Subjob After Update?

From what I'm seeing it's gonna be /RDM.. Just wondering if I should bother getting SCH lvl too or something else? Will it be worth my time?

Like before, had /SMN and /BLM for dif situations but when SCH came out that was pretty much done deal.. Just wondering if it's gonna be like that with /RDM or do I need to lvl SCH etc at well?

Like everything it is situational. However right now if you aren't getting refresh pretty sure /sch cast more mps worth of spells. Now at 82+ where you will definitely have refresh that is different.

/sch still allows you to land debuffs easier and giving you more. It also will up your enhancing skill for better bar spells.

Probably lvl sch rdm blm to 40 to sub.
Lots of good combinations ganna be out i think.
Like:
Thf/Dnc
Whm/sch
Sch/mageish job
(Any DD)/sam cuz sekkanoki
(fast hitting dd/solo)/dnc dualwield and heals
Rdm/Sch aoe buffs
Drk/sch epic drains maybe
Cor/whm more than ever
But I think ganna be more melee subbing sam or dnc fulltime
maybe Blm/smn for manawall lol? idk

but yeah /sch would be good for aoe buffs and light/dark arts and what not
/rdm for convert allows you to nuke more/heal more/buff more :D
be fun stuff

You never specified what main but i'll assume whm since thats what i see you on currently :P. My guess is that you'll need both /sch and /rdm both have incredible uses.

/sch
Sublimation is supreme when you don't have someone refreshing you that goes without saying. Light Arts makes your cures more efficient. Now @ 80 with accession you can do really neat stuff some examples are Haste-ga, regen 3-ga, stoneskin-ga, etc.

/rdm
The only time i see whm having to sub rdm is when an actually RDM with refresh is present. /SCH sublimation < Refresh normally. Hopefully the rdm will be subbin sch also to take care of hastes but no big deal there since we've been living without haste-ga to this very day. nice things about /rdm @80 is vert and possibly ice spikes if your plannin on cure bombing and phalanx to go with it. Itll be hard for a whm to run out of mp with proper refresh and vert

Well posted in the WHM forum :) Thx- for checking though- yea WHM will be my first lvled up. But yea that's what I was afraid(?) of- have to lvl both XD lol

atm we dont know if we can hastega so dont count it like a bonus for /sch.
And dont forget aspirga which can be a nice thing in dynamis, limbus, ...


For /rdm we dont know if refresh will be 3 MP / tick so again we can not say anything about it. And no it's not hard to be mpless with convert and refresh, cause convert will have a 10 min recast (if not more, look how they change the recast of Accession/Manifestation).


Also it's a mistake to only compare this 2 sub, in term of MP conservation only (i dont say someone did it in this topic, but i know many ppl are focus only on this), cause /sch will also give you a combo Accession + na spell (when esuna/DS is not ready), some buffga, protectra 5 and shellra 5 for other pt, ...

Imo /sch is still better than /rdm, but since you have both lev 37, you can quickly level them to 41 with a ronfaure pt, to be ready to test both yourself ;)

I'd say Sublimation > Refresh personally.

Refresh: 150MP - 40 (for casting)
Sublimation: 200MP+ (Personally I get 276 without any specific setup for it) - 0MP. It can also be used to keep you awake!

The only difference is, Refresh gives you the MP there and then; Sublimation gives you the MP when you want it.

it shouldnt be too dificult to maintain a decent amount of mp when playing whm/sch. while sublimation charges u can always make good use of penury to keep the mp cost of stuff like curaga II+ at a reasonable level. /sch also lets u aspir mobs for a decent amount if the mobs u are fighting happen to have mp. i usually get about 100+ mp every time i aspir which is great for maintaining ur mp pool full. i personally do not see /rdm being more useful than /sch just because of convert.

Update so good for subbing something other than /nin now...

