Dragoon Taking Over

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2020-03-17
640 users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Dragoon Taking Over
Dragoon Taking Over
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-17 13:50:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You prove very good points yes, but I think this is mainly just for having fun, but kicking *** while doing it, and it's not that you wait for the 200%, yes would be the same as 100%x2 with sekkanoki. But Its actually playing into being able to go over 100%, not ws'ing, spirit linking to score some extra tp to get to 200% faster, instead of burning the wyvern's TP on its breaths.
Unless you proc some nice Conserve TP on your 100% Drakesbanes, then that could potentially be faster.
It will be fun to mess around with and try.
But you mention there needing to be a few hits in between, maybe Im wrong about how Sekkanoki works? But last I checked it only uses 100% TP per ws. Unless its 100% then the remainder? Maybe I'm missing something.

But if you meditate mid Sekkanoki you should have that TP + the jumps is more than enough to finish with that drakes.

Unless of course like I mentioned earlier, I am in fact wrong about something in regards to how Sekkanoki actually works.

And I'm only 41 silver/lungo's away from Gungnir, so a few more months and I wont have to worry about this crap and just go with relic darkness.

But there's also the fact of waiting to see what Sonic Thrust can offer us to play into all this SC fun.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 13:55:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
Spirit Jump:
We could come to the conclusion that it's got the reduced enmity of super jump, and the delay and attack of a regular jump. That's two pimped out jumps, and with a barone or conte piece, even 2 of them thats almost 60 tp when landing all 3.

And that's not even counting whether they double attack or triple attack.

My penis is tingling.
I'd bet more along the lines of some kind of temporary -enmity effect.
 Sylph.Spiriel
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spiriel
Posts: 148
By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-06-17 14:03:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Just more fun speculation. Everyone seems to be assuming Spirit Jump is a physical jump (Jump, High Jump) and not a magical jump (Super Jump). 8D

More fun: Barone doesn't do a damn thing to Super Jump, and I'm pretty sure Skystrider won't either. No free TP there.

To me, Spirit Jump sounds non-physical. And it can't be a 0 enmity attack, because the effect is enhanced by your wyvern being present. Vis a vis, it can't be absolutely 0 and potentially stronger.

Heh... enhanced by wyvern. Now I'm picturing tarus jumping up on their wyvern and flying away XD
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-17 14:05:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I think everyone knows Barone/Conte does nothing to Super Jump, would take a fool to believe that lol.
What I'm saying is it would be great to see Spirit Jump affected by it :O
 Sylph.Spiriel
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spiriel
Posts: 148
By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-06-17 14:15:49
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
I think everyone knows Barone/Conte does nothing to Super Jump, would take a fool to believe that lol.
What I'm saying is it would be great to see Spirit Jump affected by it :O
Which again assumes Spirit Jump (a decidedly non-physical sounding name) is a physical attack at all.

As far as a conserve TP build... meh. How many BLMs do you see rolling Conserve MP builds and rocking the house? And every piece of gear you swap Conserve TP onto is another piece that isn't improving the weapon skill damage.

Yes, I'm fairly negative about the update on this. I'd say my opinion is that DRG got some goodies, but the best goodies come from /SAM and not from DRG/. We're not as shafted as NIN or SCH, but this isn't anything game-changing like what DNC is getting.

And besides, we'll still be viewed as a merit party job, and inferior to SAMs in all ways 8D
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-17 14:21:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sylph.Spiriel said:
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
I think everyone knows Barone/Conte does nothing to Super Jump, would take a fool to believe that lol. What I'm saying is it would be great to see Spirit Jump affected by it :O
Which again assumes Spirit Jump (a decidedly non-physical sounding name) is a physical attack at all. As far as a conserve TP build... meh. How many BLMs do you see rolling Conserve MP builds and rocking the house? And every piece of gear you swap Conserve TP onto is another piece that isn't improving the weapon skill damage. Yes, I'm fairly negative about the update on this. I'd say my opinion is that DRG got some goodies, but the best goodies come from /SAM and not from DRG/. We're not as shafted as NIN or SCH, but this isn't anything game-changing like what DNC is getting. And besides, we'll still be viewed as a merit party job, and inferior to SAMs in all ways 8D

Well Conserve TP has some decent pieces to swap for a weapons skill, Blitzers with Conserve and Acc+ or Crit dmg +, whichever you have a higher build of, is nice for drakes, considering the STR already on it.
The aesir ear pendant with +3/ +6(Dynamis mostly) can swap out for Ethereal since Aesir does have +7 attack. and our new trait, can be interesting to run parsers and check it out, do some testing.

