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Thoughts on the December update notes:
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 12:44:38
Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone?
those pseudo empyreans have like top5 dmg of any weapon in their class, clearly the best things to get if you cant get empyrean at this point
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-12-01 12:44:46
Asura.Matzilla said: Bahamut.Dasva said: ... they hadn't "fixed" sipar ? Last I heard they vastly lowered the proc rate on it a few updates back. So it no longer has the automatic omfg block rate anymore
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-01 12:45:34
Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone? Quietus scales decently against high-def mobs, but overall it still won't measure up. Torcleaver is a little better in the rawrdamage department iirc since it's designed to be frontloaded rather than consistent damage as defense scales, but VIT mod still screws it in the end.
 Bahamut.Vagrua
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2010-12-01 12:45:56
Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Enmity Douse (BLM Lv.87 Ability Delay: 10 min.)
Reduces the target's enmity towards you. (they should just increase the enmity of paladins and decrease the enmity of all other DD/support jobs actions. otherwise paladins won't be able to hold hate properly with fully atma buffed DD)
A hurp? *** with everything in the game for pld can feel like it has an important use?
Quote: Blood Rage (WAR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 30 sec.)
Enhances critical hit rate and critical hit damage for party members within area of effect.
Impetus (MNK Lv.88 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 3 min.)
Enhances attack and critical hit rate with each successive melee attack you land. (just giving DD jobs more dmg output/more enmity build up)
Totally don't want DDs doing damage. At all. Especially ones that can tank. Don't want them to have enmity.
Quote: Triple Shot (COR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 90 sec.)
Occasionally uses three units of ammunition to deal extra damage.
(bullet prices > arrow prices, rngs go through 24 stacks of demon arrows with less than the cost of 12 stacks of steel bullets.)
Who cares?
Quote: Mana Cede (SMN Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min.)
Channels your MP into TP for avatars and elementals.
(why do my elemetals need tp whenever I can't even command them to do anything along with them not even having the spells for their levels?)
TP affects some BPs of avatars, durp. but has trouble holding hate while the damage to take down the NM is being done by DD.
What in the *** have you been smoking? I only know from experience with my linkshell from doing zone bosses in Abyssea, if a DD gets any hate they are killed within 5-10 seconds, though afterwards the paladins regain hate until another DD comes along to throw in their damage and also dies. Any other small pop NMs or regular NMs can be tanked fairly easily by DDs. I am only referring to BIG NMs. A single AoE from one of these NMs can wipe out all the DD, yet the PLDs tanking will survive with half or more of their health. During bosses, our summoners do the most damage output since they can just be resummoned and thrown at the NMs. DDs hate levels on the other hand are off the chart.
Fenrir.Weewoo
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By Fenrir.Weewoo 2010-12-01 12:46:27
Asura.Matzilla said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone?
those pseudo empyreans have like top5 dmg of any weapon in their class, clearly the best things to get if you cant get empyrean at this point
Gotcha.
Would be nice though if they did some quest line or something that let you unlock the weapon skill for conventional use like they did with the Nyzul ones.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-01 12:46:42
Bahamut.Vagrua said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Enmity Douse (BLM Lv.87 Ability Delay: 10 min.)
Reduces the target's enmity towards you. (they should just increase the enmity of paladins and decrease the enmity of all other DD/support jobs actions. otherwise paladins won't be able to hold hate properly with fully atma buffed DD)
A hurp? *** with everything in the game for pld can feel like it has an important use?
Quote: Blood Rage (WAR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 30 sec.)
Enhances critical hit rate and critical hit damage for party members within area of effect.
Impetus (MNK Lv.88 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 3 min.)
Enhances attack and critical hit rate with each successive melee attack you land. (just giving DD jobs more dmg output/more enmity build up)
Totally don't want DDs doing damage. At all. Especially ones that can tank. Don't want them to have enmity.
Quote: Triple Shot (COR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 90 sec.)
Occasionally uses three units of ammunition to deal extra damage.
(bullet prices > arrow prices, rngs go through 24 stacks of demon arrows with less than the cost of 12 stacks of steel bullets.)
Who cares?
Quote: Mana Cede (SMN Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min.)
