking, because he can do another 25% TA rudras, and then bully SA another 25%, I don't understand how he is hurting his DPS. This is how most fights are now, but apparently THF is hurting their DPS by tanking? Apparently it's better to just Auto-attack and only TA? I don't understand. Call me crazy, but I like to kill ***, not just sit there and jerk off. Let's not ignore the fact that tons of content uses stuns IE delve, where you can *** SA Rudras while the target is stunned, I'm sorry you are lazy and don't know how to do ***like that.

You seem to have forgotten what you said, so I guess i'll have to help you out, here



You originally said NOT to put merits in ambush because if your thf you will be the only dd with constant hate and never be able to get behind the target.
To which we said that's stupid because there are other DDs and some magic thing called a hate cap.
You ignored this and brought up a scenario in which a thf has minimal opposition in hate generation regarding capping hate and swinging faster(rng/pld strat). To try and back up your point.
To which we replied that that setup disregards the purpose of why you would use it, if tanking on thf is a non issue. Bring all thfs and kill it faster. I bet TAWS > SAWS takes more than 25%, don't you think?
oh the irony

Chaarlo is straight up the reason why thf has a bad name, it's like all those lolpups from 2007 that completely killed any future pup could've ever had. Do yourself a favor and just block him, you'd have better luck talking sense into a muffin.

Just let him be a shitty THF. Maybe he'll move on and play DNC and we all win.

I'm confused, you are right, I did mention a thief tanking, which a lot of good ones will because of their dmg. How does ambush help a thief with capped hate? You said bad thiefs are the ones that end up tanking, what? How the *** are you not tanking unless you aren't WSing? Let's ignore the fact that feint helps the entire group, ambush has NO benefit when you can't be behind the target, which DOES happen, unless you are a thief that just doesn't WS, or does WS but some how sucks at rudras. You tried to also say we are bad thiefs because when we tank we can't SA? HOW THE *** ARE YOU NOT ALREADY PULLING FROM SA RUDRAS? Then I also presented you situations where it doesn't *** matter, Valli even gave you a SS of where he drops content down 25%. I now understand his pain when he has to repeat himself over and over again. You are a *** idiot and don't listen.

Seriously this is getting a tad stupid now.

so lets assume you 5/5 it and add Relic Body +1 for the 5% TA, assuming you and the other person in the party (i.e a pld) both have capped hate, the monsters focus will be swapping between you both (arguable a thf's hate will decay faster than a PLD's with 3~+ RNG's Decoy shotting him) now asides from the TA/SA Rudra's (TA rudra's again gives PLD more % time with hate capped) a THF will undoubtedly not be tanking for (estimated value) 30% of the time~

so for 60% of the time (-time for moving and positioning for sa/ta so about 10%?) depends how fast you move I guess you could be getting a 5% TA bonus constantly.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't play THF that extensively in Event's however this does seem viable.

Editing this as I type because my Browser keeps crashing!

I assume the best merit options then are Ambush 5/5 and Feint 5/5, not really seeing what great boon AC is when Rudra's now ons everything so that seems like a pointless JA to get really.

Aura Steal? Get Better Supports who actively dispel so again this isn't really adding anything to yourself or the group and the recast timer sucks anyway.

These seem like the only 2 worth meriting in today's THF so I am missing the above argument ~

Why are we saying feint vs Ambush when you get both and it's not a decision of one over the other?

when did I say bad thfs are ones that take hate?
Been listening to valli too much?
please quote me

Finally some common sense.
So in this RARE scenario (Thf full DDing with rng/pld strat) 60% of the time ambush merits are effective.
And other times where theres multiple DDs the percentage of use can be made higher.