Spirit Jump, I agree, could potentially be a magic based on possibly Wyvern's current HP ? Spirit Link gives your Wyvern HP to sacrifice yours, Maybe Spirit Jump does damage sacrificing your Wyvern's HP ? Plausable I think.

Inferior? I run a dynamis shell with very nice geared Sam's parse every run, and I always win :D Never think Drg is inferior to any job, especially SAM.
With the right build, Drg can tear apart anything and everything.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 14:29:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
Blitzers with Conserve and Acc or Crit dmg , whichever you have a higher build of, is nice for drakes, considering the STR already on it.
You're joking, right?
Quote:
The aesir ear pendant with 3/ 6(Dynamis mostly) can swap out for Ethereal since Aesir does have 7 attack. and our new trait, can be interesting to run parsers and check it out, do some testing.
Same, but to a lesser extent... traits like Conserve TP get weaker as you stack them, it will be a weaker piece rather than a stronger one in the future. Not even sure how it stacks up versus Triumph at the moment tbh, needs data on proc rate/mechanics.
 Sylph.Spiriel
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spiriel
Posts: 148
By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-06-17 14:30:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Oh, I know DRG isn't inferior. I parsed a few Dynamis runs and Limbus runs and was quite pleased to find I was coming out in the top 10-20% of the crowd. But we're stuck with the lolDRG stigma.

A friend asked me to speculate about Spirit Jump, and another thought crossed my mind. Somewhere I saw something saying that Aisha: Ichi is going to be Pax (reduced enmity generated) for NIN. Maybe Spirit Jump is going to be a way for DRGs to give people in our party a Pax effect, made stronger by having our wyvern out? Or maybe only giving Pax to ourselves? That's what "suppressing enmity" sounds like to me now. We have enough enmity toys with High Jump and Super Jump to make it plausible. Look at Super Jump under 2hr, we take hate off ourselves and someone else.

I think SE's perspective on DRG is "not the leader, but enhances everyone else." 2hr'd Super Jump takes enmity off someone else. Angon lowers the mob's defense. DRG/Mage can heal the party, and they already said they're looking at giving melee subs healing breath. Letting us give people in our party Pax would fit within a lot of what we're already doing now. Enhancing damage while keeping hate down.

Edit: Yeah, the more I think about this, the more confident I am. I can see this making DRGs much more viable in a zerg/endgame situation. Throw a DRG into the tank party and the healers can cure-bomb like there's no tomorrow. Have them buffing your biggest DDs and they can hit harder without going down first. If Spirit Jump = Pax for parties, I'm cool with it.

Double Edit: "Delivers a short jumping attack." So, no party Pax : < Think it's plausible that it may be a weak jump and self-Pax though. With that fast recast, maybe 10 second duration on it? Enough to Spirit Jump and WS.
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-17 15:45:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
Blitzers with Conserve and Acc or Crit dmg , whichever you have a higher build of, is nice for drakes, considering the STR already on it.
You're joking, right?
Quote:
The aesir ear pendant with 3/ 6(Dynamis mostly) can swap out for Ethereal since Aesir does have 7 attack. and our new trait, can be interesting to run parsers and check it out, do some testing.
Same, but to a lesser extent... traits like Conserve TP get weaker as you stack them, it will be a weaker piece rather than a stronger one in the future. Not even sure how it stacks up versus Triumph at the moment tbh, needs data on proc rate/mechanics.