Channels your MP into TP for avatars and elementals.
(why do my elemetals need tp whenever I can't even command them to do anything along with them not even having the spells for their levels?)
TP affects some BPs of avatars, durp. but has trouble holding hate while the damage to take down the NM is being done by DD.
What in the *** have you been smoking? I only know from experience with my linkshell from doing zone bosses in Abyssea, if a DD gets any hate they are killed within 5-10 seconds Stopped reading here. Your DDs suck.
 Leviathan.Bassclef
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Posts: 169
By Leviathan.Bassclef 2010-12-01 12:47:57
Hmm, only spells for WHM this upcoming update. :/
At least SAM gets a new job ability useful to those who still do Campaign, oh wait...
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-12-01 12:48:07
Bahamut.Vagrua said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Enmity Douse (BLM Lv.87 Ability Delay: 10 min.) Reduces the target's enmity towards you. (they should just increase the enmity of paladins and decrease the enmity of all other DD/support jobs actions. otherwise paladins won't be able to hold hate properly with fully atma buffed DD) A hurp? *** with everything in the game for pld can feel like it has an important use? Quote: Blood Rage (WAR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 30 sec.) Enhances critical hit rate and critical hit damage for party members within area of effect. Impetus (MNK Lv.88 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 3 min.) Enhances attack and critical hit rate with each successive melee attack you land. (just giving DD jobs more dmg output/more enmity build up) Totally don't want DDs doing damage. At all. Especially ones that can tank. Don't want them to have enmity. Quote: Triple Shot (COR Lv.87 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 90 sec.) Occasionally uses three units of ammunition to deal extra damage. (bullet prices > arrow prices, rngs go through 24 stacks of demon arrows with less than the cost of 12 stacks of steel bullets.) Who cares? Quote: Mana Cede (SMN Lv.87 Ability Delay: 5 min.) Channels your MP into TP for avatars and elementals. (why do my elemetals need tp whenever I can't even command them to do anything along with them not even having the spells for their levels?) TP affects some BPs of avatars, durp. but has trouble holding hate while the damage to take down the NM is being done by DD. What in the *** have you been smoking? I only know from experience with my linkshell from doing zone bosses in Abyssea, if a DD gets any hate they are killed within 5-10 seconds, though afterwards the paladins regain hate until another DD comes along to throw in their damage and also dies. Any other small pop NMs or regular NMs can be tanked fairly easily by DDs. I am only referring to BIG NMs. A single AoE from one of these NMs can wipe out all the DD, yet the PLDs tanking will survive with half or more of their health. During bosses, our summoners do the most damage output since they can just be resummoned and thrown at the NMs. DDs hate levels on the other hand are off the chart. You do realize that as far as AOEs knocking people out a mnk would more likely survive than a pld right?
Oh and my blus hate lvls are just fine... SATA ;). Can't wait to get hide too
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Posts: 1907
By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 12:48:39
Fenrir.Weewoo said: Asura.Matzilla said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone?
those pseudo empyreans have like top5 dmg of any weapon in their class, clearly the best things to get if you cant get empyrean at this point
Gotcha.
Would be nice though if they did some quest line or something that let you unlock the weapon skill for conventional use like they did with the Nyzul ones.
would be very nice.. but I suppose getting the walk of echoes coins isnt that bad :|
Fenrir.Weewoo
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By Fenrir.Weewoo 2010-12-01 12:49:15
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone? Quietus scales decently against high-def mobs, but overall it still won't measure up. Torcleaver is a little better in the rawrdamage department iirc since it's designed to be frontloaded rather than consistent damage as defense scales, but VIT mod still screws it in the end.
I noticed a handful of these new crazy weapon skills are either crit hit based, defense ignoring, or double/triple damage. So each have their own practicality, however, it would seem crit and double/triple obviously have consistent advantages against any and every mob rather than the ones that only shine through when it's a mob/boss built out of titanium.
PS: Sorry if I'm an idiot at this; I started from scratch not long ago hence the lvl 27 lawl.
Fenrir.Weewoo
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By Fenrir.Weewoo 2010-12-01 12:50:31
Asura.Matzilla said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Asura.Matzilla said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Yeah, I just realized how much crits have become special lately.
