Piracy, Is It Truly Wrong?

I am surprised Jaerik, as an affected professional, hasn't chimed in on this one yet.

Something to the effect of "CFO's now anticipate a certain degree of revenue loss from all of you guys torrenting and seeding cracked copies of Sorority Life, and as a result Playdom offsets a portion of those lost sales back onto the consumer, not just on that one product, but across all of their products as production overhead" no? Or some corporate financial logic of that nature?

I live in San Jose, CA, USA, and our big hometown company is Adobe...so I hear that logic being used all the time in explaining why the price of Adobe CS5 (or whatever current new thing is out) is so high. It's always seemingly saddled squarely onto the software piracy and IP issue, however sound or dubious that logic is in the real world.

While it does seem like some faceless entity that can write off loss with simple creative book-keeping and Generally Accepted Criminal Accounting Procedures, even I have to stop being cynical to a point and realise that there is an undeniable production and development overhead at Adobe and price-per-unit and business cycle profitability must overcome that overhead. Whether the steep price tag for CS5 (as an example) now is an accurate or modest representation of that effort is the point of contention.

In regard to piracy, I myself certainly agree that it is pervasive, and I certainly agree it won't go away, and I certainly see some without any other options taking that route. For sure I used cracked versions of Adobe products back when I was in college and had no money...but now as a working professional I have no such excuse, no?

So on the subject of whether it is right/wrong (or wrong/not-wrong) what it comes down to is it is against the law, because it is viewed as loss of potential sales. We live in a society run by laws that exchange liberties for protections, some of which we agree with personally and some we don't, but those that choose not to obey a specific law (such as recreational drug users, etc.) they see as "unjust" or infringing on their personal liberties are still subject to that law.

For certain, legislators that made such enforcement regulations listened much closer to RIAA and JAILED and other corporate interests than they would have to individual torrent users, but those laws still apply so long as we live in society and/or don't petition to have them changed. With recent judicial decisions in the US that grant rights to corporations that would normally be reserved for individual citizens, the notion of tort-law damages being brought to bear on software pirates isn't going to go away, either.

US courts all the time award for "conceptual loss" or "projected income" damages as a result of civil tort actions, not just actual losses. That "potential sales" figure, no matter how cloudy or nebulous a notion for an individual person to reconcile, does legally exist--even if a company cannot quantify that number specifically.

TLDR version:

Pirating won't go away, and as a result, corporations will justify marking up prices, leading undoubtedly to more piracy. "Wrong" or "not wrong", piracy is illegal however; and while it is understandable and so pervasive that almost everyone has done it at some point, those that do so should at least be mentally prepared for potential consequences.

We want to watch movies with outstanding Special Effects, Explosions, Costumes, Celebrities, etc. All these cost money. Although I Disagree paying a single actor 20MM to part take on a movie, there's a lot of people and livelyhoods affected in one way or another to Piracy. Like the other 90% of movie industry non-union low wages workers, freelancers, and contractors pushing stuff around.

MPAA is always complaining they are loosing BILLIONS from PIRACY. YOU CAN NOT LOOSE WHAT YOU DID NOT EARN. Thus, they are not loosing. Not According to JAmes Cameron's AVATAR after effect.
This is WHY NOBODY is shelling out $35.00 for a brand new BLU RAY MOVIE, with exception of those who are.
1. RICH in relation to the price of a MOVIE.
2. Buying new movies is your Hobby.
3. You are plain IDIOT who just spent your $150.00 Burger King pay check in a few New Releases.

Since I am neither of the above I would just say, if new releases will be made more affordable, less people would have to resort to Piracy. However, even if prices would be lower i.e. in the USA... there are still 95-98% of people in China that will never be able to afford a $10-20-30 DVD, on a $2-5 a day salary.

So piracy will go on, it is not right but neither is wrong.
It all depends in which Social/Financial class you stand on, and what your priorities are.

Make a movie that's not ***that I would want to buy and I'll buy it.
If it's a piece of ***you don't deserve my money for wasting my time.
That's the way I see it.
Too many high budget poor plot movies.

Game developers work their *** off to make these games. Personally, I've worked 80ish hours a week since June (7 days a week, normally) to bring a game that millions of people will pirate in the coming months.

That sucks.

Personally, I don't care that you can't afford to buy the game. Maybe if you did something other than pirate every game and beat it you'd have time to get a skill and get a job to purchase the games you want to play.

I'm also a hypocrite, because I will pirate 3 things.

1) Out of print music albums that I cannot buy anywhere but eBay
2) local network (CBS NBC FOX etc) Television shows (because they're broadcast over the airwaves and I believe they should be in the open domain)
3) HBO and Showtime shows, because I'm more than willing to pay HBO and Showtime $15 a month each for their programming, but the cable companies require me to buy 700 other channels to get access and that's lame. HBO/Showtime employees listening? I'll give you my money. Just give me a way to give it directly to you.

Figured I'd show you both ends of the coin. Everyone justifies what they do in some way, and I'm sure my personal piracy decisions hurt someone somewhere as well. But video games I'll take personally, and I'm interested to hear anyone's arguments on my 3 piracies listed above (or justifications to why 20 million dollar games should be free and that's why you pirated Fallout 3).


While I agree with this to a point, unfortunately you're still required to pay the money to see that piece of ***. If it's really that shitty, just take your friends word for it and don't bother pirating and wasting 2 hours of your life watching it.

I will also add that I rarely pirate any of the above 3 things, as how often are music albums *really* out of print, and I pay for hulu plus and netflix streaming. The only exception is #3 and I'm just waiting for someone to give me a way to buy it.

you'll never stop the piracy movement, no matter how much you get butthurt about it.