Joking? Not really, after some paring using the +7 on Blitzer and +6 on aesir when in dynamis. I've seen returns of 31% TP after dropping a Drakesbane.
This was happening roughly 1/10 ws's I would use.
So I'd like to see how much more the trait would add.
Although because of the two slots and what I was swapping out, Over an hour in a dynamis just slapping mobs, I was short roughly 4k dmg from ws's compared to using my actual weaponskill pieces.
So there's more I need to look into, but with the right set up, there's a chance this could prove effective.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 15:46:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
31 TP doesn't shave off a hit to WS, don't really see how that's worth noting. The number on each piece is tied to proc rate iirc.
 Ragnarok.Psyence
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Psyence
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-17 19:48:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I was leveling my BLU sub to 40 the other day and farming the missing spells. Being able to use Dispel, or even Gravity while soloing (or campaign battle, ofc) may prove to be quite useful... Off the top of my head, I can think about these situations when meeleeing Quadavs in CB and there's no RDM around and they do this move that DEF+ move that gimps my damage (and exp)... It's going to be nice not being dependent on other people's Dispel ability. /SCH had it, but it wasn't enough to make that sub useful much.
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: glaciont
Posts: 724
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2010-06-18 07:28:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Siren.Thoraeon said:
DRG/SAM gonna pwn

Jump
High Jump
Spirit Jump
Meditate
Sekkanoki
Spirit Link
Conserve TP

About time they gave good stuff to DRG.

Edit: I forgot, Spirit Jump has a 90 second delay which makes it far superior to High Jump.

When dragoons use the "Spirit Link" ability, half of their wyvern's TP will be transferred to them.

Duuuude, did DRG/SAM JUST out-class SAM xD? *** I can't wait to get back on the game and hit that ***up o-o
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-18 07:40:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
No. Your wyvern has to build up ~40 TP in the time you build 83 for the JA to be useful... and then you're reducing the accuracy of your elemental breaths along with sacrificing a small amount of TP phase damage due to JA delay. Finally, it's an MP sink unless you have a merit into Empathy and swap out Homam Gambieras should you have them. Of the bonuses this update for DRG, that's easily the weakest.

Our raw TP gain with 3 damage jumps and Conserve TP (assuming it'll at least shave off a hit to WS when it procs) will be pretty impressive though.
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: glaciont
Posts: 724
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2010-06-18 07:49:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
No. Your wyvern has to build up ~40 TP in the time you build 83 to be useful... and then you're reducing the accuracy of your elemental breaths along with sacrificing a small amount of TP phase damage due to JA delay. Finally, it's an MP sink unless you have a merit into Empathy and swap out Homam Gambieras should you have them. Of the bonuses this update for DRG, that's easily the weakest.

Our raw TP gain with 3 damage jumps and Conserve TP (assuming it'll at least shave off a hit to WS when it procs) will be pretty impressive though.

:o I guess, it's more for fun then?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-18 07:53:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah. I might pop it when /mage if I'm not using Healing Breath too much, but in high haste environments the JA is probably not going to perform well.
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: glaciont
Posts: 724
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2010-06-18 07:57:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I wonder what the best solo sub for DRG is now, DRG/RDM looks sooo much sicker then /BLU... but then again @_@_@_@_@.... /BLU gets access to some more spells and traits
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-18 08:06:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Blu still feels like it would be the best option for Drg.
Considering it's almost instant casts and low mp consumption for spells, its beautiful.
And even though at Drg80/whm40 we will get to haste ourselves, its still like meh.

Although Drg99 can haste with both /rdm and refueling from /blu.
And much more options I'm sure.
But it all depends in the kind of things you like.
What gets me is the few stats here and there you can get from /blu from listing your spells.

EDIT: Totally just realized we would be able to refresh ourselves with /rdm ..
Hmmmm
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: glaciont
Posts: 724
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2010-06-18 08:18:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I usually use /WHM when I need the -na spells, for everything else it's /BLU. With Haste though it might seem more interesting to play /WHM more especially against mobs that spam slow.

