Haste Is NOT Exponential...
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Haste is NOT exponential...
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Sylph.Vincentius said:
Unless you're absolutely incompetent when it comes to actually conveying your message, I understood what you meant just fine. You just don't want to admit it's as simple as I've said.
Well English is my 2nd language but i think i conveyed it fine.
haste lowers delay in a 100% linear manner.
Delay effects your rate of attacks in an exponential manner.
Haste, therefor, is not exponential itself. It is merely a factor used to lower delay. Delay is the exponential factor that rises to a greater damage return based off accelerating attack speed returns.
Saying haste is exponential implies that the effect haste has on delay will increase with every 1% added. This is not the case though. A 500 delay weapon with 1% haste has a reduction of 5 delay. 24% haste would have a reduction of 120. 25% would be 125. Thus every 1% haste lowers delay by 5, meaning haste is linear. It's delay that is not linear. It's effect on rate of attacks is what gives exponential returns.
I like how you never denied your ninja edit
You keep overlooking the word I'm using to try to make you understand this.
I'm saying the GAINS from adding more haste are exponential. Do you agree with or deny this?
I'm saying the GAINS from adding more haste are exponential. Do you agree with or deny this?
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
I like how you never denied your ninja edit
I constantly edit my posts from the time i make them til about 2 mins after they're posted because my english ISNT perfect, and I want to alleviate communication errors.
And for the record, before you edited it, you did say 25% haste was a 50% increase in attack speed.
Actually, for the record what i said, or tried to say was the 125 delay reduction was a 50% reduction in relation to the delay netted from using 50% haste.
No no, let's not go back to something previous, answer my question.
Sylph.Vincentius said:
You keep overlooking the word I'm using to try to make you understand this.
I'm saying the GAINS from adding more haste are exponential. Do you agree with or deny this?
I'm saying the GAINS from adding more haste are exponential. Do you agree with or deny this?
Why the *** can't this game just be simple anymore
Acc and /THF. DUN!
Acc and /THF. DUN!
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Why the *** can't this game just be simple anymore
Acc and /THF. DUN!
Acc and /THF. DUN!
That is simple. Simply eeeeeeeeeew.
And honestly, the game can be simple. These calculations can be taken into account, and used to get a baseline grip on how to perform better. You don't need to be a mathaholic day in and day out to be absolutely the best. It's not as hard as it looks.
This thread is just about semantics, and it's lulz.
idc what you tried, to say, I'm telling you what you did say and then tried to say that you did not say.
Vincent, in a way, yes. It's not limited to haste though. Dual wield, for example, has the exact same effect on attack speed because it reduces delay. I wouldn't say the "Gains" of haste result in exponential damage, cuz that would be incorrect. The lower delay, yes. Because it's delay's formula that nets these returns. Haste merely lowers your base delay.
So yea, without haste you wont get the returns obviously. But thats because your delay is higher. If you didn't have haste at all, and SE magically decided to drop the delay on every weapon in the game to 60, the returns would be exponential. There isnt haste involved at that point. It is merely an effect of delay. Does haste lower delay? Yes. Is it an exponential factor itself? No.
So i agree and disagree.
So yea, without haste you wont get the returns obviously. But thats because your delay is higher. If you didn't have haste at all, and SE magically decided to drop the delay on every weapon in the game to 60, the returns would be exponential. There isnt haste involved at that point. It is merely an effect of delay. Does haste lower delay? Yes. Is it an exponential factor itself? No.
So i agree and disagree.
I'm not saying that by itself it's exponential. I think that's where most people aren't connecting here, because haste isn't exponential when you look at it on it's own. Too bad you can't just look at haste on it's own.
Looking at Haste by itself, of course you're right. However, Haste does effect your delay, and gives you an exponential GAIN in the end. All things in this game tie together, and when it comes to haste, it's a part of your delay calculations.
Basically what I'm saying is that looking at haste by itself can't be applied here. It effects other things (delay) and in turn will give you an exponential gain in the end when it comes to attacking, which is pretty much the message that's trying to be conveyed here.
Looking at Haste by itself, of course you're right. However, Haste does effect your delay, and gives you an exponential GAIN in the end. All things in this game tie together, and when it comes to haste, it's a part of your delay calculations.
Basically what I'm saying is that looking at haste by itself can't be applied here. It effects other things (delay) and in turn will give you an exponential gain in the end when it comes to attacking, which is pretty much the message that's trying to be conveyed here.
The issue is that for the last year or so since the Haste craze has been going on, pretty much EVERYONE from BG was just spouting off "ZOMG HASTE IS EXPONENTIAL!!" which is wrong.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
So they left out a couple words. Who really gives that much of a ***?
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
And we understand what we need to about Haste, no? Adding more is better most of the time.
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
And we understand what we need to about Haste, no? Adding more is better most of the time.
Well, haste effects delay in a strictly linear manner. I fully support your comment that implies its difficult to look at it on its on, however. Most people just assume haste is the only factor at work because they don't care enough to bother looking into it. I'm the opposite, I like looking into the mechanics. I barely play the game these days, I just discuss it and such lol, like most the active ppl on this forum.
Delay is lowered by haste in a linear manner, but delay itself has an exponential return on attack speed. That's the only thing I tried to clear up from the beginning, lol. Yes, by haste lowering delay in a linear manner it allows delay to net a larger return. You can link haste INDIRECTLY to the returns, but you can never attribute the returns to haste itself. It's merely a product of decreasing delay. Cause and effect, like you said, is a reasonable way to word it. Haste may be the cause of the lowered delay, but its not the reason why you gain exponential (increasing) returns. Because haste in itself is linear.
