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Time travel
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-30 11:13:28
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Phoenix.Darki said:
Fairy.Spence said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
time travel is not possible unless the laws of nature established that there are different time warps involved in the same plane.

And that is impossible, time is constant and instant.

from what I understand... and believe. But would like to know that time isn't constant and the same.

It's been proven that time is different outside the earth.
the perception of time yes.

but time is the same. For example, from afar you see things later.

If i were to throw a ball and you could see it 100 light years from now, you would see it perhaps 1 year after I have thrown it. but you can't go back in time to stop me from throwing the ball, because it's something that has already happened even if you saw it 1 year later. Yes light takes time to travel, but doesn't mean that the motion as well. What happens here is the same as 100 light years from here, only it is perceived differently. Still, you can't stop something that has already happened. for example.. throwing the ball.

This guy does a nice job of answering your question.

Quote:
E=MC^2 infers that time is relative to the observer. The space-time continuum is dependent upon gravity. Time is relative in two ways. The first is velocity induced. The faster one travels the slower he seems to age to an independent observer. The second theory is the one I believe you are looking for. Time is gravitationally induced.

The greater the gravity, the slower that time appears to pass according to an independent observer. Gravity induced time differentiation has been proved in scientific tests since the 1930s. A man in a valley on Earth would age slower than a man on a mountain top (to an independent observer). Because the man in a valley would experience slightly greater gravity than the man on the mountain top. Persons who are at the ISS (International space station) for an extended stay, age faster than persons on Earth.

I repeat that the observation must be from an independent source because if you are traveling at a very fast speed or standing still, your watches will appear to tick one second in the normal way. It is only from an independent viewing point that one would see any difference.

The question you pose must be qualified by the statement that if you are on Earth and live 80 years, or if you are in space and live 80 years, your watches tick the same. Nobody would physically age faster or slower. Only an independent person would see the person in space aging at a faster rate (Assuming that we are speaking about a person floating in space and not traveling in a space rocket at a fast speed). If the space person was in a fast traveling rocket then the opposite would be true.

It was Newton's gravitational laws which Einstein saw flaws in when applied to space. Einstein came up with the Theory of Relativity and the Special Theory of Relativity to fix these flaws.

Einstein realized that space and time are not separate concepts. The two are intimately intertwined. Space-time is the accepted view today. Sometimes referred to as the 'fabric' of space-time.

Since space is never a total vacuum but is always composed of at least hydrogen molecules, gravity has the ability to warp space.

Therefore, as gravity warps space, it must also warp time. We return to gravity induced time dilation. The greater the gravity, the slower time appears to pass ~ according to an independent observer.

Gravity of Jupiter is greater than the gravity of Earth. If a person could stand on Jupiter, they would appear to age slower on Jupiter ~ according to a person watching from Mars.

Author

The very important part in bold.
 
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By 2010-12-30 11:14:54
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 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:22:08
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
Fairy.Spence said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
time travel is not possible unless the laws of nature established that there are different time warps involved in the same plane.

And that is impossible, time is constant and instant.

from what I understand... and believe. But would like to know that time isn't constant and the same.

It's been proven that time is different outside the earth.
the perception of time yes.

but time is the same. For example, from afar you see things later.

If i were to throw a ball and you could see it 100 light years from now, you would see it perhaps 1 year after I have thrown it. but you can't go back in time to stop me from throwing the ball, because it's something that has already happened even if you saw it 1 year later. Yes light takes time to travel, but doesn't mean that the motion as well. What happens here is the same as 100 light years from here, only it is perceived differently. Still, you can't stop something that has already happened. for example.. throwing the ball.

This guy does a nice job of answering your question.

Quote:
E=MC^2 infers that time is relative to the observer. The space-time continuum is dependent upon gravity. Time is relative in two ways. The first is velocity induced. The faster one travels the slower he seems to age to an independent observer. The second theory is the one I believe you are looking for. Time is gravitationally induced.

The greater the gravity, the slower that time appears to pass according to an independent observer. Gravity induced time differentiation has been proved in scientific tests since the 1930s. A man in a valley on Earth would age slower than a man on a mountain top (to an independent observer). Because the man in a valley would experience slightly greater gravity than the man on the mountain top. Persons who are at the ISS (International space station) for an extended stay, age faster than persons on Earth.

I repeat that the observation must be from an independent source because if you are traveling at a very fast speed or standing still, your watches will appear to tick one second in the normal way. It is only from an independent viewing point that one would see any difference.

The question you pose must be qualified by the statement that if you are on Earth and live 80 years, or if you are in space and live 80 years, your watches tick the same. Nobody would physically age faster or slower. Only an independent person would see the person in space aging at a faster rate (Assuming that we are speaking about a person floating in space and not traveling in a space rocket at a fast speed). If the space person was in a fast traveling rocket then the opposite would be true.

