Are Relics Still Good At 85?

Hello, I know I'll get 500 answers that are snotty but if 1 person could tell me if Relics are still worth it?

Preferably someone who has one or has seen if they are still competitive or not @Lv85.

Thank you in advance.

inb4 Spharai

If you don't do the trials no.

If you do the trials yes.

Apoc for example is a 27 Base damage increase 103 --> 130 and 20 -->30 Acc

damnit, Yinsha.

Thank you Woodman.

Actually some have even become better.
Take Spharai and Ragnarok as an example.
Provided you keep up with the painful trials they require to get better stats, Relic weapons will always be the best, if not second ( some Empyrean weapons are better now ) best weapons available.

I know some of the Empyreon Weaponskills are absolutely broken, so the Empyreon Weapons are pretty top notch themselves.

However, Relic Weapons are still amazing @ 85 for the most part, a lot of work, but still good.

I really wonder why the hell SE had to give Relic owners such painful trials. As if finishing a relic weapon wasn't a pain in the *** already.

Then they add insult to injury by making some of them second-best to weapons that take far less effort to get.

all this talk from people without relics!

The biggest thing about many relics isnt always pure damage output. Sure, some relics are crappy while others remain the absolute highest damaging weapon available for their class. It's a good bet that a few Empyrean weapons will simply surpass their relic counterparts in terms of pure weapon skill damage (even when assuming fully upgraded relics through Magian Trials). Masamune comes to mind in this case.

HOWEVER, many of the best relics (Apoc, Amano, Annihilator, Excal... we'll exclude Aegis/G-horn for this purpose) allow the player to do things no other weapon could and therefore allow for entirely different and more destructive play styles. This is where their true potential lies.

Apoc owners being able to basically never die through self-healing Catastrophes. 4-manning Nidhogg in like 15 minutes with two Apoc DRKs, a RDM and a BRD is rediculous... Nid cant even come close to killing them. Amano owners throwing a constant barrage of skillchains and weaponskills... back to back lights can be absolutely destructive. Annihilator owners can literally obliterate a mob and never attract their attention. Excal allows PLDs to not only exponentially increase their melee damage output (ever seen a PLD solo DD khim/cerb/nid/faf? it's crazy lol) but also gives them a 10/tick regen effect during aftermath, making them that much harder to kill.

Sorry... but there's nothing that comes close to being able to do those things. Just like everything else in this game, though, it's all situational. It's impossible to say that all relics are better than all Empyrean weapons, and you cannot prove the opposite, either.

Though, one MAJOR deficit to Empyrean weapons is the lack of decent Aftermath for any of the weaponskills. Occasionally deals double damage is the aftermath for every single one, and relic weapons already have 2.5 to 3 times damage as an innate feature (and no need to activate aftermath for it to occur). None of them, as far as I know, do anything else... so they'll add nothing new to your play style. They're just high damage weapons. In this respect, relics will ALWAYS outshine Empyreans.

Yes

/thread.

Gugnir would have a word with you on Aftermath usefulness. I'm sure there are others as well, but I can't think of them.

Now I haven't done enough research into the Empyreans, but I have often read that Relic weapons "proc" increased damage 5-10% of the time. If either Magnus weapons OR Mythic weapon aftermaths are used as an example, the Empyrean aftermath of double damage is most likely 40-60% activation.

Now it is pretty nice that relic WS have low enmity. However, any real damage from a relic weapon and it's special function can be parsed, and has to actually beat an empyrean weapon for it to matter. Amano with back to back Light skillchains means nothing if Masamune simply outputs more damage. (Just an example, I don't know which is a better weapon.)

Relics are cool. Don't be too quick to judge for OR against them.

Did you just have a "ffxi life crisis". Because feeling the need to point out non relic owners as if we were uncapable of realizing what Relics are good for sounded pretty much like that, or an elitist show.

None of us said anything bad about relics, actually we were all supporting them as the best or second best weapons for the jobs out there and felt te pain it must be to have to endure those ToM after already working so damn hard over 1 item.

Well, looking at the Empryean weapons, they still look somewhat incomplete even with the new WS and aftermath. I think it's safe to say the next update will make the Empryean weapons a lot better (as with relics of course).

Empyrean WS have a Tier 3 skillchain primary property anyway, so that's nothing special in Amano's favor... ODD is 30% iirc? Maybe 40%.