And whoa, your right. /BLU will turn out to be the master sub when we hit 99. It's going to be interesting the kind of stuff we'll be able to solo post 75

Ahhhh not till next update xD

*Edited to respond to edit*
 Cerberus.Alzeroth
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Alzeroth
Posts: 390
By Cerberus.Alzeroth 2010-06-18 08:27:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
My First attempt as Drg99/Blu49 will be laying the smackdown on Jormy.
It's going to be really interesting to see how everything plays out. Hopefully down the road we see Drg able to get some sort of "Tame" ability on the Dragon family mobs.
And yes I'm talking about pimpin Jormungand onto the battlefield lol.

It's farfetched, but its a nice thought :D
 Lakshmi.Glaciont
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: glaciont
Posts: 724
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2010-06-18 09:34:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lol i got a feeling that some things we still won't be able to solo...

I on the other hand will go back to soloing the Ajattara In Grauberg :D.
 Phoenix.Darki
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Darki
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-06-18 09:37:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
what level is blu getting dual wield? i read something like that on other thread. not sure if its true :o
 Ragnarok.Tuvae
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Tuvae
Posts: 1277
By Ragnarok.Tuvae 2010-06-18 09:38:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Darki said:
what level is blu getting dual wield? i read something like that on other thread. not sure if its true :o


????????????
 Bismarck.Rellz
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Relleum
Posts: 602
By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-06-18 09:38:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Darki said:
what level is blu getting dual wield? i read something like that on other thread. not sure if its true :o
I was hearing blu getting dual wield in future update after 80 but as of now its only from nin sub
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-18 12:03:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Darki said:
what level is blu getting dual wield? i read something like that on other thread. not sure if its true :o
We don't know if we're getting DW at all. They were talking about possibly giving it to us as a native trait at Vanafest, but nothing's come of that so far.
Cerberus.Alzeroth said:
Blu still feels like it would be the best option for Drg.
Considering it's almost instant casts and low mp consumption for spells, its beautiful.
And even though at Drg80/whm40 we will get to haste ourselves, its still like meh.

Although Drg99 can haste with both /rdm and refueling from /blu.
And much more options I'm sure.
But it all depends in the kind of things you like.
What gets me is the few stats here and there you can get from /blu from listing your spells.

EDIT: Totally just realized we would be able to refresh ourselves with /rdm ..
Hmmmm
/BLU's defensive options are generally superior and the spells are cheaper, but Haste is better than Refueling. That said, having to trigger Healing Breath more slows you down... /BLU will still be preferable for the most part, though /RDM will have some uses.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-06-18 18:35:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I have a few questions before I level /BLU.

I'd like to add that my BLU is currently level 5 and I know next to nothing about the job.

Theses days I generally only use defensive subs for Campaign rank ups. I'm assuming the main draws of /blu are instant cast low cost spells/stuns along with buffs such as cocoon?

Also I think having no native Reraise [having to use an item/earring/gorget etc] would bother the hell out of me.

MP isn't/shouldn't be an issue with 4 MP merits and Ethereal earring.

With /WHM getting haste and /RDM getting haste + refresh, will /BLU still be the end all definitive defensive/solo sub as the level capped is raised?

TL;DR [too long; don't read] version: I have yet to level /BLU, I think I'll miss reraise, convince me to level /BLU or not to.

All feedback, comments and information are appreciated. Thank you for your time.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-06-18 20:34:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
bump
 Odin.Lowblow
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: sKe7ch
Posts: 489
By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-18 20:50:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
People are under estimating the updates.

If you are preparing for a boss zerg of any sort.

Drg/sam ~ HEre would be my break down.

Meditate up to 200.
Sekkanoki.
Angon > Ws > Ws > Jump > high > spirit jump > spirit link > Ws > 2hr > Jump > high > Spirit jump > Ws > Meditate > ws
And with hate/songs and your 2hr active you tp Very very fast and will get another 3-5 in before 2hr wears.
Also you can pop an icarus during your zerg for another 2hr ws.

That is roughly 10 ws's in 30seconds of yummyniess. :)
That is also a rough estimate of ws's without accounting for conserve tp kicking in.

+ your Tping + Jumps :D enjoy


edit : of course you would med to 300 and do a 100tp and 200tp ws :D
Log in to post.