It was Newton's gravitational laws which Einstein saw flaws in when applied to space. Einstein came up with the Theory of Relativity and the Special Theory of Relativity to fix these flaws.

Einstein realized that space and time are not separate concepts. The two are intimately intertwined. Space-time is the accepted view today. Sometimes referred to as the 'fabric' of space-time.

Since space is never a total vacuum but is always composed of at least hydrogen molecules, gravity has the ability to warp space.

Therefore, as gravity warps space, it must also warp time. We return to gravity induced time dilation. The greater the gravity, the slower time appears to pass ~ according to an independent observer.

Gravity of Jupiter is greater than the gravity of Earth. If a person could stand on Jupiter, they would appear to age slower on Jupiter ~ according to a person watching from Mars.

Author

The very important part in bold.

thanks, maybe you should do more than reading over it.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-12-30 11:27:25
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There's no such thing as absolute time and you can't travel backwards in time. You can travel into the future relative to a stationary observer though.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-30 11:31:17
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
There's no such thing as absolute time and you can't travel backwards in time. You can travel into the future relative to a stationary observer though.
Stephen Hawking disagrees with you.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:34:46
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
There's no such thing as absolute time and you can't travel backwards in time. You can travel into the future relative to a stationary observer though.
Stephen Hawking disagrees with you.
then where's our time machine? :)
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:34:58
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How about this.

You can see a ball being thrown from 100 light years away, and you (using your example) see that it was thrown 1 year ago, and you go there to try to stop it.....

....how in the hell do you go from the past > present > past in that sense?

actually, I have no idea what your point is.

If something happened a very far distance away, you can't just pop next to the event in question to stop it at the same time you saw it happen at that far distance....

...even if you have hax....

...cause think about it, you saw it happen at the present (now) and decide to interrupt it in the future (next to now). How can you go to the now when you already passed the now and are in the next to now portion of time?

Better yet, how can you instantaneousness be at two places at once, even with a time machine, you would have to have a future you to reach the past point of time, so you aren't really in two places at once, you are really at the same timeline during two different views of time.

If I understand what you are stating Darki, you trolling (obviously), and you also can't be at the same place at the same time (trolling again, whacha know, you can troll at the same thread with the same post twice!)
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:36:39
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in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:37:26
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mehtastic said:
How about this.

You can see a ball being thrown from 100 light years away, and you (using your example) see that it was thrown 1 year ago, and you go there to try to stop it.....

....how in the hell do you go from the past > present > past in that sense?

actually, I have no idea what your point is.

If something happened a very far distance away, you can't just pop next to the event in question to stop it at the same time you saw it happen at that far distance....

...even if you have hax....

...cause think about it, you saw it happen at the present (now) and decide to interrupt it in the future (next to now). How can you go to the now when you already passed the now and are in the next to now portion of time?

Better yet, how can you instantaneousness be at two places at once, even with a time machine, you would have to have a future you to reach the past point of time, so you aren't really in two places at once, you are really at the same timeline during two different views of time.

If I understand what you are stating Darki, you trolling (obviously), and you also can't be at the same place at the same time (trolling again, whacha know, you can troll at the same thread with the same post twice!)

You have no idea what my point is because you don't understand Time.

Like jaerik said, you can see the past by looking at the stars. you do realize that light takes time to travel right... you do realize that when you look at the stars you are looking at the past, that if you were to go closer to a star you would look at it WAY more different than what you do now.

well what the hell, why am i bothering to teach someone if I'm trolling (sarcasm there) ...

anyways, read a science book about space.. and time. when you understand it, hit me up.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-30 11:38:03
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I was quite looking forward to discuss this topic when it came up, but it's just become a clusterfuck of horrible.

Time to go play more PS3.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:38:12
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mehtastic said:
in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
in other words you just looked like a dumbass LOL.
way to goo =)!
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:40:02
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Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
in other words you just looked like a dumbass LOL.
way to goo =)!
If you post and nobody understands it, does that make everyone a dumbass...

..or just you?

Anyway, what are you really trying to say?

And I'm drunk, so sue me.

Edit: BTW, Go is spelled with 1 "o", not 2.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-30 11:40:56
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Phoenix.Darki said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
There's no such thing as absolute time and you can't travel backwards in time. You can travel into the future relative to a stationary observer though.
Stephen Hawking disagrees with you.
then where's our time machine? :)
Right here:

 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:41:16
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mehtastic said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
in other words you just looked like a dumbass LOL.
way to goo =)!
If you post and nobody understands it, does that make everyone a dumbass...

..or just you?

Anyway, what are you really trying to say?

And I'm drunk, so sue me.