The greatest thing in the world is the thing that's FREE, and in that regard, people will keep downloading copies of that new movie, or that kick-*** album by Eminem.

Metallica bitched about it, and their albums got shittier. Some people got arrested and fined out the ***, but they're just few out of the masses.

/raises fist

the government will never stop all of us.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you don't think pirating affects corporations and consumers alike. Pirating, as Schutz commented previously, raises the bottom line on prices for all consumers who pay for it. Those are the consumers that support the industry and keep them afloat to make more and more of what entertains us.

This happens in almost every aspect of sales so I really shouldn't be surprised. Companies go through a hole process to determine the price of their product. Now before I say anything else companies are selling a product to make a profit and most times little else than that.

That may seem heartless and whatnot but its a business and they support not only themselves but all of their employees. Companies not only consider things like cost of materials, production, trasportation, advertising, and so forth they always take theft into account as well whether it be intellectual or theft of a physical product.

I worked at a retail store when I was 16 and Toys 'R' Us averaged around $350,000 of inventory stolen a year. Think about how many copies of these games, CD's, movies are copied and distributed. Take for example 50,000 copies of your [insert hot new game here] at 60$ a pop thats 3 million dollars. Now let's just say that only 50% of those that pirated it would actually buy it if it wasn't avaliable illegaly thats still 1.5 million.

The people that truly get hurt by pirating are the consumers that actually buy the product. The companies raise prices to meet thier goals but still also make less than they would have although some of you might like to think differently. There are other companies out there that sell games as well, ones that aren't big like Gamestop that are affected as well.

You can make up any excuse you like and try to spin your story to show your actions in a favorable light but in the end theft is theft whether it be taking a physical product or copying one. Theft is wrong and it is illegal as it should be. As for those of you that wouldn't be able to afford it otherwhise I feel for you but there are those out there that can't even afford the things you can the basic needs + a few extras (ffxi) as someone listed. Granted most of these companies are not hurting for revenue I can't see how using the fact that you can't afford it is a reason for theft unless maybe in the case of it being a necessity for you or your family to live another day. I'm not sure if that will seem harsh or not but yea.

I always try to think of living life by the golden rule "Do unto others as you would do unto yourself" I doubt any of you would want people pirating your property. As for using pirated property as sort of a rental you can pay as much as you do now for ffxi to rent from gamefly.

I believe its $16 a month for one game at a time and $25 for two. I guess it's more of a moral issue nowadays as most people never get punished for using pirated copies. But please, don't try to trick yourselves into thinking that its ok to pirate.

*fixed (Thanks Bart)

Then don't watch the movie at all?

I don't feel good about pirating, but I do it. I guess I'm a hypocrite or some such.

Thanks! lol

It's weird for me. I pirate the *** out of music, but I buy all my games, lol. So far I haven't made any purchases I've regretted (maybe like one or two). At the same time, my parents have paid for just about every video game I have so far, so...

Either way, most of the games I get are console exclusive (recent stuff, as if there's a Xbox 360 emulator...) or heavy online play, causing me to buy it anyway.

I have trouble sitting through movies so I don't download or buy 'em.

Not that I'm mad, It's pretty obvious people are going to continue to pirate regardless of what anyone says or does for a number of different reasons. I can't however understand how people come on here and think that pirating is a) not theft and b) doesn't affect anyone.

I didn't read the whole thread so I will only say this..

IMO.

Yes it is wrong..But then again so is speeding.

And I always speed.

or c). people who pirate just do not care.

Ticket prices went up recently, which probably drove more people to download movies. I dont think anyone would wanna pay $12.50 a person to see a movie.

Music nowadays suck for most artists out there (I blame stupid kids for this), and I dont think people are gonna shell out $15~$30 for a cd either.

It's not theft, it's copying.

its human nature to do the wrong thing even though we know its wrong.

Speeding, smoking, pre-marital sex, violence, drinking, pirating... take your pick.

Why would I have to take a friends word for it? Never mentioned that I had friends in that post.
I am a hermit.
JK, but I really didn't mention anything about friends.
My point of the matter is that I am not going to condone the behavior of flashy movies and shitty plots.
So when I watch a flashy movie with a shitty plot I am going to do my best to not pay for that movie because that will make them think that they should make more flashy movies with shitty plots.

It's logic man, promote the stuff you like and don't promote the ***. If I were to get/watch this movie at let's say a place of business...yes yes I would be required to pay my dues.
But since I pay for my internet service I do say I pay a certain amount of money to watch movies that I am not going to buy. If I do happen to like the movie I usually buy it, not rarely...literally usually.

I have the same philosophy with Music really :/ But I do support the bands past that if I happen to enjoy what they create. And usually I don't give it the time of day if I wouldn't since we can listen to a lot of things just via streaming video/audio.
I do pay for netflix but that pretty much acts as a money pit for the most part when I don't use it.
It really just depends on the quality of the service and what I get with my money.
I actually try to do this for the most part.
But hell sometimes you get flops :/
Movies that look like they'd be good but in reality blow.

The ***?

the 6 deadly sins.

Yeah, I said it you virgin, PRE-MARITAL SEX is not only wrong, but its considered to be a sin.

I too think pirating is wrong, and can proudly say I have never pirated any music, movies, or video games!

Never? You've never own'd a burned cd? You've never borrowed a game from a friend?

Alright fine maybe borrowing a game doesn't count but you get my point. I am almost 100% sure in some sort of way you have benefited from something pirated.

To the *** Catholics, who do it anyway. Cause, ya know, religious beliefs are to be imposed on the world.

yeah, cz most of us Catholics would prefer to test drive the product before buying it

All these videos, movies, tv shows, mp3s, games, application, etc. that are available to download off the internet are for novelty purposes only. If you want the real thing then go out and buy it.