Ursine Claws - Broken?

My little brother recently fully upgraded his Wargfangs to the Ursine Claws with Occasionally attacks 2-3 times. They work just fine when he punches with them, but when he uses them with footwork up, they only ever attack twice. They have never triple attacked under footwork, so either they're broken or SE doesn't want them to work under footwork. Anyone know anything about this?

They still DA at a rather ridiculous rate compared to the OAT, so I'd guess it to be a deliberate adjustment of some sort.

OAT2~3 with Footwork (and the proper boots) would be way way broken. The point of the OA2~3 weapons was for them to have really crappy damage rating and a higher than normal delay. Footwork completely bypasses the 2 downsides to these weapons, so I think we're lucky that SE let the Occ.Atk.# weapons affect Footwork at all.

But yes, as it currently stands, you cannot attack 3 times in one attack round with Footwork. Also, like Nightfyre said, the OA2~3 ones have the benefit of double attacking under footwork more often than the OA2 ones.

It has 70% DA rate right now, so it's already broken.

It outparses the level 80 relic unless you have full usukane, black belt and are getting chaos roll and double marches, in which case it's only 6% worse (the only things saving spharai in that case being the Job ability penalizing ursine+footwork way too much). In this case anyway, RDM+ursine claw x3 is outperforming RDM+spharai+brd+cor ...

So did MNK get its 'groove' back? As a DD?

MNK always had a pretty vicious groove, especially if you could /WAR and pop Counterstance. OA2-3, Poise Shoes, and Tornado Kick just pushed it over the top.

How does the new perfect counter fair with /WAR and counterstance? In Abyssea for example?

@Pchan

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have any parses showing that? I keep seeing people who claim things like shenlongs beating sphari, and destroyers comming very close. Most claims people make on this game are extremely exaggerated and generalized without adequate testing. My LS has been building h2h for a member and I'm curious if my investment is being wasted. XD

The normal 2-3 attack weapons have a proc rate of 50:30:20 So that is in 100 hits you'd get and extra 70 hits. The 2-3 attack hands under kick attacks give u those 70 hits in double attack form as opposed to the triple attacks. I have the 2-3 attack sword so i know the 50:30:20 bit is right but i have yet to get the 2-3 h2h weapon. If it is in fact a 70% double attack on those then i wouldn't worry to much about it since it all equals out.

In uncapped acc situations they were correct, pre-TotM. For recent math I'd look here and be sure to read the notes that follow. If you're not aware, lynnminmay = pchan.

You will only have the answer at level 99 when we know the final form on each path. If you ask me, doing dynamis right now is a waste lol because at 99 you will be much stronger and get more coins with less people ..

those do not beat the new spharai do not get ahead of yourselves.

"those do not beat the new spharai do not get ahead of yourselves."

The math was done against level 80 spharai, try reading maybe ?

This is a gross exaggeration. In no way whatsoever would OA2-3 FW with only rdm support beat Spharai with rdm+brd+cor (all other things being equal, of course).

Which math are you guys going by? Unless I read wrong, Kine's math showed that with High-end gear that Spharai won over Ursine (2-3)

Not sure. But the mnk/nin in my salvage ls has more or less killed bosses in about 12-15 only taking AOE dmg the entire fight partly because of it.

Don't think you read pimpchan's entire post.

Never build relic unless you have all items and currency.

Biggest mistake of my life, in XI anyway.

He's saying RDM MNK MNK MNK with OA2-3 all around beats RDM BRD COR MNK with Spharai, which is a stupid comparison because you don't stack that kind of support around a single DD in most situations. RDM BRD MNK MNK OA2-3 probably beats both if you're just going with 4 people...

I meant BRD+RDM+COR+spharai is always inferior to RDM+usrine monks x3. 2x march is ~ 50% more damage. COR is ~ 20%. You can always add the contribution of COR and BRD (why not RDM...) to melee, I doubt the total of COR+RDM+BRD damage is going to beat 50% of the monk, so this combo is worth ~ two spharai with no double marches.

So you are compraing RDM+ spharaix2 to RDM+ursinex3. Obviously ursine wins. Now if you want something more realistic (6-man party) you want to compare

BRD+RDM+COR+spharaix3 to
RDM+BRD+ursinex4

Using the above compraison, in the first setup COR boost each spharai by ~ 20%, so you do the same damage as 3.6 spharai with no COR. In the end the first setup is only winning if ursine does less than 90% of the spharai's damage, which no math as shown so far, as the worse math has it -8%, with capped gear. The only thing that can save you is the cor meleeing (hi2you TP spam and ***damage).




Now a much more realistic is to include a THF for treasure hunter (think salvage, limbus, ..). You are back to 2 spharai vs 3 ursine, ursine wins.

Then you can consider mix situations


BRD+RDM+COR+spharaix3 to
RDM+BRD+ursinex3+spharaix1 or ursinex2 spharaix2

again the second option wins.

note : this has actually more to do with the fact that COR is waste of space ; i'm sure things are different with DNC, but how practicle is that ?










In this setup ursine wins if you don't have high-end gear, as alla math for low end gear uses double march. Basically it wins if your spharai gear is inferior to full usu+ BB.

@ pchan

wierd math is wierd.

So... how does it compare 1 to 1? If a top geared Spharai MNK switches over to Ursine Claws, is he going to do more or less damage? Surely any support you add or take away from that is going to have much the same effect percentage wise? Maybe it's just me, but it seems like all these examples where you're swapping support members for monks and so forth is kind of avoiding the actual question of "how well do Ursine Claws perform".

Its not weird and its very vaild what he is saying but wtf does it matter unless ur a monk Blazza with all respect lol, as for Ghaleon ur wEIrd!.

Taking into consideration the info Pchan has given us though I would come to conclusion :

If you own spharai dont bother with ursine by 99 spharai will no doubt win.

If you only do salvage really and dont care much bout putting work in for ursine dont lol, salvage is a hell of a lot easier to do faster now anyway even with destroyers you are looking at 8-9min SSR mb with charms where as before it was around 12-15.

If you are working on empy weapon and have the means to obtain all the items needed from abyssea this could possibly trump OAT weapon next update never know.

And finally if youre gonna do ursine claw build do it right w/e that means exactly not sure cos im not doing one but I think it involves ocelot gloves and tiercel neck and kyoshu kyahan.

Oh and also bare in mind ursine claw footwork tping I assume feeds the mob alot less tp for the dmg youre doing, 5 hit build? then 1k ws then 5 hit repeated, not nearly as bad as tp feed caused by tping with footwork down (could be useful for salvage bosses potentially allowing 3 monks to stay engaged without seeing the boss spam tp moves too fast).

Naw cor will benefit spharai ALOT more

Wait... really? Why would someone even think to compare that... so basically 3>1? Um, derp.

@Basilo, I was basically trying to say what Terminus just did.

Thank you. Usually I feel like a moron or like I am missing some sort of obvious part of how to play ffxi when I read the forums... at least I know there's one person, one time, who didn't shake their head at me. :D

Because this comparison makes absolutely no sense unless you systematically zerk stuff in alliance. I mean if we go this route glanzfaust is probably superior ...



Now it depends on many things, but for 50% of things I would do on monk I only get haste and dia3, 25% I get double march (dumbamis, lamebus ?), and the last 25% I get just haste .. COR/haste samba/avatar's flavor you basically never get them..