Utsusemi: Ichi Or Ni First?

Hey, I have been wondering if there is a correct way to use Ninja shadows when your main is not set to Ninja. I've seen players cast Utsusemi: Ni before they engage a fight.

Like if I were DD/NIN, would the right way be casting Ichi first, let Ichi timer cooldown, engage mob, start casting Ichi AFTER SECOND SHADOW fades. By the time the monster takes off the second shadow and I begin casting Ichi again, the monster will have striken again taking the 3rd shadow off and Ichi will still be casting and then replenished.

Basically after that its either check to see if Ichi is up depending if the mob missed you a few times or Ni, after all 3 Ichi shadows have be hit off because it's way faster.

I cannot see using Ni first will benefit, because Ni overwrites Ni but not Ichi. While Ichi overwrites Ichi, and Ni overwrite Ichi WHEN ICHI IS ACTIVE.

Is this right?

Just click off Ni when you cast Ichi... who cares which you cast first?

Depends how quick you have to rush into battle, but it's better to use Ichi before engaging though.

I usually cast Ni before a fight, and then during the fight switch back and forth depending on timers.... if you can time it right, (much more easier now with the # of shadows left being displayed)you wont waste a 3rd shadow if your casting when 1 is still up.. if you start casting it while you are at 1 shadow, and the mob is frequent in hitting at you, you can guesstimate that the shadow will be lost before casting is done... sometimes this works, sometimes it doesnt, but you will still have 3 shadows up none the less.( the only reason i use NI first is because by the time you would pop/engage a mob, the timer on Ni is more than likely going to be up anyway... but i guess you could use ichi before hand too.

If I'm soloing and fixing to engage a mob, I usually use Ichi since it takes longer to cast, so that I'm pretty much guaranteed I'll be able to get 3 more shadows after those wear off (since Ni is like almost instant)

If I'm in a PT, I usually use Ni, as I'm never tank, and don't do enough damage usually right off the bat to take hate.

I avoid using Ichi whenever possible regardless of solo or PT, just because if the mob is a high enough level I actually need to use them, they have a high tendency to get interrupted.

Yes but but you have to time it just right. If you don't the mob could interrupt your cast or you may get Ichi to have no effect and have no shadows at all.

fixed

Or start casting Ichi just as you're about to lose your last shadow, the same way you said to do Ichi > Ichi. It's like FFXI 101

Ichi onry. ni for emergency.

OMG I was going to post this today ... GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

Anyway, I go back and forth when fighting, but usually start with Ichi up (provided I have ample time for both to have cooled down). As a DD, I generally like to think of Ichi as my "main" shadow and Ni is the "backup" because of recast times (I play Monk, fyi). Given that, I prefer to have Ichi up all the time.

I could also argue that the long cast time during a fight for Ichi will also lessen my DoT, but I've found that if I'm taking heat on DD I'll probably have it for a few swings until tank regains hate, so I like to have my max options open to me. Time wise, I find it's easier to be Ichi >> Ni >> Ichi >> out of shadows (waiting on Ni) rather than doing Ni >> Ichi >> out of shadows, if that makes sense.

NIN main? Ni.
Otherwise? Ichi.

When i'm RDM/NIN I would use ichi first, so I end up Ichi > Ichi > Ni, then if I have to I learned the right time during cast to take off Ni for ichi, the sweet spot for taking Ni off differs depending on how much fast cast you have.

From a DD/NIN standpoint, i think most people try use Ni as much as possible because its the fastest to cast, meaning they have more time for whacking at the mob.

If you know you absolutley need to use Ni to survive, use it otherwise its Ichi > Ichi

Edited: some english fails

Now you got me thinking, idk if this is dumb but would a macroing in a Loquacious Earring when casting Ichi be worth it?

Yes...it's called an utsusemi casting gear set. (macro in Fastcast and haste(for recast timers), and PDT in other slots where you don't have fastcast and/or haste)