Well looking at your posts I can tell you just want to be a douche bag, so I'll let you be and have fun m8.
 Ramuh.Haseyo
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By Ramuh.Haseyo 2010-12-30 11:42:21
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For a drunkard, you sure can type freakishly well.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:42:39
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
There's no such thing as absolute time and you can't travel backwards in time. You can travel into the future relative to a stationary observer though.
Stephen Hawking disagrees with you.
then where's our time machine? :)
Right here:

a prototype. I also make those in my computer for class a lot =) they never end up the same though...
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:43:03
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Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
in other words you just looked like a dumbass LOL.
way to goo =)!
If you post and nobody understands it, does that make everyone a dumbass...

..or just you?

Anyway, what are you really trying to say?

And I'm drunk, so sue me.


Well looking at your posts I can tell you just want to be a douche bag, so I'll let you be and have fun m8.
Then answer my question instead of avoiding it.
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:44:38
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Ramuh.Haseyo said:
For a drunkard, you sure can type freakishly well.
I'm not a drunkard, I'm just drunk.

Day off from work + pain = need to drink something to get rid of the pain.

And before you say anything, painkillers aren't the answer to all types of pain.
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By Fairy.Spence 2010-12-30 11:45:38
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mehtastic said:
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
For a drunkard, you sure can type freakishly well.
I'm not a drunkard, I'm just drunk.

Day off from work + pain = need to drink something to get rid of the pain.

And before you say anything, painkillers aren't the answer to all types of pain.

Amen brother! I drink away my sorrows too!
 
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 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:46:35
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mehtastic said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
mehtastic said:
in case you don't understand my last post, here is a tl:dr.

"Oww, head hurts from Darki post"
in other words you just looked like a dumbass LOL.
way to goo =)!
If you post and nobody understands it, does that make everyone a dumbass...

..or just you?

Anyway, what are you really trying to say?

And I'm drunk, so sue me.


Well looking at your posts I can tell you just want to be a douche bag, so I'll let you be and have fun m8.
Then answer my question instead of avoiding it.


Honestly My last post to you, I am not in the mood to feed a troll. If you're by any chance serious and didn't understand, look through the thread or pull out a "time for dummies" book or something, or a documentary... theres a documentary about the big bang that explains Time to you. You can PM me then your questions if you're serious about knowing what I really think.

and yes go is spelled with one O not two, I am aware. I guess I forgot to say I was adding tone into my text.
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 11:50:13
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Ok.

Since Darki doesn't know what she is talking about, does anyone else have any ideas what she is talking about?

I'm serious about that, but since she isn't going to respond, using the "I don't respond to trolls" troll card, I rather get that information from somebody else.

Plus, I'm getting less drunk, got to go get some more booze.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-12-30 11:55:31
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People like to humiliate... it's funny when they end up humiliating themselves.

edit- I'm out. Got work.
Merry x-mas.
 Bismarck.Angeleus
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By Bismarck.Angeleus 2010-12-30 12:01:25
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Phoenix.Darki said:
People like to humiliate... it's funny when they end up humiliating themselves.

edit- I'm out. Got work.
Merry x-mas.

Donde esta mi x-mas regalo :P
 Bismarck.Angeleus
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By Bismarck.Angeleus 2010-12-30 12:02:05
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mehtastic said:
Ok.more booze, more trolling.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-30 12:07:26
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mehtastic said:
Ok.

Since Darki doesn't know what she is talking about, does anyone else have any ideas what she is talking about?

I'm serious about that, but since she isn't going to respond, using the "I don't respond to trolls" troll card, I rather get that information from somebody else.

Plus, I'm getting less drunk, got to go get some more booze.
What was your question?
I'll bite, I can read Darki's mind too.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-30 12:09:43
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Phoenix.Darki said:
People like to humiliate... it's funny when they end up humiliating themselves.

edit- I'm out. Got work.
Merry x-mas.
5 days late
 Luz
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By Luz 2010-12-30 12:11:26
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Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
People like to humiliate... it's funny when they end up humiliating themselves.

edit- I'm out. Got work.
Merry x-mas.
5 days late
Don't point out her disability D:
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By mehtastic 2010-12-30 12:11:55
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
mehtastic said:
Ok.

Since Darki doesn't know what she is talking about, does anyone else have any ideas what she is talking about?

I'm serious about that, but since she isn't going to respond, using the "I don't respond to trolls" troll card, I rather get that information from somebody else.

Plus, I'm getting less drunk, got to go get some more booze.
What was your question?
I'll bite, I can read Darki's mind too.
What is she talking about?


Phoenix.Darki said:

If i were to throw a ball and you could see it 100 light years from now, you would see it perhaps 1 year after I have thrown it. but you can't go back in time to stop me from throwing the ball, because it's something that has already happened even if you saw it 1 year later. Yes light takes time to travel, but doesn't mean that the motion as well. What happens here is the same as 100 light years from here, only it is perceived differently. Still, you can't stop something that has already happened. for example.. throwing the ball.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-30 12:12:39
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She didn't throw the ball in the first place because it's a what if :P
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