Spharai are still good for tanking, Bravura's aftermath is still nice, GHorn's not as good but still nice... I guess if you really need self-healing Apoc is win, but I have to give the advantage to Redemption otherwise. Excal still has utility but... see PLD thread. Melee solo RDM gogo? Gun/bow I guess. Not seeing any other relics I'd be willing to invest in at this point in time given the simultaneous superiority and lesser time investment of Empyreans. Pretty scary given the state of affairs not so long ago... and again, the massive discrepancy in difficulty/time investment. I just don't get it.

Kind of funny/sad how mythics aren't even worth mentioning besides like death penalty lol.

Ryunohige is cool! A few of the mythics, though I can't think of which off the top of my head, got boosted enough by trials to be pretty respectable.

Well, as I stated not every relic weapon is as useful as others. You'll notice I never stated weapons such as Gugnir (easily the worst aftermath of them all), Spharai, Kikoku, Ragnarok... even Yoichi. Many of the relic aftermaths are mediocre at best, while some are incredible and add a huge amount of depth to the job.


And you got this information where?

Triple damage procs on Annihilator, Amano, Apoc are well over 5-10% of them time. I know this because I see them in action literally every day. I couldnt nail down an exact figure, but I'd estimate more around 15-20%. Either way, triple damage procs on these relic weapons are an innate feature, instead of an aftermath, automatically making them more valuable no matter the proc rate.


There's actually only one relic weaponskill that lowers enmity, that being Coronach from the Annihilator. And yes, all damage from a relic weapon and it's special functions can be parsed. But again, it's not all about pure damage.

You say an Amano with back to back Light skillchains means nothing if Masamune simply outputs more damage. This may be true when looking at a strict numbers only parse, pertaining to one solo SAM versus another solo SAM. What the parse didnt tell you is that the Amano was able to do these simultaneous light skillchains, allowing more opportunities for your mages to magic burst and therefore increasing the entire alliance's overall damage output in a shorter amount of time. The more efficiently your alliance works with stuff like this, the better you'll perform as a group.

Empryeans have also proved capable of double darkness/lights just like relics have which is interesting.

Yagrush, Nirvana, Ryunohige, Burtgang,Death Penalty,Carnwenhan and more are actually pretty useful. Unfortunately as of now, mythic weapons are probably the hardest weapons to obtain. And they weren't even mentioned by the OP anyways

Old post on BG iirc, probably that relic/mythic information thread from a year or so ago.

lol

Psh 14 pdt, less emnity loss from dmg taken and 14 emnity. Assuming pld is useful and it is taking any dmg I'd call it useful

Thing here is that no one actually "needs" self-healing unless you're in a solo situation. The difference comes in when your mages no longer need to spend their time healing you. This allows them the time and resources to focus on other aspects of the battle, whether it be enfeebling, enhancing, nuking, or whatever else they feel the need to do rather than cure you.

Your situation overall increases because of this.

Sovereign thank you for the wonderful response. IMO a lot of the super weapons are things to use in team situations with ur ls. So many people are focused on parsing high they seem to forget there might be other things they could to do help seal the victory. I'd imagine some of the weapons require thinking outside the box to use...and perhaps some are lol. Lol or not i'm still going for conqueror...still got a little ways to go, but I think it will fit my style of play well and ultimately why I chose pursuing it over bravura.

Anyways, yes, relics are still worth it. However i'd take a look at some WoE trial weapons/abyssea drop weapons to keep you happy in the meantime. Good luck.

i can't count to three

good thing i've got this here burtgang that allows me to freely count to face

My name is AoE move.

Right cause no one every takes dmg... which just means pld is 100% useless as a tank. Since half the jobs out there are capable of generation more emnity.

Show me a pld that never takes any dmg and I'll show you a fight you didn't need a tank especially a pld one

Curing yourself back to full is more than enough to recap CE and will also recap your VE in the process. That's never been a particularly interesting feature Burtgang unfortunately, though it's not really a fault of the weapon itself as the exact enmity mechanics. The enmity is pretty marginal and offset by less frequent Atonements. PDT... /shrug. 5 PDT more than Shamshir +1, it's nice if you're bloodtanking but it's not worth expending resources that could have gone into an Excal instead.

which are commonly magical damage if they wipe shadows and/or go through them, so that sure did a lot of good for you




had to dig for this ss here, but yea, terra's staff has -20% physical, so it's obviously better than burtgang by default

inb4 99% of the game is situational revelations