/sam is now the new sub of the century lol Conserve TP on drg is also sexy.

rdm/sch = sex. need to get working on sch >.<

The key thing is that unless you are a SCH with the AF hat or Relic Body, you only get 2 mp stored per tick. Compared to Refresh which averages out to 2.2 mp per tick (without using composure). Also, with sublimation, I did not factor in the 30 sec recast after use because the efficiency is also dependent on how long it takes to charge. Let us say you charge to 276. That would take 6 min and 54 secs. After you factor in the recast, you get an average of 1.865 mp per tick, much less than refresh's average of 2.2 mp per tick. On the other hand, it is nice to hold on to a sublimation charge and be able to use it whenever you need it, so you be the judge.

Honestly, this alone is one of the biggest deciding factors for me. A lot of the time I'm on WHM, I'm not normally doing something in a large scale event, normally it's < 6 people in a remotely controlled environment. My MP is normally fairly high, so Refresh generally is wasted (even moreso with me bouncing in and out of Idle gear all the time, increasing and dropping my MP a lot).

There have been occasions when I've told RDM's I need Refresh, purely because I know I don't have the time to wait on Sublimation; I completely agree that over time, generally Refresh will win out.

Personally though the minor MP gain from Refresh over Sublimation (a little under 30MP across the course of 7min), isn't something I think about. I prefer being more self-reliant than needing other people to burn 40MP on me every couple of minutes.

They should release some Sublimation+ gear for All jobs! Give SCH 5mp/tick and WHM 3mp/tick ftw!

But yeah, I agree that the longer a fight goes on, the better Refresh will be in comparison.

Another thing to consider about this topic is that the 2 will be completely situational.

whm/sch should mostly be used for anything you need aoe debuffs on. In addition to this, sublimation is handy for stuff like dynamis or what not when mobs cast sleepga towards you. Not to mention, decreased casting cost of all white magic under light arts. A FULL Sublimation should always be used while traveling to & from events. That way, you can buff up your pt (or parties gogo aoe), pop sub, and be at full mp to begin the refresh order from rdm main.(aka in general most of the time /sch SHOULD be used)

whm/rdm should be used in zergs, when you dump all of your mp curing. Counter argument is the half mp cost for /sch... but really, limited charges, would be better to just have another 1k mp to burn through (900 if you cure yourself)

Side note on this, if your cure build sucks. Wont make a difference what you sub. Bcuz you will always be mp inefficient :)

off topic, blm/rdm going to ROCK! think 1800+ mp to kill on blm!

If refresh is better on paper, the small difference between refresh and sublimation is not enough (for me) to /rdm instead /sch.

The few mp you lost will be recover with the reduces MP costs by 10% of light art + the conserv mp trait, and you can charge it when you do nothing (unlike refresh which is wasted in this case)

Add the fact you can not be slept for 5 min = pure win :P

lol wtf?! /sam has always been THE sub of the century. LOL@ people that /nin in meripos! (other than war for first voke)

You guys do realize that the power of /sch comes from the 10% MP cost, recast, and cast reduction of light arts, right? When you add in the ability to AoE haste, it's really no question that /sch will remain the best sub for whm in almost every single situation.

Well at least whm would be more useful in merit now at that level.

If you're worried about mp there and then aren't you forgetting about BRDs in party?

RDM is a situational SJ and I'd be hellishly scared to use Convert on WHM just because of the enmity WHM gets from curing in the first place. I don't get hate often, but for long endgame fights it does build up and having to run out of range to cure yourself while worrying about tanks isn't exactly viable. If you can get another mage to cure or a tank to do so for hate that would be a bonus, but sometimes it just can't happen.

For now you don't get Refresh with sub anyways so really shouldn't worry about /RDM til 80+. Only other job trait/ability you get from /RDM is Magic Attack Bonus II which is pwn for BLM, but not exactly useful on WHM. Magic Defense Bonus II at 45 will be nice though. :)

Accession from /SCH will PWN in events like Einherjar where time is an issue, being able to hit everyone all at once with Stoneskin or other such spells will be a nice bonus.