With all the neat ***increasing the rate, and the multi hit weapon skills with critical mods, it's no wonder some DDs are left in the dust.
However, most of those fancy weapon skills require you to wear that pseudo-empyrean weapon right? How does that weapon alone measure up to others by grace of weapon skill alone?
those pseudo empyreans have like top5 dmg of any weapon in their class, clearly the best things to get if you cant get empyrean at this point
Gotcha.
Would be nice though if they did some quest line or something that let you unlock the weapon skill for conventional use like they did with the Nyzul ones.
would be very nice.. but I suppose getting the walk of echoes coins isnt that bad :|
God, I feel like such a *** noob.
Care to paraphrase or wiki link me on what those are for? ._.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-01 12:51:36
Crit WS tend to scale well too due to the way crit pDIF is calculated, but yeah you've got the right idea.
Bahamut.Vagrua
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2010-12-01 12:55:03
Quote:
You do realize that as far as AOEs knocking people out a mnk would more likely survive than a pld right?
Yes, but can a monk hold hate off of the other DDs and healers along with surviving?
PLDs also have access to MDB gear.
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 12:55:47
Bahamut.Vagrua said: Quote:
You do realize that as far as AOEs knocking people out a mnk would more likely survive than a pld right?
Yes, but can a monk hold hate off of the other DDs and healers along with surviving?
PLDs also have access to MDB gear.
yes
and that doesnt matter
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-01 12:55:58
Bahamut.Vagrua said: Quote:
You do realize that as far as AOEs knocking people out a mnk would more likely survive than a pld right?
Yes, but can a monk hold hate off of the other DDs and healers along with surviving?
PLDs also have access to MDB gear. ITT: MNK can't DPS, doesn't have counter, and doesn't have access to PDT or MDT gear.
Jesus *** christ.
Bahamut.Vagrua
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2010-12-01 12:57:45
Asura.Matzilla said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: Quote:
You do realize that as far as AOEs knocking people out a mnk would more likely survive than a pld right?
Yes, but can a monk hold hate off of the other DDs and healers along with surviving?
PLDs also have access to MDB gear.
yes
and that doesnt matter the answer is no..mnks will die from repeated agas/etc.
if they try to kite they won't be able to keep hate at all as mnk/nin has no way of getting hate off the NM as DDs are throwing 700+ WSs and healers are throwing cure v's vis at him.
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 12:57:46
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 12:59:41
Bahamut.Vagrua said: DDs are throwing 700+ WSs 
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Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-12-01 13:03:27
Lol 700 dmg ws... my blu does more than that with its ws. And that's using a refresh atma. I'm hitting 5k+ with SA spells
Bahamut.Vagrua
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By Bahamut.Vagrua 2010-12-01 13:04:05
Asura.Matzilla said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: DDs are throwing 700+ WSs the zone bosses take much less damage than regular NMs..anyways I'm gonna go. you can believe what you want to.
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-12-01 13:04:57
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Crit WS tend to scale well too due to the way crit pDIF is calculated, but yeah you've got the right idea. Well melee crit ws. The way they changed ranged ones kinda *** that.
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 13:05:06
Bahamut.Vagrua said: Asura.Matzilla said: Bahamut.Vagrua said: DDs are throwing 700+ WSs the zone bosses take much less damage than regular NMs..anyways I'm gonna go. you can believe what you want to.
woah woah woah quote properly, I did not say this
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By Ramuh.Aramachus 2010-12-01 13:06:29
Take it easy, its a game guys >_> after reading through half of this and a few other threads concerning the update most I read is the "we got gimped again!!! FU SE!" and loads of "thats it I quit!!!" if you are so much into this game that an update makes you want to quit (apparently its only a kind of threatening since ppl still play although saying it each update) because your job did not get as good upgrades as other jobs lol you should maybe take a break for a few days, its just childish. every job is still interesting to play, if you dont like the game anymore and its only addiction keeping you playing, dare to quit, youre wasting your time otherwise.
Fenrir.Weewoo
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Weewoo 2010-12-01 13:10:23
Just remember guys, a job's updates are like pendulums. Sometimes it'll swing in your favor and other times it won't. What matters is you stay devoted to what you enjoy playing and in time it duty will call it to the front lines again.