Delay is lowered by haste in a linear manner, but delay itself has an exponential return on attack speed. That's the only thing I tried to clear up from the beginning, lol. Yes, by haste lowering delay in a linear manner it allows delay to net a larger return. You can link haste INDIRECTLY to the returns, but you can never attribute the returns to haste itself. It's merely a product of decreasing delay. Cause and effect, like you said, is a reasonable way to word it. Haste may be the cause of the lowered delay, but its not the reason why you gain exponential (increasing) returns. Because haste in itself is linear.
Caitsith.Linear said:
The issue is that for the last year or so since the Haste craze has been going on, pretty much EVERYONE from BG was just spouting off "ZOMG HASTE IS EXPONENTIAL!!" which is wrong.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
Sylph.Vincentius said:
So they left out a couple words. Who really gives that much of a ***?
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
They have gone as far as attacking other players in other threads because of this. That's why this discussion was brought up.
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Vincentius said:
So they left out a couple words. Who really gives that much of a ***?
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
They have gone as far as attacking other players in other threads because of this. That's why this discussion was brought up.
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Well, haste effects delay in a strictly linear manner. I fully support your comment that implies its difficult to look at it on its on, however. Most people just assume haste is the only factor at work because they don't care enough to bother looking into it. I'm the opposite, I like looking into the mechanics. I barely play the game these days, I just discuss it and such lol, like most the active ppl on this forum.
Delay is lowered by haste in a linear manner, but delay itself has an exponential return on attack speed. That's the only thing I tried to clear up from the beginning, lol. Yes, by haste lowering delay in a linear manner it allows delay to net a larger return. You can link haste INDIRECTLY to the returns, but you can never attribute the returns to haste itself. It's merely a product of decreasing delay. Cause and effect, like you said, is a reasonable way to word it. Haste may be the cause of the lowered delay, but its not the reason why you gain exponential (increasing) returns. Because haste in itself is linear.
Delay is lowered by haste in a linear manner, but delay itself has an exponential return on attack speed. That's the only thing I tried to clear up from the beginning, lol. Yes, by haste lowering delay in a linear manner it allows delay to net a larger return. You can link haste INDIRECTLY to the returns, but you can never attribute the returns to haste itself. It's merely a product of decreasing delay. Cause and effect, like you said, is a reasonable way to word it. Haste may be the cause of the lowered delay, but its not the reason why you gain exponential (increasing) returns. Because haste in itself is linear.
And we're to the point where we agree. Wasn't too hard to get there. I think we all agree in the end, it's just sometimes annoying to admit we're all right and just wording things differently. It's all a matter of perspective, yo.
Off to bed now, thanks for the chat. You can let down your guard now too, lol.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Vincentius said:
So they left out a couple words. Who really gives that much of a ***?
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
It's gains are exponential. It's really just nitpicking at that point.
They have gone as far as attacking other players in other threads because of this. That's why this discussion was brought up.
I wasn't the one who mentioned your name here lol. It's mainly some of the others who the person mentioned. You at least try to prove your points, they just flame people.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
The issue is that for the last year or so since the Haste craze has been going on, pretty much EVERYONE from BG was just spouting off "ZOMG HASTE IS EXPONENTIAL!!" which is wrong.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
Because I stopped reading at like, page 5 and you were still saying it around then iirc. I was pretty much assuming page 6~14 was the same *** ***over and over again like nearly every other flame thread on these boards.
Most of which you take part in and repeat the same ***over again, without change. behavior tends to repeat itself. Forgive me for making assumptions based on past experience.
Caitsith.Linear said:
Because I stopped reading at like, page 5 and you were still saying it around then iirc. I was pretty much assuming page 6~14 was the same *** ***over and over again like nearly every other flame thread on these boards.
Actually, probably about 1/4 of the pages 6-14 were lighthearted random spam and banter. I think i even took part in some of it, lol. The debate started back up like last night i guess. I logged in today and saw it going again.
Caitsith.Linear said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
The issue is that for the last year or so since the Haste craze has been going on, pretty much EVERYONE from BG was just spouting off "ZOMG HASTE IS EXPONENTIAL!!" which is wrong.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
That's pretty much what this entire thread is about, and Tiger, Raen and Night keep saying Haste is exponential.
EDIT: Exponential looks weird in all caps.
Because I stopped reading at like, page 5 and you were still saying it around then iirc. I was pretty much assuming page 6~14 was the same *** ***over and over again like nearly every other flame thread on these boards.
Most of which you take part in and repeat the same ***over again, without change. behavior tends to repeat itself. Forgive me for making assumptions based on past experience.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Well, you assume like an idiot
That's just gonna make it worse >.>
Shoulda cut it off at "Well, you assumed." lol
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Well, you assume like an idiot
That's just gonna make it worse >.>
Shoulda cut it off at "Well, you assumed." lol
For that matter, why is my name in there, or Raenryong's? I'm not gonna go back and check Raen's posts, but I've never said it's exponential. I doubt he did either.
I don't think I said that word either, I just showed math to show the actual % increase in damage.
Assuming repetitive behavior is going to be repeated is being an idiot? Are YOU and idiot?
By the way, how many threads has it been since you're last dead cat joke? You can't seem to go though a thread without one.
By the way, how many threads has it been since you're last dead cat joke? You can't seem to go though a thread without one.
Apparently, since you were wrong.
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