Until then, try a different (more useful) class ^^
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By Phoenix.Smileybone 2010-12-01 13:16:25
Fenrir.Weewoo said: Just remember guys, a job's updates are like pendulums. Sometimes it'll swing in your favor and other times it won't. What matters is you stay devoted to what you enjoy playing and in time it duty will call it to the front lines again.
Until then, try a different (more useful) class ^^
This.
91-99 hopefully won't be abyssea which will mean we'll probably be getting some new endgame thing at those levels which will probably restore things to their former relative balance.
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Server: Asura
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 13:16:59
Phoenix.Smileybone said: Fenrir.Weewoo said: Just remember guys, a job's updates are like pendulums. Sometimes it'll swing in your favor and other times it won't. What matters is you stay devoted to what you enjoy playing and in time it duty will call it to the front lines again.
Until then, try a different (more useful) class ^^
This.
91-99 hopefully won't be abyssea which will mean we'll probably be getting some new endgame thing at those levels which will probably restore things to their former relative balance.
woohoo samurai!!!!!!!!!
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By Odin.Chazzyphizzle 2010-12-01 14:32:14
going to assume vagrua's monks dont have ascetics fury, victory smite, or razed ruin. and then i am going to assume they suck too bad to get said atma.
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-01 14:44:29
Curing Waltz V (DNC Lv.87 Ability Delay: 23 sec.)
well *** me, another waltz i wont be using....
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By Asura.Matzilla 2010-12-01 14:45:00
Odin.Chazzyphizzle said: going to assume vagrua's monks dont have ascetics fury, victory smite, or razed ruin. and then i am going to assume they suck too bad to get said atma.
What is atma?
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By Odin.Chazzyphizzle 2010-12-01 14:46:26
i dunno but in ff3 it was a big monster, and a sword whose damage scaled with hp, so maybe it's a good pld sword crafting mat?
Another update with plenty of whining and moaning about which jobs *didn't* get an uber upgrade. Boo-hoo. Wah-waaaah.
People, Red Mage isn't going to replace Paladin as an expert in damage mitigation and enmity control ... ever. Nor is Scholar going to "replace" Red Mage as a master of Enfeebling Magic ... ever. Disappointed that Thief didn't get insane melee buffs? Oh, I guess you missed the part where Thief isn't a real melee damage-dealer ... it's only been that way forever.
The only thing that will really "die" in this update is DRK subjob for mages, since Stun becomes available to BLM @ level 45. Another potentially-overlooked subjob feature is that NIN subjob will be able to cast Kurayami: Ni (lvl 44). Kurayami: Ni is (currently) the only Ninja spell that triggers yellow !! Abyssea weakness that can not be used by NIN sj.
Also, should we be shocked that WAR got a fairly nice new JA? No, we shouldn't. All the other 2-hand melee classes will now have the ability to use Aggressor (WAR lvl 45) with WAR sj. Only fair that WAR main-job gets a little boost, right?
As a "career" BLM, I admit to being jealous/peeved about Scholar receiving native Stoneskin/Blink, but to be honest, S-E probably should have given those spells to SCH from the beginning. It remains to be seen if Light Arts will be required to access Stoneskin/Blink for SCH. Elemental Celerity and Enmity Douse look promising, and we all know BLMs have been pining for Blizzard V!
I'm a little disappointed that Store TP V isn't making an appearance for SAM, but it still may happen en route to lvl 99.
The only job/group that probably was legitimately treated unfairly in this update is Dark Knight. They'll just have to take solace in Aggressor @ lvl 90, and/or maybe actually learn how to use Sekkanoki (last update) with SAM sj. And don't forget this, and this, and we've yet to see DRK AF3 hands stats.
And who doesn't love the idea of a "TH" shot for Ranger?
Also, COR/RNG can soon look forward to Velocity Shot (RNG lvl 45), which could be very useful.
Can't wait to see if MNK subjob becomes more viable (Subtle Blow III and Counterstance are MNK lvl 45), especially in Abyssea when combined with Atmas of the Gnarled Horn and Strangling Wind.
Overall, awesome-looking update.
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